WHEREAS it has been ten years (!!!), one month and 4 days since Lüc da Schir first posted on Wittenberg, and

WHEREAS it has also been more than a fortnight since Lüc first posted following his re-introduction, and

WHEREAS he has in that time demonstrated an active, genuine, and longstanding interest in Talossan life, culture, and language, and

WHEREAS the above pre-cooked sentence is a massive understatement, and

WHEREAS Lüc has always remained a Talossan in our hearts, and

WHEREAS Italy beat Wales 22-21 in the 2022 Six Nations tournament, and

WHEREAS Lüc has been instrumental in editing the wiki, recreating the oversteir, developing new witt, taking the Senate seriously, leading the country, working across party lines, Talomat, Curantoina, exit polls, why hasn't he been made King doesn't he have a knightood yet, and

WHEREAS it's gonna take a lot to drag me away from you, and

WHEREAS will anyone remember to Mick this petition?, and

WHEREAS Lüc desires to regain his citizenship in the Kingdom of Talossa, now

THEREFORE I, Glüc da Dhi, a citizen in good standing of the Province of Cézembre and of the Kingdom of Talossa, do by these presents petition the Secretary of State @Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM  to issue a grant of citizenship to Lüc da Schir, as specified by law.


Petition submitted today, the 8th day of April 2022/XLIII.

_{Edit: pls tell me no one saw that...}

So I was thinking about not voting, but decided that I would vote, but then I forgot the deadline  :-[

Anyway, congrats to the winners. I havent followed Talossa very closely, but this sure seems like its a surprising, and actually sort of exciting, result. The close result and the potential change in government suggests there is still life left in Talossan politics. On the other hand I actually thought the final compromise bill was a solid proposal in the end, so Im slightly disappointed it is now declared dead. Props to Ian and the FreeDems for trying anyway.

Maybe I should have paid more attention and registered the KLüP again. Obviously I would have unduly tried to claim Lücs return as a major partisan victory, but he only told me about his return after the GE already started.

Good luck to whichever parties will form the next government.

Quote from: Ian Plätschisch on November 24, 2021, 12:43:55 PM
What if I made the statutes part of the bill

Well that would definitely be better than nothing (I generally think that if statutes are needed for an orglaw amendment to be functional, best practice is to include these in the bill instead of adding them later.)

but I would still urge you to consider at least putting the starting date (relative to the convocation being called) in the orglaw. For comparison, exact election dates are in there as well. And this is really important because it's going to have a large effect on the composition of the convocation. Do we really want a Ziu majority to be able to alter this during the same term as the convocation itself? This seems like exactly the kind of thing to anchor in the constitution.

Quote from: Viteu on November 12, 2021, 11:01:40 PM
"Before any vote for King is cast, the Conclave shall choose an Elector to serve as Herald in a manner it deems appropriate.  Within 96 hours of a vote for King ending, the Herald, the Secretary of State, and the Council of Regency shall, separately and independently of the other, count such votes, and the Herald, the Secretary of State, and the Council of Regency shall, separately and independently of the other, report one result to the Convocation.   After 96 hours, the vote for King is verified based on the vote count of the majority of timely reported results."

Also like this idea.

Some thoughts:

a Convocation shall be called by the Senior Judge of the Uppermost Cort, or in their absence the next available Judge in order of seniority"

Does that mean the Senior Judge shall also chair the convocation? If so, that should probably be explicitly mentioned. If there is to be some other arrangement, that should probably be mentioned as well.

Secondly, what exactly does it mean for a convocation to get called? Perhaps it would be good to include something like:
"Whenever a convocation is called by a judge, said judge shall submit to the Secretary of State a message to all eligible electors announcing the convocation and providing instructions on how and when to register to participate. Whenever the convocation is called by the Ziu, the Túischac'h shall submit this message instead. The convocation shall commence 14 days from the moment the convocation is called. Upon receiving the message the Secretary of State shall be responsible for communicating the message to all eligible electors." (or similar)

The deadline bit seems especially important to me. Under the current proposal, what is to stop the judge calling the convocation and then have the convocation commence immediately after the composition of registered electors seems favourable to them, or alternatively, postpone commencing when the composition seems unfavourable? And even assuming good faith, how does the convocation know when to commence?

