In accordance with El Lexhatx C.3.1, I humbly advise the King to appoint
@Sir Lüc as Secretary of State.
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on November 30, 2024, 02:54:33 PMIn accordance with El Lexhatx C.3.1, I humbly advise the King to appoint @Sir Lüc as Secretary of State.
It is with great pleasure that I appoint Sir Luc da Schir as the Secretary of State.
Best of luck Sir Luc!
- Txec R
Open Society congratulates the sauve and debonair
@Sir Lüc on his elevation to Secretary of State and encourages him to issue internal policy concerning the nonpartisanship of the office.
Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on November 30, 2024, 05:16:02 PMsauve and debonair Sir Lüc
A month ago, you called Sir Luc "cute" and "handsome." Now you're calling him "suave and debonair." This isn't criminal behavior, but it is inappropriate (and creepy).
Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on November 30, 2024, 05:16:02 PMand encourages him to issue internal policy concerning the nonpartisanship of the office.
Sir Luc you mentioned your plans to do this upon your taking office and the time is ripe. Besides being sauve and debonair I want to also see the Secretary of State as nonpartisan.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on November 30, 2024, 06:39:14 PMQuote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on November 30, 2024, 05:16:02 PMsauve and debonair Sir Lüc
A month ago, you called Sir Luc "cute" and "handsome." Now you're calling him "suave and debonair." This isn't criminal behavior, but it is inappropriate (and creepy).
The fact that this behaviour is
repeated even though its target has expressed his discomfort with it - and the fact that the perpetrator understands that discomfort, doesn't care, and just keeps going - shows that it is intended as harassment, even if it does not (yet) rise to the legal definition of that under law. Wittenberg moderators need to be authorised to stamp this stuff out.
I do not support legal action, since I dislike the precedent set by someone having their speech suppressed for being gross and unpleasant to a member of an opposing political party.
However, the last person to act in this specific way was Iusti Canun, who would sometimes write me to tell me that he thought I was handsome. It was creepy. As we all know, that sort of behavior didn't bode well. I hope Breneir reconsiders this course of action upon reflection. It's possible to make a comeback after almost anything in Talossa, but no one has ever continued in the country after openly establishing themselves as a sex pest.
Breneir, obviously you'll never just think about your behavior, realize that even "playful" sexual harassment is wrong, and apologize. So I would encourage you to just do the same thing you did with your grudge against Txec: seize on some plausible shred of principle that's involved, and loudly pretend you were trying to make a point about that principle. If you do a good job, it might even seem real. Do not double down and make a big deal about how it's somehow really important that you get to say creepy shit to a young person. He doesn't deserve that, and no one will tolerate it.
Maybe this is really about freedom of speech, for example? You just want to be able to speak your mind without Government censorship, perhaps.
:) Miestra continues to be adorable.
And, yeah, Baron, of course you are handsome.
See? Not just Luc...the late Sir Ian, Carlus and Marcel have great voices.
And I'd like to read Txec's writing so that I can compliment him too.
I am pretty free-flowing with compliments. And that is not going to change especially when none of them are inappropriate.
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on November 30, 2024, 08:52:07 PMThe fact that this behaviour is repeated even though its target has expressed his discomfort with it
When?
"Remember, class, if the target of harassment doesn't personally make a plea for you to stop, you should ignore everyone and keep on complimenting their appearance. Don't stop and ask yourself whether or not your behavior is welcome, or whether or not you are making others uncomfortable. The most important thing is how you feel."(https://i.imgur.com/PNqZQ7r.jpeg)
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on November 30, 2024, 10:02:20 PM"Remember, class, if the target of harassment doesn't personally make a plea for you to stop, you should ignore everyone and keep on complimenting their appearance. Don't stop and ask yourself whether or not your behavior is welcome, or whether or not you are making others uncomfortable. The most important thing is how you feel."
(https://i.imgur.com/PNqZQ7r.jpeg)
Notice no answer to the question which challenged an inaccurate assertion.
As Miestra claimed, when did Luc state that my compliments made him uncomfortable?
Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on November 30, 2024, 10:26:57 PMAs Miestra claimed, when did Luc state that my compliments made him uncomfortable?
Is it ever required that the target of possible harassment is required to complain for it to be harassment?
Of course, I'm no longer the SoS and Witt admin, but even I can admit when there is thread drift so...
Quote from: King Txec on November 30, 2024, 10:45:12 PMQuote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on November 30, 2024, 10:26:57 PMAs Miestra claimed, when did Luc state that my compliments made him uncomfortable?
Is it ever required that the target of possible harassment is required to complain for it to be harassment?
No but it is generally expected for people to tell the truth (and not substitute their own discomfort) if they have. Miestra stated that Luc said I made him uncomfortable which is not true.
Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on November 30, 2024, 10:48:47 PMMiestra stated that Luc said I made him uncomfortable which is not true.
I beg you to consider that people sometimes say things in forums to which you're not invited. If Sir Lüc had not communicated *clearly* to me that he doesn't appreciate your remarks, I would have ignored them.
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on November 30, 2024, 10:51:58 PMQuote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on November 30, 2024, 10:48:47 PMMiestra stated that Luc said I made him uncomfortable which is not true.
I beg you to consider that people sometimes say things in forums to which you're not invited.
