Quote from: Béneditsch Ardpresteir on May 27, 2021, 12:51:33 AM
I fail to understand why the 'Republicans' had to rejoin the Kingdom.

The only reason that comes to mind - to destroy the social fabric of the nation and claim it for themselves; and go down in history as the Liberatadors ;)

Your emoticon is noted.  ;-) 

It is also clear you've never read the greatest Witt thread in Talossan history:
https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=810.msg6332#msg6332 in which I describe in full the grievances I have against Herr Lupul, though I have to offer the caveat he never did anything 'bad' to me personally.  Until my welfare-check call to him last October, I had always thought he and I had gotten along reasonably well.

I would suggest to us all to remember in another twenty years' time, there will be no-one in Talossa who will care about any of this.  This is not a bad thing.

Whether he continues as monarch is not the real question.

The real question is our form of government and whether we want to hold *all* our officials periodically accountable. 

This includes our Head of State.

The Free Democrats of Talossa have the answer: the seven-year monarchial term as enshrined in the Historic Compromise, holding all monarchs of Talossa, present and future, accountable for the quality and competency of their work in office.

Vote for a better Talossa.  VOTEZ FREEDEMS!

GV, Senator - Fiôvâ

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mKDpy9G98vQK9c6wJcK_O86yL1FHbbEw/view?usp=sharing

For the first time in Talossan history, the Big History in its familiar 1994 / 2002 Xerox Party Copy edition is a text-editable document.  Additionally, it has received a beautiful new legible treatment as well as name-translations via the 9th Edition of the Talossan Book of Names.

I'm quite sure there are some squirlies to be found, but I am truly jazzed to see this come to fruition.  Take a look at this document and find out why I call it a 'Comprehensive Edition'.  Enjoy!

My first foray into Talossa was my first Wittenberg post on or about 6 June 2000.  At this time, there was only one award of any consequence, Për la Naziun, and its awarding was rare.  When it happened, it was a big deal.  With 'awards and honours', I think Ben hit the right medium between outright stinginess and the sillier aspects of 'SCA-bling'.

According to the Big History (1992 corrected in 1994), the first honoree of PLN mentioned is Jorja B., the mother of Josh Forziun (M----t) followed by Josh's stepfather (whose name is not mentioned), and finally followed by Josh himself.  This was for taking Ben for stitches after Harry Woz. accidentally nailed Ben right below the eye on a lake-pier.

Years later, in 1994, the award was made again, this time to JJ, for services rendered as Seneschál and really to Talossan in general.  JJ was an enormous part of Talossa's development, and while he and Ben were best buddies, the objectivity of JJ's Për La Naziun cannot be in doubt: his award was richly deserved.

The deservedness of Kane dal Nava's Për la Naziun in 2000 has been proven dubious, but this is clear: Ben was the one person in Talossa empowered to make this award, and he always awarded Për La Naziun to those who, in his estimation, helped to save the Kingdom of Talossa, even if this rationale in the case of Josh Forziun and his parents was a bit over-the-top. 

In Jorja B.'s time on the Talossan stage, everything was far more tongue-in-cheek than everything has become since 2004.  My, how we take things so seriously nowadays...

That being said, Ben took Për la Naziun very seriously, and if someone got that award, it was a big f---n deal.

Then came 2003-2005 when the Kingdom was effectively rebooted.  The continuity of the culture of awards and honours inherited from Ben upon his abdication and departure from the Kingdom did not survive him.  In Ben's time, there was no 'Lord Q' and 'Duke JJ', and there were also no lesser awards than PLN, which admittedly could have been seen as a real defect in Ben's system.

The leadership under the illegal-and-mother-not-approved (?) Boy-King and King John both had to work the system from scratch.  The weirdness in our awards system started with the Boy-King's time, but it was the wake of the most stressful time in Talossan history, and everyone was going on the best information they had. 

That and the informal concept of 'SCA-Talossa' had fully caught hold.  Something had to fill the Kingdom's cultural vacuum, and think the heavens it was that and not something even stranger.

That being said, I say this again: the flowering of awards of arms in 2005-2007 was a pleasant sight to behold - the natural evolution of Talossa's heraldic past, and one which I will always approve of. 

A casualty of SCA-Talossa, however, was the seriousness and relative rarity of Për la Naziun. 