I'm not a big fan of setting such things by statute as the monarchy (and therefore the convocation) seems integral to our constitutional framework. I'm also worried we will pass this and then when the times comes nobody will know how to proceed because no statute has been passed.

RZ3 - Per

RZ4 - Per
Apologies for not finding the motivation/time to defend this in the Cosa when it was the subject of discussion. I do think Citaxhien Miestră's words are true and I thank her for coming up with this proposal, which I do hope will indeed improve the quality of our law making. I also thank her for accepting my amendments which will ensure that certain categories of bills for which additional scrutiny is not as necessary can pass the Cosa at the same rate as before. Of course, in case of emergencies there is still the Seneschal bypass.

I will note this particular clause in the bill: "6.5.3. The CRL may create further committees to which their functions may be delegated, as concerns any bill or category of bills. Such a committee must have at least 3 members, including at least 1 MC and at least 1 Senator.". I do hope that the CRL will use this clause and actually form Ziu commitees on particular bill categories/topics.

RZ5 - Con
I truly do appreciate the efforts of the Minister of Finance to answer my questions, especially considering his engagements outside Talossa. I also think the budget is the responsibility of the entire government and not just one person. I can't however, vote in favour of this. There doesn't seem to be any basis for the figure of 200$ as income from sales/donations this year and no (publicly available) government plan to reach that amount. There are no details on the registered agent plan and s;reu Tresplet does not seem to be around to tell us. This is important because there may be long term costs involved with this and the Ziu should really know what these are before acceding to this. Perhaps the government has inside information and plans about this that werent mentioned in the budget thread. I hope this is the case, but as I'm not part of the government I cannot just vote blindly on that hope.

RZ6 - Per

VoC - Non
I suppose since I'm voting against the budget this is the logical conclusion. Assuming the government will succeed in passing the budget regardless of my vote maybe I'll abstain again or vote per next time, depending on the government performance.

So if I understand S;reu Perþonest correctly, about 50 usd was raised in stamp sales/donations last year.

On what basis does the government think it is realistic that 200 dollars will be raised this term (noting that a cosa term is less than a year)?

Also, what is the government's plan regarding the stamps now that it turns out 50 dollars for stamps may not be feasible?

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on September 22, 2021, 04:39:05 PM, The Legislative Process Improvement Bill #1 (that's the version with Glüc's amendments)

If it helps, here: https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=752.msg8345#msg8345 is a version that also includes the original whereas clauses.

Also, if possible (and if Miestră agrees) I'd like to added as a cosponsor to that one.

WHEREAS the quality of legislation passed by the Ziu of our Kingdom has always been of questionable quality, given not only the volunteer, part-time nature of our MCs and Senators, but also of the lack of "professional" legal advisers to proofread amateurishly-written bills;

AND WHEREAS the Hopper itself was an early attempt to improve the process; but has always been hampered by the disinterest or forgetfulness of MCs and Senators in reading legislation until it is Clarked, by which stage it is too late for amendments;

AND WHEREAS the last Cosa brought in la Comità da Redacziun Lexhislatïu (CRL) to streamline this process, but this body simply did not function in the last Cosa;

AND WHEREAS even if the CRL functions as foreseen in this Cosa, it does not solve the large problem mentioned above, that MCs and Senators do not pay attention to the details of bills until after they are Clarked;

AND WHEREAS the idea of a system of "multiple readings" of legislation before they become law has been raised in the past;

AND WHEREAS the incoming Attorney-General and Túischac'h have agreed on this proposal, which will require a form of "first reading", whereby bills will need a affirmative majority of both houses (along the same lines as a Túischac'h election) to go to the CRL, and subsequently cannot go to Clark for 30 days unless the CRL gives its affirmative say-so;

AND WHEREAS at the very, very worst this bill will only mean a 30-day delay in Clarking bills;

AND WHEREAS there is still an "escape hatch" for cases of legislative urgency, in the provisions of Organic Law VII.6: "The Seneschál shall have the right at his discretion to withdraw any legislative proposal from the Hopper and instruct the Secretary of State to treat it as a properly submitted bill"; and also in the provision for Prime Dictates;

AND WHEREAS a future reform, whereby the Cosă and Senäts will vote separately on legislation to allow even more opportunity for scrutiny and debate, may be presented later in this Cosă term, whether this bill passes or not;


BE IT ENACTED by the King, Cosă and Senäts of Talossa in Ziu assembled that

1.  El Lexhatx H.6 shall be replaced in its entirety as follows:

Quote6. No bill may be published in a Clark unless it has passed the Hopper, as provided in this section.

