Wittenberg

The Ministry of Culture, in association with La Società per l'Ilesnaziun del Glheþ Naziunal (SIGN), is pleased to formally announce a contest for writing in the Talossan language / ár glheþ naziunal.

There will be two categories of entries each with a prize of a US$25 Amazon gift card:

• Short-form: under 100 words. This opens the field to poetry, as well as to less confident Talossan language learners who might only be able to do one or two sentences.
• Long-form: 100-1500 words. Ain't no-one got time to read more than that.

Entries will mainly be judged on literary merit and on at least a good "attempt" to write in Talossan. (If we can understand it, it's good enough). Correct grammar may be used as a "tiebreaker".

Entries must be submitted by December 1 as a reply here or by private message to a member of SIGN, and will be judged by the members of SIGN as a committee. Please note that the judges may well submit their own entries, but all entries will be published for the sake of transparency (unless entrants object).

The winning entry will be announced on 12 December, Llimbaziua (Language Day).

Questions? Comments?

As someone who isn't weel versed in ár glheþ, where can one find a Talossan->English dictionary?

Quote from: Zilect Uómbat Firă on October 19, 2024, 07:09:27 PMAs someone who isn't weel versed in ár glheþ, where can one find a Talossan->English dictionary?

L'Översteir  (https://oversteir.talossa.com/)

Does the writing have to be original? For example, could I translate a portion of one of my books?

Quote from: Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB on October 19, 2024, 09:11:22 PMDoes the writing have to be original? For example, could I translate a portion of one of my books?

If it's a portion of one of *your* books, then it's perfectly original

Lo Reign de los Rêvos

Era ün om da Milvoc'ht,
     qi da enuxhità,
en sia cambră,
     creava üna naziun.
Qatorçh-cinc ars aint paßat
     e l'anavál del Réx Ben vivera.
I ars aint vêzut cangiăs,
     en lo stil e forma de questa naziun.
Cun citoyens across lo glob,
     ün om's anavál spandit.
Talossa deveni mai granda,
     che ün om podi rêvar.
E che nos tots toz mument aint remembrar:
     Miehen Huone on Hänen Valtakuntansa.

El þivereu esteva fred.  Els ischeis cunxhelarhent, Ian penseva.  Dürånt el nic'ht, éu sequestrarhéu àl interiör.  O xhenculeva sür la saulă es dismanteleva els oscatürs.  Els ischeis fraischen meschevent.  Simca hamiltăs es l'evéu.

O mireva upp.  C'esteva trei pecüliar... l'apă estevent imrè varmăs.  Ben, pü varmăs. O risguarda una cieră alçeva devagarmint.

Ian tzucaneva.  La Mar Talossan esteva müsteriös. Toct i säpevent.

O steva es recampeva els oscatürs es els ischeis.  O marscheva lalungă del schemtair, par delà dalas alăs carcavieglhen dal la fuglă sè l'ac'harvă.  Ça esteva lauçuschul ja qareinçe ars. Nun ça esteva un priclour txa.

Sieu pópul arvorievent in Villatx Freiric.  Os cultivevent l'iatz es el bläts.  Os creschtevent dals xhairăs.  Os guardevent las veăs politeiăs.

Ian xheteva els oscatürs ainciün sieu casal.  O fronçeva es invideva el vilatx.  C'e silént.  Villatx Freiric esteva vidă.

"Azul?" o clameva.

Silençù.

O ausculteva un crußamaintsch dal glaçă. "Qi va?  C'e te, Margeaux?"

"Non Margeaux," una voce zireva.  La coraziun sè Ian demerseva.  Una formă solenéă proximeva.  O tignhova un blað.

Els Maricopaglha tignhovent venevent.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on October 19, 2024, 03:05:32 PMUS$25 Amazon gift card

For those that do not use the American Dollar:

I wrote a story that I'd thought I'd give a shot translating into Talossan. I figured, while I'm nowhere near being even decent in Talossan, I do know more than probably a lot of citizens, and with the Guizua and L'Oversteier handy, I should have no problem.

I can't even translate the first sentence. This is harder than I thought. (Making up a few phrases for our Cjovani lexicon is easy, actually trying to translate prose is a whole 'nother thing.)

