The Judicial Retirement Retirement Act
WHEREAS the judicial tenure section of the law is long and appears mostly pointless, and also it's weird to have these elaborate requirements for how we're supposed to address retired magistrates, and we should have simpler laws when we can, and WHEREAS if these are bringing anyone real joy through their use, please just say so and we can keep them,THEREFORE, section 11 of Title G, which currently reads:
Quote11. Judicial Tenure.
Judges of the Uppermost Cort[121] and of any inferior court may retire through voluntary leave of office. This shall be accomplished through submitting a letter of retirement to the King. The retirement shall take effect immediately upon confirmed receipt by the King or an authorized representative.
11.1. Uppermost Cort Judges may be compelled to retire through organic removal from office through an act of the Ziu in accordance with Article VIII of the Organic Law. In accordance with the appropriate section, the inactivity of a Justice is defined as the failure of that Justice to act, rule, or appear in an open case the Justice is assigned to or participating in for more than 60 days, as certified by the Ziu in a majority vote.
11.1.1 A Justice of the Cort pü Inalt shall be declared inactive, and to have vacated their seat, within the meaning of Organic Law VIII, if the Clerk of the Corts, contacting the members of the CpI to assign a case as described in this title, is unable to contact that Justice or does not receive any response to their enquiries, within 30 days.
11.2. Retired Judges or Magistrates shall enjoy the style "Honourable Mister/Madame" for life in commemoration of their service to the Nation, and may utilize the title "Retired Judge/Magistrate."
11.3. Retired status will be honorary in nature and shall not confer any authority or responsibility within any Talossan Court or the National Talossan Bar or over its members, students or associates. Neither shall these titles, in and of themselves, confer membership in the National Talossan Bar enabling the holder to engage in the practice of law.
11.4. Retired status can be revoked only in the event of a conviction by a Talossan Court for misconduct while serving in a judicial capacity. In the event of such conviction, revocation of retirement privileges shall be contained as part of the sentencing order. Retired status can also be revoked by the Ziu through majority vote, without needing to go through committee, and approval by the Monarch. Such legislative action can be taken only after the retiree has been convicted by a Talossan Court for misconduct while serving in a judicial capacity and only after all appeals have been exhausted.
11.5. Retired status will also be revoked in the event the retiree shall be convicted of a felony by any Court of the Realm. Felony convictions by a provincial court shall be forwarded to the Minister of Justice for review. If cause for revocation of retirement status is found based upon the nature of the conviction, the Minister of Justice shall propose or cause to be proposed a measure of the Ziu to revoke any and all privileges of retirement from the accused, after all appeals have been exhausted.
11.6. Retired status shall be considered waived if a retired Justice, Judge or Magistrate resigns their citizenship and shall be considered revoked if the retiree has their citizenship terminated by a Court of the Realm.
11.7 Every person appointed a judge to the Uppermost Cort[121] of Talossa shall publicly make to the Citizens of Talossa and subscribe to the following declaration within 10 days of such appointment:
I, [NAME], do solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm and declare that I will duly, faithfully and to the best of my knowledge and ability execute the office of Judge of El Cort pü Inalt without fear or favour, affection or ill will towards any man, woman or child and that I will uphold the Organic Law and the laws of the Kingdom of Talossa. This I do solemnly affirm.
is replaced in its entirety with the following text:
Quote11.1. Uppermost Cort Judges may be compelled to retire through organic removal from office through an act of the Ziu in accordance with Article VIII of the Organic Law. In accordance with the appropriate section, the inactivity of a Justice is defined as the failure of that Justice to act, rule, or appear in an open case the Justice is assigned to or participating in for more than 60 days, as certified by the Ziu in a majority vote.
11.2. Every person appointed a judge to the Uppermost Cort[121] of Talossa shall publicly make to the Citizens of Talossa and subscribe to the following declaration within 10 days of such appointment:
I, [NAME], do solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm and declare that I will duly, faithfully and to the best of my knowledge and ability execute the office of Judge of El Cort pü Inalt without fear or favour, affection or ill will towards any man, woman or child and that I will uphold the Organic Law and the laws of the Kingdom of Talossa. This I do solemnly affirm.