6.1.  All citizens of Talossa are entitled to participate fully in discussions and debates in the Hopper, within the bounds of law and of the decisions of the administering and presiding authorities of the Hopper. Any citizen may submit a draft of legislation to the Hopper, though these shall not be considered to be "legislative proposals" until sponsored by one or more individuals authorised to submit legislative proposals under Organic Law VII.5.

6.2 A bill has passed the hopper if it has spent at least 10 days in the Hopper, and is exclusively limited to the following:
6.2.1 Non-binding proclamations that have no effect other than express the wish of the Cosa, Senate, or Ziu as a whole, in which case the bill must contain the words "Sense of the Cosa", "Sense of the Senate" or "Sense of the Ziu" in its title.
6.2.2. Proclamations that establish the position of the Ziu on a foreign policy issue.
6.2.3. Establishment of a committee that has no powers other than advisory powers and whose recommendations must still be approved by the Ziu in order to be binding and making appointments to such a committee.
6.2.4. Appointments to functions that are already defined in law and for which the Ziu is explicitly allowed to make appointments according to law.
6.2.5. Any decision which the law explicitly allows the Ziu to make without the bill containing such a decision having to go through committee.
6.2.6 Removing a regent or consenting to the re-appointment of a regent in accordance with Org.II.5
6.2.7 Revoking a Prime Dictate
6.2.8 Notices of reprimand in accordance with Org.VIII.5
6.2.9. The granting or restoration of citizenship

6.3. A bill has passed the hopper if it has spent at least 10 days in the Hopper and at least half of the Senators and 2/3 of Cosă seats express their support in the Hopper for clarking the bill.

6.4. After a legislative proposal has spent at least 10 days in the Hopper, its proposer may request that it "move to committee". No bill may be Clarked without being "moved to committee", except as provided by Lex.H.6.2 or Lex.H.6.3.

6.5. A Legislative Advisory Committee of Talossa (in Talossan, el Comità da Redacziun Legislatïu; and hereinafter, "the CRL") shall review or revise all legislative items from the Hopper once they have moved to committee; and may recommend acceptance or rejection, or suggest amendments in their best judgment.
6.5.1 The CRL shall conduct all its deliberations openly in the Hopper.
6.5.2 The CRL shall consist of the incumbent Mençéi, Túischac'h, and Avocat-Xheneral.
6.5.3. The CRL may create further committees to which their functions may be delegated, as concerns any bill or category of bills. Such a committee must have at least 3 members, including at least 1 MC and at least 1 Senator.

6.6. After the CRL has given its recommendation, or if it gives no recommendation within 30 days of the bill having passed to committee, the bill has passed the hopper and the sponsor of the bill may ask for it to be Clarked, with or without amendments.
6.6.1 The same bill can not be submitted to the Clark more than once in the same Cosa, unless the original bill was vetoed, the original bill had been retired or voted down by its main sponsor during the voting period, or the bill has been substantially amended, as judged by the Secretary of State.
6.6.2. Bills must be submitted to the Secretary of State more than 24 hours before the publication of the Clark. Bills received less than 24 hours before publication of the Clark shall be published in the next Clark or postponed for one Clark, at the Secretary of State's discretion.

6.7. The Secretary of State is empowered to refuse to put a certain bill on a Clark if said bill;
6.7.1. appears to him to be obviously on its face inorganic, or to have such grave errors as would make it ineffective and/or require further legislation or a Prime Dictate to make it effective.
6.7.2. does not specify exactly the Law(s) or Article(s) which it seeks to amend, change, or repeal, if the bill seeks to amend, change, or repeal any Article of the Organic Law or any Law
6.7.3. is not clearly typed or word-processed; and/or
6.7.4. is so substantially different from its form as a legislative proposal when "passed to committee" that it constitutes a significantly different proposal.
6.7.5. has not passed the hopper or is deemed by the sponsor to have passed the hopper in accordance with Lex.H.6.2. but is in the judgement of the Secretary of State not limited exclusively limited to the items listed in Lex.H.6.2.
6.7.6. Any such decision shall be subject to judicial review.