(Anyone more fluent in Talossan want to help? If we win, I'll split the prize money with you!)
 

FIVE DAYS TO GO IN THE CONTEST

And here's my entry:

La curaziun famelic
Pulsa txusc'a non put pü
quand q'el marqeu da sieu Dómnul
mitscha din el nich't auscür

Ja la cjatfă sanc 'nă nomină
Ja el vineu el pü füsc
Q'üns put liverar de la
Maladaziun da "eu" es "tu"

Mas ja ocså l'evidençù
Që noi non povent tolerar,
Del pec da niúrar el stomac,
Es la curaziun faminar

As I understand it, these are the current entries, right?

Short-Form
Dama Miestra's poem (https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=3588.msg30592#msg30592)
Zilect's poem (https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=3588.msg30169#msg30169)

Long-Form
My post-apocalyptic short story (https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=3588.msg30170#msg30170)

It might have been kinder to send them a private message letting them know they missed a word when they were translating their poem.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 08, 2024, 12:36:01 PMIt might have been kinder to send them a private message letting them know they missed a word when they were translating their poem.

Why am I like this?

The judges have given feedback on all the entries on the Discord, and I suppose they're just waiting for Llimbaziua to repost it here?

Oh, yes -- I know about the date the announcement will be made, and I wasn't rushing it.  I just wanted to be sure I hadn't missed any entries.

Quote from: Barclamïu da Miéletz on December 08, 2024, 01:26:00 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 08, 2024, 12:36:01 PMIt might have been kinder to send them a private message letting them know they missed a word when they were translating their poem.

Why am I like this?

It's not a big deal!  It can be hard to do your best and get rough criticism in return, so I just thought it bore a mention, as someone else who's working on their Talossan.  (I honestly don't understand most of their poem, myself, actually.)

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 08, 2024, 02:36:26 PM(I honestly don't understand most of their poem, myself, actually.)

I wouldn't understand it even if it was actual Talossan.

Azul and happy Llimbaziuă.

I'd live to announce the winners of the competition.

Short-form: Miestră Schivă's poem (https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=3588.msg30592#msg30592)
Long-form: Maricopaglha by AD (https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=3588.msg30170#msg30170)

Zilect Firă's submission was disqualified for not being in Talossan.

Corrections for each of the winning submissions will follow shortly. (Or, if you're impatient, you can check them in the unofficial Discord's #glheþ channel).

Congratulations to both winners!

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on December 12, 2024, 06:32:46 PMAzul and happy Llimbaziuă.

I'd live to announce the winners of the competition.

Short-form: Miestră Schivă's poem (https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=3588.msg30592#msg30592)
Long-form: Maricopaglha by AD (https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=3588.msg30170#msg30170)

Zilect Firă's submission was disqualified for not being in Talossan.

Corrections for each of the winning submissions will follow shortly. (Or, if you're impatient, you can check them in the unofficial Discord's #glheþ channel).

Congratulations to both winners!

Congratulations!

- Txec R

Thank you!

What corrections?

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on December 12, 2024, 06:32:46 PMZilect Firă's submission was disqualified for not being in Talossan.

I guess I shouldn't have relied upon ChatGPT to translate.

here's the poem in English:

The Kingdom of Dreams

There was a man from Milwaukee,
     who, out of boredom,
in his bedroom,
     created a micronation.
Forty-five years have passed
     and King Ben's dream lives on.
The years have seen changes,
     in the style and form of this nation.
With citizens across the globe,
     one man's dream has spread.
Talossa became bigger
     than one man could dream.
And may we all always remember:
     Miehen Huone on Hänen Valtakuntansa.

Quote from: Zilect Uómbat Firă on December 14, 2024, 03:54:28 PM

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on December 12, 2024, 06:32:46 PMZilect Firă's submission was disqualified for not being in Talossan.

I guess I shouldn't have relied upon ChatGPT to translate.

No, you really shouldn't. The goal of the contest was to encourage people to learn and use Talossan, and only about 25% of the words in the ChatGPT output were actually Talossan!

I'm sure there are some use cases for AI writing, but not at a level where people aren't even in a position to do a basic sanity-check on the AI output.