I take you all to http://wiki.talossa.com/Order_for_the_Nation  It is abundantly clear not all honorees of Për la Naziun have done things to 'save Talossa', while others have.  Yes, Ben would have survived his ordeal at the pier without the aid of Josh and his parents, but they did their good deed for the day.  And Ben was bad enough to have stitches, all things considered.

There is one person whose award is remembered by me clearly, but the record of which existed only on Wittenberg VI, which is irretrievably lost: Tomás Gariçéir's PLN (Order of the Purple Tongue) from the year 2000.

And that's just it.  According to the link above, PLN and the Order of the Purple Tongue are two separate award grades when in-fact, being a Knight of the Order of the Purple Tongue was something actually made a part of PLN.

The seriousness of PLN has been marred, but what about the Peerage?  Is the Peerage greater even than Për la Naziun, then?  What do we do with all this confusion?

Cont'd...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EBLZ9lmwtFCFAjD7Xk5xN-Pof6r8qZLo/view?usp=sharing

Some years ago, Iustì Canun re-typed the whole of the Big History.  It turns out he was working from a physical copy donated in 1994 by Ben Madison to the Golda Meir Library at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee honoring Talossa's fifteenth anniversary as well as Dr. W. A. Renzi, once a Talossan citizen and who taught at UWM up to his sudden death in 1990.

It turns out the text of this 1994 Golda Meir Library Edition differs in some spots from the 2002 Xerox Party Copy (both the xeroxes of the physical I mailed to ILupul and FBuchholtz some years ago).  A reckoning of those differences will be coming eventually.

Linked above at libraryoftalossa.com is a name-translated new reworking of Iusti's work, his original .doc being lost years ago.  I have corrected obvious typos and included many annotations explaining text oddities and other things.  Of course, I have made appropriate name-translations and have redacted images.

Iustì's resultant .pdf (as posted to the Wiki years ago) still exists, though it was not name-translated.  However, because Canun used fonts easily deciphered by Adobe Acrobat Pro DC, a simple export to .html work such magic as to be indistinguishable from magic, preserving nearly all italicisations, paragraph-breaks, and underlinings.  Even Ben's weird Talossan diacritics did not need re-working, though images had to be completely re-exported from my original 2012 and 2014 scans.

I am jazzed as all-get-out to get this done.  Do not expect, however, the same for TNN, though it might be possible work some of the old Stot archives in this way.  TNN is too graphically complex for something like this to work in a feasible amount of time, and unlike any other work of extant Talossanity, the layout and images in JJ's TNN is as much of a character as he is.

   Renaissance! Return! Royalty! Screamed banner headlines in the 22nd July 1981 issue of Ben Wu, proclaiming the end of the Interregnum and the beginning of the Renaissance. The Interregnum--during which Talossa had died an unnatural death at the hands of its founder--had lasted only eight days. The national death had occurred because King Robert I feared for his reputation out there in the 'real world.' Talossa owed its return to the profound realisation that not only did Ben Madison have every right to his own quirks, but that people 'out there' were not all the dullards he supposed them to be.

   Case in point: Frédéric Corïu. The impending arrival of Monsieur Corïu was hailed in early 1981 by the Talossan press. Finally a cultured European would set foot on Talossan soil (or floor); he and the King had both joked about politics in their introductory letters to each other that spring, and it seemed like a friendship might genuinely develop. However, Madison wondered about the wisdom of hitting Corïu with Talossa--might it be too strange?

   After Corïu's arrival, the ex-King avoided the subject of the now-dead Talossa, but the Talossan "Blutfahne" remained aloft inside its one-room national territory, and Corïu inquired as to what it was and meant. As best he could, the embarrassed Madison explained Talossa--and Corïu was enthralled, showering the erstwhile King with compliments on his unique ingenuity. After a week of thinking and talking, Robert Ben Madison decided to reactivate the world's smallest country.  Corïu would later be granted citizenship on the same terms as Dan, Bob, Josh, Harry and Dawn. Corïu's encouragement (plus a shot in the arm for world monarchism by the recent marriage of Prince Charles and Lady Diana, the King admits) had put the Kingdom of Talossa back on the map.

One thing I absolutely do not want for Talossa is a hard set of 'metrics' for what constitutes an acceptable level of 'activity' from anyone from the monarch to the newest prospective.  Wittenberg posts for the sake of a quota are empty data devoid of any meaning whatsoever and do no good for Talossa.

That being said, as I write this, Miestrâ Schivâ has posted to this forum 1003 times.  ADavinescu is in 2nd place with an absolutely solid 614, which is a better number to go by than Miestrâ's as she is, in the best sense of the word, a bit of a 'polly-parrot'.  Fortunately, she is by no means a windbag.  lol

The King of Talossa, you ask?  He should be posting to Witt often, right?  The greatest ambassador for Talossa, right?  Our foremost spokesman with hundreds of Wittenberg posts welcoming new prospectives and keeping up with citizens.  How many Witt posts for our man, Ián Lupul, King of Talossa, do you ask? 

21.

Since 3 December 2019, about seventeen months, exactly 21 Wittenberg posts from the Monarch with a period of about six months in which he made exactly one or two posts... 

This from a incumbent monarch who continues to be healthy and who continues to be crisis-free in real life (unless there is something he's been holding back all this time - I hope not, Ián), but who elects to hand off power to an appointed Regent for no other reason than because he can??...

And Ián wonders why the Historic Compromise has gained so much traction in recent months?

EDIT: Thank you, @Miestrâ Schivâ, for pointing out Ián has made a great effort with his own use of the Talossan language.  And how could I have forgotten his hard-copy grants and honours incoming?  Definitely all to his favor, but as she said elsewhere in this thread, those good efforts are by his behavior in disappearing for so long greatly diminished.

Re: https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=806.0
(Edited and corrected)

To know Miestrâ Schivâ is to know one of the most left-wing citizens in the history of the greater Talossan community, only eclipsed by an anarchist or two.

To know Miestrâ Schivâ is also to know an individual who is one of the kindest and most decent human beings I've ever come across.  She is what I wish more people in all facets of politics would be: a bridge-builder who allows those who do not agree with her the space to come around.

Her history in Talossa along with all the neo-Penguinea/third Liberal Party Talossans of today and yore is one which I hope will be written down far better than I ever would be able to pen. 

No-one can doubt her political/legal competence, street-smarts, energy, enthusiasm, transparency, linguistic acumen, and genuine love for Ben Madison's bedroom kingdom.  All of this, even with her brashness at times, has been in full evidence since 1997.  May it all continue for many years to come.

For the past decade-and-a-half, Miestrâ Schivâ has been a preserver of and builder of community in Talossa.  She more than anyone else made sure the Republic of Talossa survived long enough for Reunision to happen, our community remaining intact such not only the driving out of Kane dal Nava from the Kingdom was reversed, but the first, second, and third Talossan Mass Exodi were made moot.

Now, it is my hope Miestrâ will get the long period of rest her health needs.  Younger Talossans, Miestrâ's and my generation grow tired and weary.  It's time for you all to step up and keep Ben Madison's bedroom-kingdom alive.

GV, Senator - Fiôvâ

If anyone makes an attempt at tracing the political lineage (people or otherwise) of any political party in today's Kingdom of Talossa back farther than 2005 or 2006, they will fail.  The 2003-2005 period saw a political cataclysm in Talossa, and with the demise of the Conservative Loyalist Party ca. 2007, the old Talossan political order, going back to its founding, breathed its last breath and expired.

The vanguard of the new Kingdom order was the RUMP, which would go on to have the second-most-successful electoral record in all of Talossa, Kingdom or Republic, surpassed only by the Progressive Conservative Party, the last leader of which was JJ who dissolved that party ca. 2005.

Modern Talossan politics is made of three general groups: the RUMP and its successor movements, those who were never a part of pre-15-August-2005 Talossa and who opposed the RUMP, and those who came from the Republic and their never-Republic-citizen political party or movement-members in the Kingdom.  As to the latter, old-time opposition to RUMP has in part moved to their camp, but parties such as the now-defunct AMP and MRPT represent part of the vanguard of a Talossan political order that does not even trace back to the RUMP or the ZRT in any way - a coming order of the coming generation of Talossans already present who never were a part of Talossan life before Reunision and for whom all that drama is lost in the mists of time.

Yet that new vanguard is still in terms of lineage welded in one way or another to the order that will pass away (not literally!) in the next five to ten years.  And without knowing it, they are fighting a political and cultural battle which has its beginnings on 1 June 2004: not giving the Splitters and Quitters the sort of cultural 'slack' appropriate to the extenuating and terrible circumstances which led to the Split in the first place.

In March 2004, R. Ben Madison made accusations against Kane dal Nava (then Chirisch Cavéir) on Wittenberg X of domestic violence.  These accusations are to this day preserved in their original Wittenberg X context in the Lytheria Codex, available on www.libraryoftalossa.com and are discussed and refuted in-full in 'An Nation Sundered' also available at the aforementioned link. 

To this day, no evidence has ever been presented to have proven these accusations to be anything but false.

There is no getting around this.

This vendetta by Madison against Kane eroded the very foundation of internet-trust all Cybercits relied upon to be able to do Talossa.  It also established in the minds of many if Ben did such a thing to Chirisch Cavéir, he could do it to anyone.  The late Bill Cooper in his April 2004 renunciation, and the late Art Verbotten in his renunciation from the same night outlined this situation in such terms.

When Ben made these accusations, he broke Talossa.  When Ben made these accusations, he directly provoked the establishment of the Republic of Talossa on 1 June 2004.

[cont'd]

I remind everyone voting on this amendment to the 2017 Organic Law merely puts the question to a direct referendum of the people and does not actually enact the provisions.  We are merely asking the people to decide.

Let it never be said four and only four Senators thwarted the will of the people on this matter.  We must be able to periodically choose - or throw out - our elected Head of State who has in their purview the weight of Talossan culture and history as well as carries the power of legislative veto and is the chief of all heraldic and honorial matters in the Kingdom.

Voting Për on 55RZ21 does not depose John Woolley from the throne.  I suspect the Convocation will elect him for another seven years.

GV, Fiôvâ

The Secretary of State is in quick need of a Mençéi Election Commission appointment.  To satisfy that legality as soon as possible and after receiving an assurance from the SoS it is legal for me to do so, I hereby appoint myself. 

Many apologies for not thinking of this sooner, as I would have liked someone else in that post, though at this point I have no wish to give the SoS a new person for that role at this late date.  Unless there is a huge legal objection to same... 

Açavat, I think you were our EC person last time.  You will (hopefully) get the nod next time, but I had to made an executive decision for the SoS quick.

Thanks, all!

GV, Mençéi

Happy Easter, Passover, and springtime to all!  In many places (at least in the U. S.), things are starting to wake up agan.  No matter what happens, though, this is still God's world.

Many thanks as always to all of you for serving as Senators, in the Ziu, and for serving the people of Talossa.  We cannot take each other and the continued existence of Talossa for granted.  May God grant that Talossa survives into the age to come.

Voting details: https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=732.msg5830#msg5830

No, ProBoards is not taking down talossa.proboards.com any time soon, but its CEO did put out a call for contributions/donations, which tells me things may be more dire with ProBoards than they are letting on, imho.

The message may be had via https://www.proboards.com/contribute

I am making a tiny monthly donation, and I encourage all Talossans to do their part to make our Witt XI legacy voice heard with the ProBoards staff.  That service has been free for all for almost twenty years, but those halcyon days could be coming to an end, imho.

GV, Royal Archivist

WHEREAS on 10 March 2021, GV the Mençéi was making happy preparations for proposing a Living Senäts to his esteemed fellows in that body,

WHEREAS GV to his horror realized the 2017 Organic Law did not have a 'Living Senäts' included,

WHEREAS GV hoped El Lex would clear that logjam,

WHEREAS unfortunately, it did (Lex.H.25),

WHEREAS GV is well aware of the far-greater history of the Cosâ relative to the Senäts and its historical role at setting the agenda and tone for the nation with the Senäts as an agent of checks and balances,

WHEREAS allowing the Senäts to hold its own live sessions independent of the Cosâ is not intended as any agent of change of the prevailing political culture of both institutions,

THEREFORE, the ZIU enacts the following:

Article IV, Section 11 of the 2017 Organic Law is repealed and replaced with the following:

Article IV, Section 11 So long as all Members of the Ziu have ample opportunity to submit their votes remotely, the Cosâ and Senäts together or as independent bodies may set and hold Living Cosâs or Living Senäts to coincide with a Clark as described by law.  Such events shall be held live and may be done by analog and/or electronic means.  The Ziu shall have the power to enforce this section by means of appropriate legislation.

+ + +

Should the above amendment to the 2017 Organic Law be passed, the following shall take effect:

Lex.H.25 shall be repealed and replaced with the following:

25.1.1 The Cosa may hold living Cosas during subsequent Clarks by a vote of the Cosa naming the specific month in which the event is to take place. The exact date and location of the Living Cosâ shall be set by the Seneschál after consultation with all relevant parties. All members must receive two weeks notice of the date of the Living Cosâ. The Seneschál may, if events warrant, issue a PD authorizing a Living Cosâ in the following calendar month. Such a PD may be vetoed (in addition to normal means) by a formal protest to the Secretary of State by Members of the Cosâ comprising one-third or greater the number of elected seats in the Cosâ.

25.1.2 Members who cannot attend will not be denied the right to vote on that month's Clark. They may send their votes to the Secretary of State by any means feasible, so that they can be announced at the Living Cosâ. A member may, in writing, delegate his authority to vote (temporarily transfer his seats) to another person who can attend the Living Cosâ, but no individual may hold more than thirty seats, counting both proxy and permanently assigned seats, for purposes of the Living Cosâ. The Ziu may provide by law for quorum requirements, and for attendance via telephone, videoconference, or other remote means.

25.1.3 Votes presented to the Secretary of State after the Living Cosâ will not be counted in the final tally. The final tally of votes on all bills is taken at the end of the Living Cosâ.

25.1.4 New bills, or amendments, may not be presented at the Living Cosâ. No bill not published in the Clark may be debated. Clarks will be published on schedule as usual.

25.1.5 Senators shall be permitted to participate in Living Cosâ debates, but may not vote.

25.2.1 The Senäts may hold living Senäts during subsequent Clarks by a vote of the Senäts naming the specific month in which the event is to take place. The exact date and location of the Living Cosâ shall be set by the Mençéi  after consultation with all relevant parties. All members must receive two weeks notice of the date of the Living Senäts. The Seneschál with concurrence from the Mençéi and one other Senator may, if events warrant, issue a PD authorizing a Living Senäts in the following calendar month. Such a PD may be vetoed (in addition to normal means) by a formal protest to the Secretary of State by Members of the Senäts comprising one-third or greater the number of elected seats in the Senäts.

25.2.2 Members who cannot attend will not be denied the right to vote on that month's Clark. They may send their votes to the Secretary of State by any means feasible, so that they can be announced at the Living Senäts. A member may, in writing, delegate his authority to vote (temporarily transfer his seat) to another person who can attend the Living Senäts, but no individual may hold more than two seats, counting both proxy and permanently assigned seats, for purposes of the Living Senäts. The Ziu may provide by law for quorum requirements, and for attendance via telephone, videoconference, or other remote means.

25.2.3 Votes presented to the Secretary of State after the Living Senäts will not be counted in the final tally. The final tally of votes on all bills is taken at the end of the Living Senäts.

25.2.4 New bills, or amendments, may not be presented at the Living Senäts. No bill not published in the Clark may be debated. Clarks will be published on schedule as usual.

25.2.5 Members of Cosâ shall be permitted to participate in Living Senäts debates, but may not vote.

to be proposed (once Clarked) by GV as Mençéi using his Limousine

<end of bill text>

I wonder over the necessity for the clause "The Ziu may provide by law for quorum requirements, and for attendance via telephone, videoconference, or other remote means.", but have left that in for now.  Let's talk on that, specifically.

I would also like to get better enlightened on the rationale for the Senäts never before being able to legally hold its own live sessions.

Hopefully, this can be Clarked for next month, as I'd like at least one Living Senäts next term, whether I am returned as Mençéi or not.

Thanks, all!

GV, Senator for Fiôvâ

I'm pretty sure the government will not fall this month via the VOC, which means we can forge ahead with a Living Senäts for next month's Clark, but done virtually via Zoom or other videoconferencing app.

My hope is to get the event done early in next month to allow for technical mishaps and the like.  Ergo, let's get discussion going on rules for parliamentary procedure, proxies, etc.

Firstly, the 2017 Organic Law does not specifically allow the Senäts to hold a 'Living' session as it does the Cosâ (IV.11).  However, the 2017 does not specifically disallow the Senäts to hold an in-person session of its own. 

However, Lex.H.25.4 is clear: a 'Living Senäts' is currently not allowed under Talossan law, which lives into the 2017 OrgLaw omission of the Senäts from 2017OrgLaw.IV.11

In my opinion, it will take an OrgLaw referendum for us to be able to independently administer our own 'Living' sessions independent of the Cosâ.  Of course, appropriate changes to El Lex will be in order should such an amendment pass.

Many apologies to all for not seeing this sooner.  We will not be able to legally hold a 'Living Senäts' in-person or virtually until this legislative roadblock is remedied.  I will be hoppering legislation, hopefully for inclusion in next month's Clark, and when I have it hoppered, I will let you all know as a reply to this thread.

Thanks, all!

GV, Mençéi

I'm not sure if they are registered by the College or not, but if not, I suggest the College do so anyway.

If the King needs to somehow 'recognize' this to make it 'Talossan-legal', then that will be for him to determine.  I just want to be sure no-one else can have it other than Ben.

Ben made this graphic ca. 2001 when he put to Witt his (extant, I think) geneaology going back to the Counts of Toulouse!

For the moment: azure on a cross quadrafoil argent, but let's see it first.

The 'version' of this Clark I originally looked at was, as it turns out, last month's Clark [slaps head].

The bills for this month's Clark are at http://www.talossa.ca/files/clark.php?cosa=55&clark=5

We head to the conclusion of this Cosâ!  To those in Texas (like I), continued best wishes re the aftermath of the great freeze of last month.

Again, no Order Papers until next Cosâ

GV, Mençéi

Per his wife, Maggie, on Facebook within the last two hours as of this Witt post: "Please keep Thomas
in your thoughts and prayers. He was rushed to the ER yesterday and the doctors weren't able to get his atrial fibrillation under control through meds or an electroconversion. Surgery called an ablation is planned for Friday or Monday, whenever they have an opening. They will go into his heart and scrape away cells in hopes of converting his heart to sinus rhythm.  This is posted with Thomas' permission. E-mails can be sent to getwellsoonthomas@gmail.com"

I will send Tomás an email, and I urge all of us to do likewise. 

Voting begins now and concludes at the end of voting for the March 2021 Clark.  I will Clark a similar resolution for the entire Ziu, but thought it appropriate after all to put this before us as our own body.  Thank you, all!

Senäts Resolution (February-March 2021) in Memory and Honor of John Carl Eiffler / Art Verbotten

WHEREAS John Carl Eiffler of Milwaukee, Wisconsin - known to Talossans as 'Art Verbotten' - was in the Talossan community from at least 1980 onward and was active from the mid-1980s through ca. 2010.

WHEREAS he was an active citizen of the Kingdom of Talossa and later of the 2004-2012 Republic of Talossa and whose April 2004 renunciation of the Kingdom helped (along with Bill Cooper's renunciation the same night) throw the full light of clarity and truth on Ben Madison's vendetta against Kane Gruber,

WHEREAS his presence in Talossa was one of consistency, approachability, and a continual fount of wisdom,

WHEREAS he was called the 'Conscience of Talossa',

WHEREAS he was born 14 July 1964 and died on 10 January 2021, though the Kingdom did not hear of it until a fortnight afterward,

WHEREAS he was able to, in only a few gracious and pointed words, distill a conflict and put all sides in their places, seeing through everyone's b-s,

WHEREAS he was just plain cool and his loss is a profound one to the Talossan Kingdom community, the micronational community at-large, the Talossan expatriate community, and most of all to his family and friends outside of Talossa,

WHEREAS the Kingdom of Thord has left the building,

THEREFORE, the Senäts of Talossa extends its profound sympathies to Eiffler's family and friends as well as to R. Ben Madison, Ián U. Metáiriâ, and all the greater Talossan nation.

May John Carl Eiffler / Art Verbotten be remembered for his wisdom, wit, and for being a giant who walked among us.

Rest in peace, brother.

Proposed on 19 February 2021 by the entire Senäts of the Kingdom of Talossa, of which Eiffler had been a member on at least one occasion - Authored by Gödefrïu Válcadác'h, Fiôvâ