Estimat Túischac'h,
I'll thank my honourable friend the Distain for his reply to my zesclaraziun da votă. I'd like to offer a brief response.
Clearly that was a rethorical question, but it gives me the opportunity to further delve into the matter. The question that we should ask ourselves is not whether we can tangibly alter the text of a law approved by the Ziu, but rather what are the legal consequences of an alteration and the legal status of that piece of legislation we are altering.
The Preamble, as I argued before, the proclaiming instrument of the Legeu Orgänic. In a nutshell it can be simplified to:
It's only - but powerful - function is to promulgate the following text approved by the Ziu and confirmed by the People. It's the written version of the real act of our King thorugh which he "ordain and establish" the Legeu Orgänic and in the exact moment it acquired legal force, it infused legal force and authority to the following articles as the supreme law of the Regipäts. In that precise moment the Preamble exhausted its function. It no longer propagates consequences, as it has an ephemeral nature: the perpetual legal consequences are emanated from the Articles, which have an immanent nature.
The Ziu can approve a bill to amend the text of, for example, 57RZ1 - The Poor, Unfortunate Souls Citizenship Act, but what are the legal consequences of such a bill? None. Because in the exact moment 57RZ1 acquired legal force it amended the Lexhatx, and exhausted its function. The legal consequences of that act are now propagated by the Lexhatx.
It would be pointless to alter a text with an ephemeral nature, unless we would do that to correct scribal errors for the sake of posterity and accuracy. That's why I made reference to the 2019 date. The current version of the the Legeu Orgänic was adopted by the Ziu with 53RZ18 in July 2019 and approved by the People in a referendüm held in November 2019. In my personal opinion that's the date the text should be refered as. And no, the date of drafting and the date of approval of a text have not equal standing: the former is only of academic concern while the latter is the date when - from a legal point of view - the text came to be.
Shall we pretend that King John was the King of Talossa in 1997? Our Monarch has many powers and qualities, but I'm pretty sure that time travelling is not one of them.
How can we pretend that a Preamble that starts with WE, JOHN I, by the grace of God, King of Talossa, etc., etc., etc., was promulgated in 1997? Until July 2019 we repeatedly amended a text that started with WE, ROBERT I, by the grace of God, King of Talossa, etc., etc., etc.,, and that was clearly still the 1997 Legeu Orgänic, amended, but the same.
But with 53RZ18 we unconsciously did something different, something new.
We changed eveything, even the Preamble.
In the sacred virtual scroll that contained the text of the Legeu Orgänic every word, every punctuations was erased and a new text, certainly in a beautiful and pompous handwriting, was written. The scroll is the same, it derives it's authority from the 1997 proclamation WE, ROBERT I [...] do ordain and establish but now says WE, JOHN I [...] do ordain and establish. A new act of proclamation, a new proclaming instrument was born in that moment. Rooted on the 1997 one, the "scroll" is the same, but radically different.
I cannot say if it is a new Legeu Orgänic or a new version of the previous Legeu Orgänic but certainly it something different from any other amendment ever approved because of that new Preamble. It has a new/different nature because now it's King John that ordain(ed) and establish(ed).
This is why I suggested the formula
because it is neutral: it recognises that something extraordinary happened, that something different came to be without stating the exact nature of what came to be. But we can be sure of something: we cannot pretend that a text that starts with
is a text proclaimed in 1997.
To conclude, I can only consider to support a text that amends a part of our legal system that has an ephemeral nature only, and only if, it has the purpose to put right (2019) something that is not (2017), otherwise I consider it pointless and dangerous. That's the reason why I voted contră on that bill, and I encourage all the Membreux dal Cosă to vote contră as well.
Estimat Túischac'h, Talossa must be fun but it should and must be a damn serious fun reality.
Méirci à toct, smestéu el tarleu.
I'll thank my honourable friend the Distain for his reply to my zesclaraziun da votă. I'd like to offer a brief response.
QuoteQuoteCan we amend a relic, a legal document with an ephemeral nature that no longer emanates power - i.e. juridical consequences - from it?
Yes. The bill would do that, successfully. It's the equivalent of a label or a sign.
Clearly that was a rethorical question, but it gives me the opportunity to further delve into the matter. The question that we should ask ourselves is not whether we can tangibly alter the text of a law approved by the Ziu, but rather what are the legal consequences of an alteration and the legal status of that piece of legislation we are altering.