Uréu q'estadra så:
Alexandreu Davinescu (MC-PROG)
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 08, 2024, 09:22:28 PMThe Judicial Retirement and Medals Removal Act
WHEREAS the judicial tenure section of the law is long and appears mostly pointless, and also it's weird to have these elaborate requirements for how we're supposed to address retired magistrates, and we should have simpler laws when we can, and
WHEREAS there should probably be only one class of Seneschal's medal, since I mean come on, plus honorifics are mostly a little silly unless extremely warranted, and
WHEREAS if these are bringing anyone real joy through their use, please just say so and we can keep them,
THEREFORE, section 11 of Title G, which currently reads:
Quote11. Judicial Tenure.
Judges of the Uppermost Cort[121] and of any inferior court may retire through voluntary leave of office. This shall be accomplished through submitting a letter of retirement to the King. The retirement shall take effect immediately upon confirmed receipt by the King or an authorized representative.
11.1. Uppermost Cort Judges may be compelled to retire through organic removal from office through an act of the Ziu in accordance with Article VIII of the Organic Law. In accordance with the appropriate section, the inactivity of a Justice is defined as the failure of that Justice to act, rule, or appear in an open case the Justice is assigned to or participating in for more than 60 days, as certified by the Ziu in a majority vote.
11.1.1 A Justice of the Cort pü Inalt shall be declared inactive, and to have vacated their seat, within the meaning of Organic Law VIII, if the Clerk of the Corts, contacting the members of the CpI to assign a case as described in this title, is unable to contact that Justice or does not receive any response to their enquiries, within 30 days.
11.2. Retired Judges or Magistrates shall enjoy the style "Honourable Mister/Madame" for life in commemoration of their service to the Nation, and may utilize the title "Retired Judge/Magistrate."
11.3. Retired status will be honorary in nature and shall not confer any authority or responsibility within any Talossan Court or the National Talossan Bar or over its members, students or associates. Neither shall these titles, in and of themselves, confer membership in the National Talossan Bar enabling the holder to engage in the practice of law.
11.4. Retired status can be revoked only in the event of a conviction by a Talossan Court for misconduct while serving in a judicial capacity. In the event of such conviction, revocation of retirement privileges shall be contained as part of the sentencing order. Retired status can also be revoked by the Ziu through majority vote, without needing to go through committee, and approval by the Monarch. Such legislative action can be taken only after the retiree has been convicted by a Talossan Court for misconduct while serving in a judicial capacity and only after all appeals have been exhausted.
11.5. Retired status will also be revoked in the event the retiree shall be convicted of a felony by any Court of the Realm. Felony convictions by a provincial court shall be forwarded to the Minister of Justice for review. If cause for revocation of retirement status is found based upon the nature of the conviction, the Minister of Justice shall propose or cause to be proposed a measure of the Ziu to revoke any and all privileges of retirement from the accused, after all appeals have been exhausted.
11.6. Retired status shall be considered waived if a retired Justice, Judge or Magistrate resigns their citizenship and shall be considered revoked if the retiree has their citizenship terminated by a Court of the Realm.
11.7 Every person appointed a judge to the Uppermost Cort[121] of Talossa shall publicly make to the Citizens of Talossa and subscribe to the following declaration within 10 days of such appointment:
I, [NAME], do solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm and declare that I will duly, faithfully and to the best of my knowledge and ability execute the office of Judge of El Cort pü Inalt without fear or favour, affection or ill will towards any man, woman or child and that I will uphold the Organic Law and the laws of the Kingdom of Talossa. This I do solemnly affirm.
is replaced in its entirety with the following text:
Quote11. Every person appointed a judge to the Uppermost Cort[121] of Talossa shall publicly make to the Citizens of Talossa and subscribe to the following declaration within 10 days of such appointment:
I, [NAME], do solemnly, sincerely and truly affirm and declare that I will duly, faithfully and to the best of my knowledge and ability execute the office of Judge of El Cort pü Inalt without fear or favour, affection or ill will towards any man, woman or child and that I will uphold the Organic Law and the laws of the Kingdom of Talossa. This I do solemnly affirm.
FURTHERMORE, subection 41.2.1.2 of Title F, which currently reads:
QuoteThe Seneschal's Medals: The Seneschal's Medal is the highest award given by the government of Talossa. The Seneschal's Medal is awarded by the Seneschal for outstanding contributions to the Kingdom and are awarded in the following categories:
41.2.1.2.1. The Seneschal's Medal for the Arts – Honorific of SMA
41.2.1.2.2. The Seneschal's Medal for Science – Honorific of SMS
41.2.1.2.3. The Seneschal's Medal for Culture – Honorific of SMC
41.2.1.2.4. The Seneschal's Medal for Literature and Language – Honorific of SML
41.2.1.2.5. The Seneschal's Medal for Merit – Honorific of SMM
shall be replaced by the following text:
QuoteThe Seneschal's Medals: The Seneschal's Medal is the highest award given by the government of Talossa. The Seneschal's Medal is awarded by the Seneschal for outstanding contributions to the Kingdom.
