Azul,
Approximately a month ago I spoke with a representative from a London-based communications company that is looking for a micro-nation to partner with. They have a client that wants to partner in a headline-grabbing creative campaign with us as they develop their program. The idea presented to me was that we would launch the worlds first fully-AI governmental departmental minister that would be an entertaining and thought-provoking opportunity for journalists to write about.
From one of the email contacts, I quote "Talossa is already a remarkable institution with a good story to tell, the whole thing comes together as a fascinating news story for press to report on. You can imagine the headline of "This futuristic micronation is the first state to appoint an AI government [agent]."
I spoke at length via Zoom with their representative and I was assured that we would not have anything to do on our end, except allowing their AI to interact. The team from media agency would do all the work.
I presented this opportunity to the Cabinet and now I am presenting it to the nation for further discussion.
-Txec R
(This topic was originally posted a week ago but I took it down to give the cabinet more time).
I love it. The AI could be responsible for quizzing people about why they want to immigrate, or it could be a new minister of information designed to provide answers to people based on our existing corpus of literature and the wiki.
I've invited their representative to join the Landing Pier so we can learn more directly. Hopefully more will come from this.
-Txec R
I urge the Crown to immediately reject this proposal in the strongest of terms, to suspend the invitation indefinitely, and to make a public statement categorically refusing this type of engagement with our nation.
We
Do
Not
Need
AI
Here
I'm old and I've seen too many movies probably but I dislike and fear AI
Frankly, considering the ways AI affects the spaces it's allowed into, the fact that this was being considered—and left undisclosed—without some kind of popular approval beforehand is appalling.
At this time, the only thing discussed was the fact of the proposal, so I'm not sure why it would be appalling that an outside group made a proposal.
-Txec R
We do not need AI in Talossa. It's perfect as it is.
I'm surprised. What exactly are people afraid of? I think it would be cool to have an AI that knew all about our history and stuff.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 03, 2025, 08:04:55 AMI'm surprised. What exactly are people afraid of? I think it would be cool to have an AI that knew all about our history and stuff.
I'm not "afraid", I just don't want Talossa to be influenced by AI. We do not need it, we're perfectly fine without it.
If it does get implemented as a government agent
I am leaving Talossa for good. I will rejoin if it would get removed.
The big story is not the AI, but the media exposure for Talossa. The worlds press will train its attention on the first ever country to have an AI minister. That seems pretty cool to me. Beside that, what do you think this AI will do? Take over everything? It will be a novelty. Allow Max to answer some questions at the very least. I'm not saying we should do it, but we should keep an open mind.
-Txec R
Because you're talking about handing over control of Talossa's image to a glorified, plagiaristic chatbot.
You have no idea what it'll say, and you have no way to control it. It has no loyalty to fact. For all you know, it could say we had a province named after a fascist dictator because we collectively hate Jews, for example.
Quote from: Iac Marscheir on June 03, 2025, 08:12:50 AMBecause you're talking about handing over control of Talossa's image to a glorified, plagiaristic chatbot.
You have no idea what it'll say, and you have no way to control it. It has no loyalty to fact. For all you know, it could say we had a province named after a fascist dictator because we collectively hate Jews, for example.
Exactly, AI is unpredictable.
Besides, this quid pro quo of "use our AI and we'll pay you in exposure" is really scummy-looking.
Quote from: Iac Marscheir on June 03, 2025, 08:26:47 AMBesides, this quid pro quo of "use our AI and we'll pay you in exposure" is really scummy-looking.
It's a scam. Besides, we don't know the compamy's name.
Quote from: King Txec on June 03, 2025, 08:12:36 AMThe big story is not the AI, but the media exposure for Talossa. The worlds press will train its attention on the first ever country to have an AI minister. That seems pretty cool to me. Beside that, what do you think this AI will do? Take over everything? It will be a novelty. Allow Max to answer some questions at the very least. I'm not saying we should do it, but we should keep an open mind.
-Txec R
As evidence I give you all of the AI generated migrant applications we have been receiving.
Quote from: Iac Marscheir on June 03, 2025, 08:12:50 AMBecause you're talking about handing over control of Talossa's image to a glorified, plagiaristic chatbot.