I could have done a "sanity check" if I could have found a functional online Talossan dictionary.

Quote from: Zilect Uómbat Firă on December 15, 2024, 02:50:38 PMI could have done a "sanity check" if I could have found a functional online Talossan dictionary.

L'Översteir (https://oversteir.talossa.com/) is just that. If you have any criticisms as to its functionality, feel free to let me or the current Secretary of State know.

Yeah, for example, you could have done this very simple search to indicate that ChatGPT was lying to you that the Talossan word for "man" is om (I think that's the word in some Northern Italian dialects)

But in any case the use of AI goes against the purpose of a contest that was supposed to be about people stretching their language skills

Screenshot 2024-12-16 at 11-08-24 L'Översteir.png

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on December 15, 2024, 03:50:40 PM

Quote from: Zilect Uómbat Firă on December 15, 2024, 02:50:38 PMI could have done a "sanity check" if I could have found a functional online Talossan dictionary.

L'Översteir (https://oversteir.talossa.com/) is just that. If you have any criticisms as to its functionality, feel free to let me or the current Secretary of State know.

Has come in handy for me sometimes.

I was going to try it, I have a cute little christmas poem somewhere, my biggest problem wasn't going to be figuring out the words it was the grammar that was going to be the issue for me.

Trying to find simple verbs like "been" or "was" returns "Your query didn't yield any results." or "no exact match" with a bunch of words that simply have those letters.

It would be super helpful if there was a searchable document that had the list of Talossan words with their English counterparts.

I have a copy of Count Thord's excellent (though outdated) Guizua which does give more information. I wish it was digital though as I can't search the Guizua if it is not in my hand.

In fact, I was chatting with the Count today and I made the joke that, like in England where they speak "The King's English," in Talossa, we speak "El Regeu se Glheþ" so if I say it, it's a word haha. (I channeled one of my favorite movies, King Ralph, to come to that thought!)

Quote from: Zilect Uómbat Firă on December 17, 2024, 03:20:26 PMTrying to find simple verbs like "been" or "was" returns "Your query didn't yield any results." or "no exact match" with a bunch of words that simply have those letters.

It would be super helpful if there was a searchable document that had the list of Talossan words with their English counterparts.

Like any other dictionary, you have to look up base forms. The base form of "been" and "was" is simply "be", and looking that up will give you the word estar as the main result. From there you can click on the word itself to find out how it is pronounced, or click the book icon on the right to get all the other grammatical forms.

A document as you describe it would be impossible because English words and Talossan words don't match 1-to-1. No two languages match that way.

This is a common problem with language learning among people who are monolingual, they assume precisely that - that other languages are "codes", the same rules as their own language but with the vocabulary swapped out. I remember being 10, trying to translate "I don't know" into German and looking up the word for "do".

This is why we need real, *real*, like baby-level Talossan 101 materials for people who don't even get that there are such things as verb conjugations.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on December 17, 2024, 08:13:18 PMI remember being 10

I spoke two languages fluently at that age + decent English you could say (look I'm the child of migrants so obviously I will speak more than one language.)

Quote from: Barclamïu da Miéletz on December 17, 2024, 11:53:48 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on December 17, 2024, 08:13:18 PMI remember being 10

I spoke two languages fluently at that age + decent English you could say (look I'm the child of migrants so obviously I will speak more than one language.)

In my country, anyone* who learns a non-English language willingly is known to be a woke homosexual

(* this is slightly softened in the case of te reo Māori, in which case you're a dangerous political radical)

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on December 17, 2024, 08:13:18 PMThis is a common problem with language learning among people who are monolingual, they assume precisely that - that other languages are "codes", the same rules as their own language but with the vocabulary swapped out. I remember being 10, trying to translate "I don't know" into German and looking up the word for "do".

This is why we need real, *real*, like baby-level Talossan 101 materials for people who don't even get that there are such things as verb conjugations.

This is something that I remember asking for help with on Fora Talossa. It didn't get much uptake then. I am hoping to add more helpful and accurate editions to the ongoing Talossan 101 materials on FT and the call for help will hopefully be taken up there or by another group.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on December 18, 2024, 02:09:49 PM

Quote from: Barclamïu da Miéletz on December 17, 2024, 11:53:48 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on December 17, 2024, 08:13:18 PMI remember being 10

I spoke two languages fluently at that age + decent English you could say (look I'm the child of migrants so obviously I will speak more than one language.)

In my country, anyone* who learns a non-English language willingly is known to be a woke homosexual

(* this is slightly softened in the case of te reo Māori, in which case you're a dangerous political radical)

Interesting...

I was motivated to write a short story for this competition by the money. It might be mercenary, but I have a lot of responsibilities and limited time. Doing something challenging that helps me learn is great, yet it's time away from other stuff I need to do. The chance of a small prize was a great motivator (which is maybe obvious, since it's the whole point of prizes).

I recently did a line-by-line translation of one stanza of a poem, and I think it might be beneficial to do such a thing for even simpler sentences and then make it accessible.  I think there's a grant program in the budget (or maybe there just used to be), so maybe I'll pitch that and see if it helps.  My Talossan isn't great, but it's better than nothing and probably it's infinitely easier to just make small fixes to someone else's lesson than to think through and write out the whole thing.

@Miestră Schivă, UrN , is the prize for this contest the whole of the available cultural grant money?

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on December 18, 2024, 03:34:19 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on December 17, 2024, 08:13:18 PMThis is a common problem with language learning among people who are monolingual, they assume precisely that - that other languages are "codes", the same rules as their own language but with the vocabulary swapped out. I remember being 10, trying to translate "I don't know" into German and looking up the word for "do".

This is why we need real, *real*, like baby-level Talossan 101 materials for people who don't even get that there are such things as verb conjugations.

This is something that I remember asking for help with on Fora Talossa. It didn't get much uptake then. I am hoping to add more helpful and accurate editions to the ongoing Talossan 101 materials on FT and the call for help will hopefully be taken up there or by another group.

*Crickets*

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 19, 2024, 08:56:48 AM@Miestră Schivă, UrN , is the prize for this contest the whole of the available cultural grant money?

It is; but the Cabinet is discussing whether I should accept my prize or donate it straight back to the Ministry. If someone has an idea for another contest for which there could be a $25 gift card prize, then excellent

No, my idea would have been to apply for grant funds to develop three initial lessons along the same lines as my recent translation post, walking people through some basic grammar concepts and the translation process. But it's not pressing, and maybe I'll do it anyway sometime.

If you go back to the old Proboards, all the lessons from the now defunct University are still there as well. I sometimes refer back there for my own needs.

Quote from: King Txec on December 19, 2024, 02:13:45 PMIf you go back to the old Proboards, all the lessons from the now defunct University are still there as well. I sometimes refer back there for my own needs.

If these are not on video then perhaps those are ripe for presenting via Fora Talossa.

No they aren't videos.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 19, 2024, 01:55:06 PMNo, my idea would have been to apply for grant funds to develop three initial lessons along the same lines as my recent translation post, walking people through some basic grammar concepts and the translation process. But it's not pressing, and maybe I'll do it anyway sometime.

Let the record show I am perfectly happy to give my $25 Amazon gift card to anyone who wants to do a good job of work for the Talossan language.

Would you want to commission me for that amount to do one full first introductory lesson, in the style I did before with that stanza of Trichard's poem?  For that amount, I'd talk in full through the translation of a few sentences, explaining introductory grammar concepts along the way and providing hyperlinked references.

Quote from: King Txec on December 19, 2024, 04:42:35 PMNo they aren't videos.

Ok, I'll use those as a basis for Fora Talossa's series then.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 20, 2024, 08:06:48 AMWould you want to commission me for that amount to do one full first introductory lesson, in the style I did before with that stanza of Trichard's poem?  For that amount, I'd talk in full through the translation of a few sentences, explaining introductory grammar concepts along the way and providing hyperlinked references.

I threw together a quick website to host this, in case this project happens.

https://talossan.net/

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 20, 2024, 09:23:58 AM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 20, 2024, 08:06:48 AMWould you want to commission me for that amount to do one full first introductory lesson, in the style I did before with that stanza of Trichard's poem?  For that amount, I'd talk in full through the translation of a few sentences, explaining introductory grammar concepts along the way and providing hyperlinked references.