6.8. All bills submitted for the Clark shall be in one of the national languages.

6.9. The Secretary of State shall remove legislative proposals from "The Hopper" at the request of the author.
6.9.1 If a legislative proposal has remained in the "The Hopper" for more than 59 days, it shall be considered to have been removed, though any person entitled to do so may subsequently re-publish it.

6.10. Notwithstanding the rules about a bill's eligibility to be Clarked, if no bill was submitted to the Clark at the moment of publication, the Secretary of State shall be allowed to add to the Clark a simple bill asking for Quorum where Cosa Members and Senators can vote to confirm their presence for the Clark.

6.11. The Secretary of State is under no obligation to create a permanent record of legislative proposals in "The Hopper."

2.Lex.G.11.4. is amended to read:

Quote11.4. Retired status can be revoked only in the event of a conviction by a Talossan Court for misconduct while serving in a judicial capacity. In the event of such conviction, revocation of retirement privileges shall be contained as part of the sentencing order. Retired status can also be revoked by the Ziu through majority vote, without needing to go through committee, and approval by the Monarch. Such legislative action can be taken only after the retiree has been convicted by a Talossan Court for misconduct while serving in a judicial capacity and only after all appeals have been exhausted.

3. Lex.H.25.1 is amended to read:

Quote25.1 Members who cannot attend will not be denied the right to vote on that month's Clark. They may send their votes to the Secretary of State by any means feasible, so that they can be announced at the Living Cosâ. A member may, in writing, delegate his authority to vote (temporarily transfer his seats) to another person who can attend the Living Cosâ, but no individual may hold more than thirty seats, counting both proxy and permanently assigned seats, for purposes of the Living Cosâ. The Ziu may provide by law, without needing to go through committee, for quorum requirements, and for attendance via telephone, videoconference, or other remote means.

4. Lex.C.1.2.2.2. is amended to read:

Quote1.2.2.2. Other questions on the Talossan Census shall be identical to the questions on the last census. These questions may be changed by the Chancery, either of its own volition or on request from the Seneschal, but any changes shall be approved by the Ziu, without needing to go through committee. These questions will be marked as optional, and at no time shall a citizen be forced or required to respond to an optional question.

5. El Lexhatx H.7, H.11, H.12 and H.13 are hereby deleted in their entirety, and Title H of El Lexhatx will subsequently be renumbered.

How many commemorative stamps would be produced for this amount?

Can you expand a bit more on the registered agent bit? How much would this cost us yearly?

How much was the income of donations and Talossaware sale since the previous budget?

Is there any link available to the latest financial report?

Quote from: Ian Plätschisch on September 20, 2021, 10:03:26 PM
I really do appreciate the comedy here, so do not take this the wrong way, but the LCC bill is very likely to be put to a vote in some form, so how do you feel about it?

I suppose that depends on the "some form" bit. What did you think of my suggestions in that thread?

Whereas blah blah blah, and

Whereas in a distant future Talossa needs a King Lüc, and

Whereas that requires a mechanism to elect a new King, and

Whereas a plain elected head of state is only a president, and

Whereas some inbetween form is needed that preserves the dignity of the monarchy and allows the people the right to fix broken Kings, and

Whereas it's not clear what will happen to the LCC bill, and

Whereas it's not clear whether the current LCC can be supported in its final bill, and

Whereas it might be good to have a backup alternative, and

Whereas there is a good chance this bill will never be clarked and the KLüP will support the LCC initiative instead, but that sort of depends on where that bill is going, now


Therefore

an amendment to the OrgLaw that  creates a convocation to be called every 7 10 8.0833333 years

OR

whenever we are left without a monarch for some other reason

consisting of
all Justices of the UC;
all provincial heads of government;
all officers of the Royal Civil Service;
all Talossans who have been a citizen for at least ten years

which shall propose a new King according to some formal explicitly defined procedure

also fancy wigs and knee breaches requirements


Uréu q'estadra så:
Glüc da Dhi, MC - KLüP