You have no idea what it'll say, and you have no way to control it. It has no loyalty to fact. For all you know, it could say we had a province named after a fascist dictator because we collectively hate Jews, for example.
I hope this project would be done in a responsible way. Obviously, we shouldn't do this if it will entail "handing over control" of... well, anything really. But to me, it seems like there wouldn't be any harm in hearing them out. Even the publicity of being
considered for this project would be helpful.
Inherent to this proposal is the idea of letting journalists write publications based on the output of a chatbot that, again, nobody has any control over. It's a massive publicity disaster waiting to happen, and that's before you consider that the publicity would mostly attract people who care more about hyping the AI than the nation.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 03, 2025, 08:58:27 AMEven the publicity of being considered for this project would be helpful.
This presupposes that we were the only or at worst one of a select few micronations appoached (highly unlikely) and that it would generate any publicity in the first place (also highly unlikely). I cannot possibly imagine that "Micronation adds chatbot integration" would be something that anyone would report on.
It is also very possible that it will expose the less than stellar former citizens. It could expose Talossa as a harborer of criminals. I don't know how much the media representative can see so I won't go into details here except to say that the incident in question was resolved and the person is (as far as I know) no longer a citizen.
The fact of our own existence combined with the novelty might well get some eyeballs. The vast majority of people aren't aware of Talossa, so that's an angle that will get people interested, a la "A small country located entirely within the city of Milwaukee has persisted in claiming independence since 1979... and now they're also claiming to be the first country to appoint an artificial intelligence as a government minister."
There are a lot of valid concerns, but surely it's something worth exploring as we hear them out? I mean, it's a risk, but sometimes you need to take some risks. Reunision was a risk, too, and that was definitely a great choice.
If the government tries to install a chatbot as a government official, I'll find a way to file suit, and if that doesn't fix the problem (because, yes, AI is a problem, not a solution), I'll renounce my citizenship, likely for good if there actually is any publicity.
These are the stakes, and I know they are low. I know Talossa would quickly move on without me. But that's integrity: Doing the right thing when you know nobody cares.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 03, 2025, 09:14:30 AMThe fact of our own existence combined with the novelty might well get some eyeballs.
I know for a fact that there are a lot of micronations that adopted a cryptocurrecy during the big crypto hype. How many articles did you see talking about them? I haven't seen a single one. I have no reason to believe that Talossa would fare any better publicitywise with AI.
Quote from: Iac Marscheir on June 03, 2025, 09:18:34 AMIf the government tries to install a chatbot as a government official, I'll find a way to file suit, and if that doesn't fix the problem (because, yes, AI is a problem, not a solution), I'll renounce my citizenship, likely for good if there actually is any publicity.
These are the stakes, and I know they are low. I know Talossa would quickly move on without me. But that's integrity: Doing the right thing when you know nobody cares.
Like I've said here, I will do the same.
I hope that the Government does the responsible thing and explores the idea, privately, even if it doesn't work out as a good idea.
Folks, let's take a breath here and relax. No one is saying we will do anything at all. What we are doing is the responsible thing and presenting to the kingdom something that was brought to us to consider. Threats of renunciation are not helpful when no one is being forced to do anything. I felt it was my duty as your king to bring to your attention something that could be a benefit and could be a not so good thing.
For starters, we do know the name of the AI company, but the media company that approached us asked to avoid using its name publicly to avoid what they termed "spiking the press" in advance of any possible announcements. There is nothing nefarious there.
I firmly believe I would have been shirking my duties if I had simply ignored this possibility because sometimes ideas that seem wacky or out of left field can spark creative approaches. Maybe we don't use their idea but it gets someone thinking of another new or novel thing that will keep making Talossa great! Love the idea or leave it behind, it is up to the kingdom. I have no personal stake in the matter. Let's have a reasonable discussion and not throw out fear before we even have all the facts.
-Txec R
I think it is worthwhile to hear more information. I doubt the AI minister will have any powers that couldn't otherwise be controlled or monitored—probably would lack any actual powers. As a publicity stunt, it would be interesting. I don't think we should outright reject anyone that reaches out or may wish to work with the Kingdom. (Of course, the discourse over whether we should have an AI minister would, itself, be notable.)