I threw together a quick website to host this, in case this project happens.

https://talossan.net/

I very much hope this project gets going. It ties in very nicely to the themes of my upcoming Independence Day Speech. If I can be of use please let me know.

- Txec R

Looks like this deal is happening, so I'll get to work.

I'm glad that you offered to write lessons (I feel like you, having a teaching background, are more qualified than me, anyway). My only condition is for them to be double-checked by SIGN before they go live.

Well, I already started and it's live (https://talossan.net/lesson-one/), so that's not possible. But I'll slap a big warning at the top that it hasn't been checked and is probably wrong until you sign off on it.

Okay, all done.  Let me know if there's any problems, anything that needs to be expanded, or if I got anything wrong.  I'm pretty close to 100% sure I got something wrong.

The first lesson looks really good to me!

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 21, 2024, 02:23:10 PMOkay, all done.  Let me know if there's any problems, anything that needs to be expanded, or if I got anything wrong.  I'm pretty close to 100% sure I got something wrong.

"àð el" also automatically turns into "àl".

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 21, 2024, 02:23:10 PMOkay, all done.  Let me know if there's any problems, anything that needs to be expanded, or if I got anything wrong.  I'm pretty close to 100% sure I got something wrong.

éu sint impreßat par la thu ensegnhardestreçă  (how can we translate "Pedagogy" ?)

Really? That's weird, I didn't notice that.  Okay, cool.  Anything else?

EDIT: I'm actually going to assume that one laconic comment comprises the whole of the errors, and remove the warning. If there's anything else, let me know.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 21, 2024, 06:03:43 PMReally? That's weird, I didn't notice that.  Okay, cool.  Anything else?

EDIT: I'm actually going to assume that one laconic comment comprises the whole of the errors, and remove the warning. If there's anything else, let me know.

Yeah no that was all for lesson one. I really like your approach!

Thanks!

It took about an hour all told, which wasn't too bad. I hope the government considers it well-worth the investment, and maybe we can continue the series in the future. Pretty fun, too.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 21, 2024, 06:03:43 PMReally? That's weird, I didn't notice that.  Okay, cool.  Anything else?

EDIT: I'm actually going to assume that one laconic comment comprises the whole of the errors, and remove the warning. If there's anything else, let me know.

I apologize for being late to this, but, while "Ian veneva àl marcă" isn't technically wrong, I still feel that a better translation would be "Ian tent venescu àl marcă."

Why?  Wouldn't that be "Ian has gone to the store," the present perfect? "Ian went to the store" is a simple past statement.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 21, 2024, 10:08:54 PMWhy?  Wouldn't that be "Ian has gone to the store," the present perfect? "Ian went to the store" is a simple past statement.

Talossan doesn't strictly separate the two, but personally I think using veneva was perfect fine here.

I would think for an introductory lesson, we'd not want to make things too difficult. I wouldn't teach some grammar concepts to my students who aren't ready for that level of language.

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on December 22, 2024, 04:15:10 AM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 21, 2024, 10:08:54 PMWhy?  Wouldn't that be "Ian has gone to the store," the present perfect? "Ian went to the store" is a simple past statement.

Talossan doesn't strictly separate the two, but personally I think using veneva was perfect fine here.

English is different from a lot of other languages with how it uses those labels. So I don't even know, really! But it does seem like the literal translation here is the one I gave, unless there's a pretty unusual rule that I didn't know about.

Is the alternate translation here actually grammatically better as a translation, or is it just stylistically preferred? If it's the latter, then it's crazy to insist on it in the first lesson, since it would be much more complicated to explain unnecessary change of tense in the translation.

I chose this verb because it's extremely common (useful to know by itself) and it has very irregular conjugation (useful to show the skill of using the translator correctly and separating out different tenses, persons, etc). If it's necessary, I can focus on the grammatical gender skill in the first lesson instead, but I would prefer not to do that because it's downstream of agreement in general.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 21, 2024, 10:08:54 PMWhy?  Wouldn't that be "Ian has gone to the store," the present perfect? "Ian went to the store" is a simple past statement.

