This version of Wittenberg is now the legal national forum for Talossa! Feel free to explore it, and to check out the threads for feedback, requests and criticisms to make sure Wittenberg is tailored to you.

Author Topic: Fifth Covenant - Inadvertent Reversion  (Read 401 times)

Offline Viteu

  • Puisne Justice of the Uppermost Court
  • Citizen
  • Posts: 102
  • emper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit
    • Talossan since: 2006

    • View Profile
Fifth Covenant - Inadvertent Reversion
« on: January 12, 2021, 03:16:38 PM »
I wanted to bring the following to the Ziu’s attention.  I went to check a covenant while preparing a response to Meistra in the Legal Committee thread, and it occurred to me that we accidentally overrode a covenant when adopting the 2017 Organic Law.
 
The Fifth Covenant, pre-50RZ26, read as follows:

Any person charged with an offence shall be presumed innocent until proven guilty, and has the right to request information on his legal rights. No accused person shall be twice put in jeopardy of life, liberty, or property for the same offence, or without due process of law; nor shall any citizen be compelled in any criminal case to bear witness against himself. Excessive fines, and cruel and bizarre punishments, shall not be inflicted.

The Due Process Amendment, 50RZ26, modified that language to:

No person shall be deprived life, liberty, or property without due process of law, nor denied equal protection of law. Any person charged with an offense must be informed of their legal rights upon seizure by the government, and must be presumed innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. No person shall be subject to answer to the same criminal offense after the criminal charge has been properly adjudicated in a court of law, nor shall any person be compelled in any criminal case to bear witness against himself, nor shall any person be subjected to excessive fines, nor shall any person be subjected cruel and unusual punishment. The Ziu shall have the power to enforce this Covenant by appropriate legislation.

The Still Into This Amendment, 53RZ18, reverted this back to the pre-Due Process Amendment language.  Hence, the old Covenant appears to have been replaced upon adoption of the 2017 Org Law, and is current recorded in same.    I’m assuming this was inadvertent because Ian P. co-sponsored 50RZ26.  Hence, it appears we overlooked this and, I’d wager, it was intended for the 2017 Org Law to not change this Covenant. 

Although I encourage another to do so, I will draft a bill to fix this, which I hope should not be controversial, in a week or so.
Viteu Marcianüs
Judge of the Uppermost Cort

Online Miestră Schivă, UrN

  • Prime Minister
  • Citizen
  • Posts: 960
  • Large and In Charge
    • Talossan since: 2004-06-12

    • View Profile
    • Free Democrats of Talossa
Re: Fifth Covenant - Inadvertent Reversion
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2021, 03:56:54 PM »
Man, it's embarrassing to get a reminder of how little the Ziu (me included) actually reads this stuff.  :(


Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Talossa. Ask me anything.
JOIN THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA - ask me how!

"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Online GV

  • Citizen
  • Posts: 327
    • View Profile
Re: Fifth Covenant - Inadvertent Reversion
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2021, 10:43:38 AM »
Man, it's embarrassing to get a reminder of how little the Ziu (me included) actually reads this stuff.  :(

I'm as guilty as anyone, I fear.

Offline Viteu

  • Puisne Justice of the Uppermost Court
  • Citizen
  • Posts: 102
  • emper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit
    • Talossan since: 2006

    • View Profile
Re: Fifth Covenant - Inadvertent Reversion
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2021, 08:55:52 PM »
Man, it's embarrassing to get a reminder of how little the Ziu (me included) actually reads this stuff.  :(

I'm as guilty as anyone, I fear.

I'd ask this also get clarked.
Viteu Marcianüs
Judge of the Uppermost Cort

Online Miestră Schivă, UrN

  • Prime Minister
  • Citizen
  • Posts: 960
  • Large and In Charge
    • Talossan since: 2004-06-12

    • View Profile
    • Free Democrats of Talossa
Re: Fifth Covenant - Inadvertent Reversion
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2021, 12:26:55 AM »
I'm not sure I can Clark it unless you write it up in the form of a bill?

Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Talossa. Ask me anything.
JOIN THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA - ask me how!

"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Offline Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM

  • Secretary of State
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 318
  • Fraichetz dels punts, es non dels mürs
    • Talossan since: 9-23-2012

    • View Profile
Re: Fifth Covenant - Inadvertent Reversion
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2021, 10:17:54 AM »
Man, it's embarrassing to get a reminder of how little the Ziu (me included) actually reads this stuff.  :(

I'm as guilty as anyone, I fear.

I'd ask this also get clarked.

Is this a bill? In this threads current form I don’t see anything to Clark.
Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM
Secretary of State
Scribe of Abbavilla
Justice Emeritus of the Uppermost Cort
Dal Kingsbridge Pursuivant
Former Seneschal

Offline Viteu

  • Puisne Justice of the Uppermost Court
  • Citizen
  • Posts: 102
  • emper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit
    • Talossan since: 2006

    • View Profile
Re: Fifth Covenant - Inadvertent Reversion
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2021, 04:51:19 PM »
Man, it's embarrassing to get a reminder of how little the Ziu (me included) actually reads this stuff.  :(

I'm as guilty as anyone, I fear.

I'd ask this also get clarked.

Is this a bill? In this threads current form I don’t see anything to Clark.

This is on me. I said I'd submit a bill and never got around to it. I'll throw something together
Viteu Marcianüs
Judge of the Uppermost Cort

Online Miestră Schivă, UrN

  • Prime Minister
  • Citizen
  • Posts: 960
  • Large and In Charge
    • Talossan since: 2004-06-12

    • View Profile
    • Free Democrats of Talossa
Re: Fifth Covenant - Inadvertent Reversion
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2021, 03:23:54 PM »
Let me know if you get stuck and I'll try to finish it

Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Talossa. Ask me anything.
JOIN THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA - ask me how!

"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan