There is a lot of rhetoric being flung around. The simple fact is the outcome is not known with certainty, no matter what one side keeps suggesting, and that is why we go through this democratic exercise. There are a lot of situations that could change the outcome. Let's keep our eyes in focus and instead of throwing verbal abuse, figure out a way to make the process work better so your exhausted Secretary of State can implement a smooth process that we can all agree on.

Quote from: Antonio Montagnha, Ed. D. on May 02, 2022, 03:51:36 PM
Because seeing a healthy, non-governmental discussion about things people care about would be a positive and organic encouragement to become a citizen. Its the same reason colleges and universities want potential recruits to know about their organizations, clubs, and social institutions.

Quote from: Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM on May 02, 2022, 02:14:38 PM

Quote from: Antonio Montagnha, Ed. D. on May 02, 2022, 02:05:02 PM
@Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM , can we make this board visible to non-board members?

What would be the point? They can't make posts, and we tend to restrict what visitors can see.

You make a good point. I'll work on changing the permissions.

Quote from: Antonio Montagnha, Ed. D. on May 02, 2022, 02:05:02 PM
@Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM , can we make this board visible to non-board members?

What would be the point? They can't make posts, and we tend to restrict what visitors can see.

Quote from: Antonio Montagnha, Ed. D. on May 01, 2022, 09:03:35 AM
I hereby cast my single vote for Ian Plätschisch. I have no second choice.

I cannot remember if I told you this yesterday or not, but in order for the vote to be valid, you must list a second choice. Thank you.

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil, MoFA on May 01, 2022, 11:48:10 PM

Quote from: Açafat del Val on May 01, 2022, 11:41:12 PM
Although I would argue that the PdR can't nominate anyone but its own leader. I mean, is there even a process in place for nomination? As far as I'm concerned, each party implicitly nominates itself.

Unless the PdR wishes unequivocally to announce that it refuses to nominate its own leader as a candidate for Seneschal, then I consider my vote valid.

I don't know if I can nominate anyone now that the election has already begun, if I'm honest.

Sorry, you can't nominate at this point. Thanks.

Let's keep discussion about the votes out of this thread. Thanks.

I'm sorry for the confusion and consternation that erupted in this election. I have asked the UC to interpret this law, but it will likely have to wait until the current election is concluded.

I am interpreting to my best effort the laws as written, as I will continue to do as long as I am allowed to continue in office as Secretary of State. This is by far not an easy job and I hope you all believe that I am doing this with grace, dignity, and fairness.

Quote from: Açafat del Val on May 01, 2022, 10:13:27 PM
I hereby cast my single vote for Ian Plätschisch. I have no second choice.

A second choice must be listed please.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on May 01, 2022, 01:04:06 PM

Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on May 01, 2022, 12:54:12 PM

Quote from: Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM on May 01, 2022, 12:50:23 PM

Quote from: Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on May 01, 2022, 12:22:42 PM
I'm not sure the interpretation by the secretary of state is correct, as yes, organic law does say that political parties nominate candidates for the election, and that it is a ranked choice vote, but it doesn't say that MC's can ONLY vote for the candidates presented to the Cosa, it just says, that MC's votes must be ranked choice and vote for at least two candidates, but the law as written, doesn't explicitly state that the only choices for Seneschal are the ones presented by the parties, from what i understand from reading the said laws, Also, if i recall correctly, last time we had the elections of Seneschal, we weren't constrained purely by the choices from the parties.

But yeah, from what i can tell, as the law isnt specific enough, from my own reading there is enough leeway in the law to allow other votes to be cast. And

QuoteNo member of the Cosâ may abstain in the election of a Seneschál, and shall rank on his/her ballot at least two distinct preferences, which itself shall be made public. (54RZ23)

, doesn't specify that we have to vote only for the candidates presented, just that we need to make two distinct choices.

I will respect your decision, although i honestly find the thought of casting my second vote for the other candidate abhorrent and distasteful, in the matter, but i thought id point out these things, and share my thoughts (and explain why i thought as i did) with all anyway.

I respect your views, but unless I'm corrected in my interpretation by a judge, I'm going to continue with what I believe is the plain meaning of the law. The first time we did this only party leaders could be candidates. That was a bigger headache let me tell you.

I believe the simplest way to fix this is to change the rules to allow voting for a single candidate as the current rules basically require people to vote against their own party and the philosophies of said party. Or simply have the party in power name a seneschal because in this case it really is not electing anyone.

Yes, it used to be that the party/parties who formed a majority would name their candidate for Seneschal.  But a year ago or so, this process was changed, adding a full month onto a Cosa term to accommodate this voting process.

http://www.talossa.ca/files/bills.php?cosa=54&bill=23

It remains unclear to me exactly why this was necessary.  As far as I can tell, it's a lot of time to spend engaged in a show vote that arrives at the exact same conclusion -- unless someone defects, which I am otherwise assured is outrageous and shouldn't be allowed.