Uréu q'estadra så:
Alexandreu Davinescu (MC-PROG)
What is your thinking behind removing all this?
I don't think anyone uses the judicial retirement stuff, and I don't think we use the different varieties of medal enough to warrant their existence.
Hmm, but that also removes the ability to retire a judge that has gone inactive. Is that your intent?
Oh, no. I meant to retain that clause. Good catch, thank you.
Okay, fixed. Amusingly enough, looking up that provision is what drew my attention to that bit of the law in the first place.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 09, 2024, 05:16:57 AMOh, no. I meant to retain that clause. Good catch, thank you.
No problem.
Is there any particular reason why this bill seeks to repeal two (sets of) provisions that are entirely unrelated to each other? I should say this is perfectly permissible in Talossa, though bad practice debatably, but it strikes me as an odd choice to do this when there's no apparent reason not to Hopper two separate bills.
No, no particular reason beyond the fact that they are related in spirit: two sets of laws that are unnecessary and unused.
You raise a good point that they could usefully be put into two bills for a separate consideration. I'll be happy to do that.
Updated this to focus on just the one issue -- could it be please moved to the CRL?
Approved
non blocking remark : Even if Section 5 of Article VIII of OrgLaw is not that clear on Inactivity, I think we should make it clearer in the law and replace "In accordance with the appropriate section" by "In accordance with Section 5 of this Article".
Approved then.
Recommending approval on this one. Looks good and I appreciate simplifying this fairly messy section.
I can't believe we got all the way through this debate without any comment on the fact that this bill repeals El Lex G.11.1.1:
Quote11.1.1 A Justice of the Cort pü Inalt shall be declared inactive, and to have vacated
their seat, within the meaning of Organic Law VIII, if the Clerk of the Corts, contacting
the members of the CpI to assign a case as described in this title, is unable to contact
that Justice or does not receive any response to their enquiries, within 30 days.
...without mention or justification of why that is being deleted, but the other provision for judicial "force-retirement" isn't. Too late now but to vote down, I suppose; my fault for being distracted by other events not to have picked this up until now.
As the Clerk, I feel uncomfortable with that provision. If I get no response, the appropriate thing for me to do is to tell the Ziu.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on February 02, 2025, 10:23:16 AMAs the Clerk, I feel uncomfortable with that provision. If I get no response, the appropriate thing for me to do is to tell the Ziu.
Understood; but removing this clause means that there is now no way to "force retire" a Judge unless they get assigned to a case first.
Yeah, that's a valid concern. But I would point out that they also are subject to the reappointment requirement every 5 years.
Quote from: King Txec on December 08, 2024, 11:41:36 PMHmm, but that also removes the ability to retire a judge that has gone inactive. Is that your intent?
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 09, 2024, 05:16:57 AMOh, no. I meant to retain that clause. Good catch, thank you.
So it would seem the clause was not retained and the bill's author has changed his mind on whether he meant to. See below.
No, I fixed my error and added back in:
11.1. Uppermost Cort Judges may be compelled to retire through organic removal from office through an act of the Ziu in accordance with Article VIII of the Organic Law. In accordance with the appropriate section, the inactivity of a Justice is defined as the failure of that Justice to act, rule, or appear in an open case the Justice is assigned to or participating in for more than 60 days, as certified by the Ziu in a majority vote.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on February 02, 2025, 05:09:38 PMNo, I fixed my error and added back in:
11.1. Uppermost Cort Judges may be compelled to retire through organic removal from office through an act of the Ziu in accordance with Article VIII of the Organic Law. In accordance with the appropriate section, the inactivity of a Justice is defined as the failure of that Justice to act, rule, or appear in an open case the Justice is assigned to or participating in for more than 60 days, as certified by the Ziu in a majority vote.
Sorry, was looking at the old version in a quote, not the final text. Need to read more carefully next time.
@Baron Alexandreu Davinescu , would you be amenable to a subsequent bill (next term) that adds back in a modified 11.1.1 as follows:
"If the Clerk of the Corts, contacting the members of the CpI to assign a case as described in this title, is unable to contact a Judge or does not receive any response to their enquiries within 30 days, they shall notify the Ziu. The Ziu may then certify that the judge is inactive and has vacated their seat."
Sure, that would be great. Sounds like a fair way to play it.