You lied and said that he made a statement of discomfort (that I knew of) and I continued to make the compliment.
You have repeatedly complimented the personal appearance of a young person. These compliments were not solicited or reciprocated.
Several people have told you that this flirting is inappropriate and unwelcome, including some of the target's friends. It is making other people uncomfortable.
Is there something wrong with you that you think this behavior is still okay?
Seriously: Do not double down and make a big deal about how it's somehow really important that you get to say creepy shit to a young person. He doesn't deserve that, and no one will tolerate it.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on November 30, 2024, 10:58:19 PMYou have repeatedly complimented the personal appearance of a young person. These compliments were not solicited or reciprocated.
Several people have told you that this flirting is inappropriate and unwelcome, including some of the target's friends. It is making other people uncomfortable.
Is there something wrong with you that you think this behavior is still okay?
Seriously: Do not double down and make a big deal about how it's somehow really important that you get to say creepy shit to a young person. He doesn't deserve that, and no one will tolerate it.
Darling, I complimented you and three other people just now. I said Miestra's reaction was adorable. Again, I don't think my compliments were inappropriate toward Luc or towards any others, Baron.
Mind your language.
No one is mystified about what you're doing. We are very capable of understanding your thinking: you screwed up and got really creepy, and so you're being creepy to a bunch of other people as quickly as possible. It's like when a small child gets caught breaking the rule, so they pretend not to understand the rule.
We just don't understand why you'd do this, unless the prospect of just admitting you screwed up is so painful you'd rather shoot yourself in the foot a bunch of times again.
Like, do you think there's a legion of creepy old uncles lurking on Wittenberg who will come flying to your rescue, saying, "No, Breneir is right! I should be able to say whatever I want to my little niece, unless she specifically tells me to stop! I should be able to smell her, too! Give me her socks unless she said no, in writing and in triplicate and under sworn oath!"
Also: please don't talk about my appearance or flirt with me. It's creepy, since we're not friendly.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on November 30, 2024, 11:09:35 PMNo one is mystified about what you're doing. We are very capable of understanding your thinking: you screwed up and got really creepy, and so you're being creepy to a bunch of other people as quickly as possible. It's like when a small child gets caught breaking the rule, so they pretend not to understand the rule.
Also: please don't talk about my appearance or flirt with me. It's creepy, since we're not friendly and you're actually even repeating the same things a convicted pedophile said to me.
That's an amazing imagination you got there, Baron. At least this post didn't have curse words in it.
I said Luc was handsome and then agreed with the former RUMP seneschal-turned convicted pedophile that you were too. You brought that into the mix lol. Not flirting just an opinion which clearly you've heard before.
@Sir Lüc Now that the sideshow is over concerning compliments please take this opportunity to issue the internal policy. I know your appointment is just hours old but I refer you to King Txec's statement in his address on taking the throne which deserves praise.
Quote from: King Txec on November 30, 2024, 03:22:01 PMQuote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on November 30, 2024, 02:54:33 PMIn accordance with El Lexhatx C.3.1, I humbly advise the King to appoint @Sir Lüc as Secretary of State.
It is with great pleasure that I appoint Sir Luc da Schir as the Secretary of State.
Best of luck Sir Luc!
- Txec R
Thank you Regeu Txec!
Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on November 30, 2024, 09:40:11 PMNot just Luc...the late Sir Ian, Carlus and Marcel have great voices.
Please leave me out of this.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on November 30, 2024, 09:28:04 PMI do not support legal action, since I dislike the precedent set by someone having their speech suppressed for being gross and unpleasant to a member of an opposing political party.
However, the last person to act in this specific way was Iusti Canun, who would sometimes write me to tell me that he thought I was handsome. It was creepy. As we all know, that sort of behavior didn't bode well. I hope Breneir reconsiders this course of action upon reflection. It's possible to make a comeback after almost anything in Talossa, but no one has ever continued in the country after openly establishing themselves as a sex pest.
Breneir, obviously you'll never just think about your behavior, realize that even "playful" sexual harassment is wrong, and apologize. So I would encourage you to just do the same thing you did with your grudge against Txec: seize on some plausible shred of principle that's involved, and loudly pretend you were trying to make a point about that principle. If you do a good job, it might even seem real. Do not double down and make a big deal about how it's somehow really important that you get to say creepy shit to a young person. He doesn't deserve that, and no one will tolerate it.
Maybe this is really about freedom of speech, for example? You just want to be able to speak your mind without Government censorship, perhaps.
Agreed that legal action would be too much, but I do think the comments made violate at least wittiquette #8 and maybe #3 (although harrassment isnt explicitly mentioned), so on that basis a moderator could intervene if it happens again, either by editing the offending bits or giving a warning. Obviously we should be careful not to censor political debate for minor violations, but when comments seem purely intended to be patronising or bordering on harrassment without making any sort of political point moderators may decide to moderate.
Yeah, fair enough. Definitely at a certain point, things would have gone too far and just become plain sexual harassment, which merits action. There's definitely a line that can be crossed, regardless of free speech concerns.
Fortunately, he seems to have taken another route out of this, shifting to less problematic language and choosing other targets.
Folks, I've not chosen "other targets" and have not chosen another route.