Because the two forms of the past tense, "tir + [past participle]" and "[stem] + -eva", are derived from the perfect and imperfect aspects in natural Romance languages, and "John went to the store" would be translated with the perfect aspect in (most of) those languages. Most of them don't distinguish between the simple past and the present perfect.

And, personally, I think a better sentence to start with would have been "John is going to the store," because it would've given a chance to demonstrate how Talossan doesn't distinguish the simple present and present continuous like English.

Okay, so it's a stylistic preference.

Well, that would be a really strange thing to emphasize in a language course for beginners.  It relies on a ton of prior linguistics knowledge, it focuses on an arcane aspect of the translation, and it's not easy to understand for someone who has never translated much of anything in their life.

The first language lesson is, like, "hey remember those 'verb' things you learned about when you were twelve?"

It really isn't arcane. Aspects, being nigh-omnipresent in any language that uses them, are pretty much the first thing you learn about the past tense in any natural Romance language class (except probably Spanish), even if they don't call it by name.

Quote from: Iac Marscheir on December 22, 2024, 08:55:30 AM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 21, 2024, 10:08:54 PMWhy?  Wouldn't that be "Ian has gone to the store," the present perfect? "Ian went to the store" is a simple past statement.

Because the two forms of the past tense, "tir + [past participle]" and "[stem] + -eva", are derived from the perfect and imperfect aspects in natural Romance languages, and "John went to the store" would be translated with the perfect aspect in (most of) those languages. Most of them don't distinguish between the simple past and the present perfect.

In French, "Jean allait au magasin" (imparfait/preterit) et "Jean est allé au magasin" (passé composé/present perfect) have clear different meanings, I assume Talossan works similarly ?

Quote from: þerxh Sant-Enogat on December 22, 2024, 10:17:00 AMIn French, "Jean allait au magasin" (imparfait/preterit) et "Jean est allé au magasin" (passé composé/present perfect) have clear different meanings, I assume Talossan works similarly ?

Technically no, the two constructions are stated to be synonymous in Talossan, but I don't think that justifies defaulting to one or the other in all cases.

Quote from: Iac Marscheir on December 22, 2024, 09:57:36 AMIt really isn't arcane. Aspects, being nigh-omnipresent in any language that uses them, are pretty much the first thing you learn about the past tense in any natural Romance language class (except probably Spanish), even if they don't call it by name.

As a concept, they depend on knowledge of tenses in general and the concept of declension/conjugation, which in turn depend on the concept of parts of speech. It is an arcane point for a beginner, so there's no sense introducing the extra complexity unless there's a pretty good reason. If my translation is accurate, even if it's not stylistically to your taste, then I'm not going to change it, although I appreciate the advice. Please keep it coming, and definitely keep helping me!

Me lavéu las maes d'acest. Petreca-te.

"I wash my hands of this. You have fun."

Yeah, that does seem like it's for the best.

*groan* Not happy that people are sniping at each other already.

I've previously argued that one of the reasons we find it hard to get more basic Talossan language materials is that the people who speak the language already are linguistic nerds who find it hard to communicate on the level of someone who thinks every foreign language is a code for English, but that's the level we need to start at it. It doesn't help that the designer of the language didn't really know what he was doing from a high-level linguistics perspective either, so you could argue that he "got it wrong" with making the "imperfect" and "perfect" past tenses equivalent.

Nevertheless, the whole Ladintsch community gotta be polite to one another.

Well, I definitely hear you. And that's the approach I tried to take - not based in linguistics, but based in education. Once folks have a foundation, they can learn the finer points. Or even if they never get that far, they will know the basics of how translation works and can take further steps if they ever choose to.

@Miestră Schivă, UrN , do you anticipate that the government might want to continue with this series? Tafi says that there's no problems with the language in this first one,  and the Government has been promoting it, but I know that's not the same thing as committing further.

Grant funds might be exhausted for this round, but I'd be happy to plan another three lessons to do soon, plus add some more exit ticket problems at the end of the first one. I thought the next lesson could focus on teaching grammatical gender, but don't want to get going if it's sure there's no interest at all. Also, I should hunt up the flashcards and other resources and link them.

Just as a note for the public: I was told to wait for now, since someone else is planning on doing their own introductory series of lessons.  I will leave up my first lesson over at Talossan.net, of course.