The Preamble, as I argued before, the proclaiming instrument of the Legeu Orgänic. In a nutshell it can be simplified to:
QuoteWE, JOHN I, by the grace of God, King of Talossa, etc., etc., etc., [...] do ordain and establish, by and through the consent of the Talossan People, as the supreme law of our Realm, this 2017 Organic Law.
It's only - but powerful - function is to promulgate the following text approved by the Ziu and confirmed by the People. It's the written version of the real act of our King thorugh which he "ordain and establish" the Legeu Orgänic and in the exact moment it acquired legal force, it infused legal force and authority to the following articles as the supreme law of the Regipäts. In that precise moment the Preamble exhausted its function. It no longer propagates consequences, as it has an ephemeral nature: the perpetual legal consequences are emanated from the Articles, which have an immanent nature.
The Ziu can approve a bill to amend the text of, for example, 57RZ1 - The Poor, Unfortunate Souls Citizenship Act, but what are the legal consequences of such a bill? None. Because in the exact moment 57RZ1 acquired legal force it amended the Lexhatx, and exhausted its function. The legal consequences of that act are now propagated by the Lexhatx.
It would be pointless to alter a text with an ephemeral nature, unless we would do that to correct scribal errors for the sake of posterity and accuracy. That's why I made reference to the 2019 date. The current version of the the Legeu Orgänic was adopted by the Ziu with 53RZ18 in July 2019 and approved by the People in a referendüm held in November 2019. In my personal opinion that's the date the text should be refered as. And no, the date of drafting and the date of approval of a text have not equal standing: the former is only of academic concern while the latter is the date when - from a legal point of view - the text came to be.
QuoteNo. The Organic Law was promulgated in 1997, and has been amended many times since. While it was changed in many places in the 2017 revisions, the vast majority of the text remained the same, the structures remained the same, and our system remained the same. It was partially amended through the process detailed within itself. In neither detail nor function nor legal reality is it a new document.
It's the 1997 Organic Law. It's pretty neat that we have a constitution that dates back to 1997. That's a rare thing among nations like our own. It has a majesty to it. We should accurately refer to it by the date when it first became effective, since there's not really any good reason to pretend it's something a lot newer.
Shall we pretend that King John was the King of Talossa in 1997? Our Monarch has many powers and qualities, but I'm pretty sure that time travelling is not one of them.
How can we pretend that a Preamble that starts with WE, JOHN I, by the grace of God, King of Talossa, etc., etc., etc., was promulgated in 1997? Until July 2019 we repeatedly amended a text that started with WE, ROBERT I, by the grace of God, King of Talossa, etc., etc., etc.,, and that was clearly still the 1997 Legeu Orgänic, amended, but the same.
But with 53RZ18 we unconsciously did something different, something new.
We changed eveything, even the Preamble.
In the sacred virtual scroll that contained the text of the Legeu Orgänic every word, every punctuations was erased and a new text, certainly in a beautiful and pompous handwriting, was written. The scroll is the same, it derives it's authority from the 1997 proclamation WE, ROBERT I [...] do ordain and establish but now says WE, JOHN I [...] do ordain and establish. A new act of proclamation, a new proclaming instrument was born in that moment. Rooted on the 1997 one, the "scroll" is the same, but radically different.
I cannot say if it is a new Legeu Orgänic or a new version of the previous Legeu Orgänic but certainly it something different from any other amendment ever approved because of that new Preamble. It has a new/different nature because now it's King John that ordain(ed) and establish(ed).
This is why I suggested the formula
Quotethis XXXX revision of the 1997 Organic Law
because it is neutral: it recognises that something extraordinary happened, that something different came to be without stating the exact nature of what came to be. But we can be sure of something: we cannot pretend that a text that starts with
QuoteWE, JOHN I, by the grace of God, King of Talossa, etc., etc., etc., [...] do ordain and establish, by and through the consent of the Talossan People, as the supreme law of our Realm, this 2017 Organic Law.
is a text proclaimed in 1997.
To conclude, I can only consider to support a text that amends a part of our legal system that has an ephemeral nature only, and only if, it has the purpose to put right (2019) something that is not (2017), otherwise I consider it pointless and dangerous. That's the reason why I voted contră on that bill, and I encourage all the Membreux dal Cosă to vote contră as well.
Estimat Túischac'h, Talossa must be fun but it should and must be a damn serious fun reality.
Méirci à toct, smestéu el tarleu.