Look folks. It's clear people don't like my interpretation of the law. A very badly written law, but the law nonetheless. I am doing my best to interpret this. Threatening to sue me is not helpful. Do what you must, however. Sorry.

Quote from: Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on May 01, 2022, 08:33:24 AM
I hereby cast my vote for Ian Plätschisch as Seneschal for my first choice,
Which leaves my second choice for Miestră Schivă

Dame Miestrâ is not a candidate.

Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on May 01, 2022, 12:54:12 PM

Quote from: Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM on May 01, 2022, 12:50:23 PM

Quote from: Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on May 01, 2022, 12:22:42 PM
I'm not sure the interpretation by the secretary of state is correct, as yes, organic law does say that political parties nominate candidates for the election, and that it is a ranked choice vote, but it doesn't say that MC's can ONLY vote for the candidates presented to the Cosa, it just says, that MC's votes must be ranked choice and vote for at least two candidates, but the law as written, doesn't explicitly state that the only choices for Seneschal are the ones presented by the parties, from what i understand from reading the said laws, Also, if i recall correctly, last time we had the elections of Seneschal, we weren't constrained purely by the choices from the parties.

But yeah, from what i can tell, as the law isnt specific enough, from my own reading there is enough leeway in the law to allow other votes to be cast. And

QuoteNo member of the Cosâ may abstain in the election of a Seneschál, and shall rank on his/her ballot at least two distinct preferences, which itself shall be made public. (54RZ23)

, doesn't specify that we have to vote only for the candidates presented, just that we need to make two distinct choices.

I will respect your decision, although i honestly find the thought of casting my second vote for the other candidate abhorrent and distasteful, in the matter, but i thought id point out these things, and share my thoughts (and explain why i thought as i did) with all anyway.

I respect your views, but unless I'm corrected in my interpretation by a judge, I'm going to continue with what I believe is the plain meaning of the law. The first time we did this only party leaders could be candidates. That was a bigger headache let me tell you.

I believe the simplest way to fix this is to change the rules to allow voting for a single candidate as the current rules basically require people to vote against their own party and the philosophies of said party. Or simply have the party in power name a seneschal because in this case it really is not electing anyone.

The OrgLaw must be amended if people want to change the process. It's doable but it won't affect this election.

Quote from: Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on May 01, 2022, 12:22:42 PM
I'm not sure the interpretation by the secretary of state is correct, as yes, organic law does say that political parties nominate candidates for the election, and that it is a ranked choice vote, but it doesn't say that MC's can ONLY vote for the candidates presented to the Cosa, it just says, that MC's votes must be ranked choice and vote for at least two candidates, but the law as written, doesn't explicitly state that the only choices for Seneschal are the ones presented by the parties, from what i understand from reading the said laws, Also, if i recall correctly, last time we had the elections of Seneschal, we weren't constrained purely by the choices from the parties.

But yeah, from what i can tell, as the law isnt specific enough, from my own reading there is enough leeway in the law to allow other votes to be cast. And

QuoteNo member of the Cosâ may abstain in the election of a Seneschál, and shall rank on his/her ballot at least two distinct preferences, which itself shall be made public. (54RZ23)

, doesn't specify that we have to vote only for the candidates presented, just that we need to make two distinct choices.

I will respect your decision, although i honestly find the thought of casting my second vote for the other candidate abhorrent and distasteful, in the matter, but i thought id point out these things, and share my thoughts (and explain why i thought as i did) with all anyway.

I respect your views, but unless I'm corrected in my interpretation by a judge, I'm going to continue with what I believe is the plain meaning of the law. The first time we did this only party leaders could be candidates. That was a bigger headache let me tell you.

Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on May 01, 2022, 12:12:35 PM
I think we need to do something to clarify the Seneschal elections and to allow for write in candidates or conversely limit voters to a single vote particularly when there are only two candidates. It seems painfully obvious who the second choice would be in this event since we are not allowed to vote for only one candidate. Sounds like a rule the United States would come up with to waste time.

I had no hand or input on writing this law. If the Ziu wishes to change it, go for it.

Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on May 01, 2022, 11:12:28 AM

Quote from: Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM on May 01, 2022, 10:51:06 AM

Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on May 01, 2022, 09:15:36 AM
I cast my vote for Brenier Tzaracompadra I assume I can only vote for the listed candidates so that would make my second choice pretty obvious

As per Organic Law, every MC must list his or her first and second choice. Please list a second choice.

First choice Brenier Tzaracompadra
Second choice Mic'haglh Autófil

S:reu Autófil is not a candidate. Please amend your vote.

Please allow me to be clear: MCs must list a first and second choice, and they may only vote on candidates nominated by the parties. Any other vote is invalid and will not be counted until corrected.

I must follow the Organic Law folks.