@King Txec We do have all the facts, and the fact is, we don't need AI here. I'm not making idle threats over petty fears. I sincerely believe—and I have the past 10 years of cycles of tech-hype, FOMO and starry eyes followed by reality checks to back me up on this—that taking this "opportunity" would at the very least be a massive mistake, and at the worst, possibly become a catalyst for something that destroys the nation completely.
We're nothing but press-piggies to them, and you're letting yourself be used.
I for one think the King should always do what he is doing here: Presenting an offer to the citizenry and the government in the name of transparency, and not making any decisions on behalf of the Kingdom as a single individual.
Quote from: Munditenens Tresplet on June 03, 2025, 01:54:29 PMI for one think the King should always do what he is doing here: Presenting an offer to the citizenry and the government in the name of transparency, and not making any decisions on behalf of the Kingdom as a single individual.
Agreed. I don't blame His Majesty for bringing this up, even though I do hope the answer of citizenry and government is a resounding "no thanks, leave us alone please".
Quote from: King Txec on June 03, 2025, 04:30:01 AMI was assured that we would not have anything to do on our end, except allowing their AI to interact.
And subvert our democratic processes by making a chatbot minister presumably.
Anyway, I don't want to interact with AI. Interacting with fellow citizens is more than enough for me, because I value you all as human beings. (At least I assume you all are. To be fair the only one I'm 100% certain of is Lüc :p ) What is the main purpose of AI if not to copy our humanity and creativity and sell it to the highest bidder?
Quote from: Munditenens Tresplet on June 03, 2025, 11:21:45 AMI doubt the AI minister will have any powers that couldn't otherwise be controlled or monitored—probably would lack any actual powers.
Well if it didn't have any actual responsibilities, it wouldn't really be a minister would it?
Can't we just do the one where we change our laws to have someone marry the statute of liberty? At least that proposal was somewhat funny.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 03, 2025, 09:53:31 AMI hope that the Government does the responsible thing and explores the idea, privately, even if it doesn't work out as a good idea.
The Government has already explored the idea privately. Why do you think it's taken a month to go public, lol :D
I, personally, am vehemently opposed to the idea, for reasons I'll explore in another post, but that was not a Cabinet consensus. So after a lot of discussion, and posting questions to these people, we decided to advise His Maj to make the proposal public.
Quote from: Glüc on June 03, 2025, 03:38:00 PMQuote from: Munditenens Tresplet on June 03, 2025, 11:21:45 AMI doubt the AI minister will have any powers that couldn't otherwise be controlled or monitored—probably would lack any actual powers.
Well if it didn't have any actual responsibilities, it wouldn't really be a minister would it?
Without yet hearing more about the proposal, so far, that seems to be the point.
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC on June 03, 2025, 03:38:56 PMQuote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 03, 2025, 09:53:31 AMI hope that the Government does the responsible thing and explores the idea, privately, even if it doesn't work out as a good idea.
The Government has already explored the idea privately. Why do you think it's taken a month to go public, lol :D
I, personally, am vehemently opposed to the idea, for reasons I'll explore in another post, but that was not a Cabinet consensus. So after a lot of discussion, and posting questions to these people, we decided to advise His Maj to make the proposal public.
Excellent! I'm glad that you guys did your due diligence and explored the idea. Okay, so what other details can you share then, from that process? I think that would help a lot of people know how to react to this news.
Quote from: Munditenens Tresplet on June 03, 2025, 03:41:09 PMQuote from: Glüc on June 03, 2025, 03:38:00 PMQuote from: Munditenens Tresplet on June 03, 2025, 11:21:45 AMI doubt the AI minister will have any powers that couldn't otherwise be controlled or monitored—probably would lack any actual powers.
Well if it didn't have any actual responsibilities, it wouldn't really be a minister would it?
Without yet hearing more about the proposal, so far, that seems to be the point.
More like an AI Advisor.
If that doesn't work out, we can probably reprogram it to be the court's jester.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 03, 2025, 03:54:52 PMso what other details can you share then, from that process?
Well, we created a list of questions from this company and got a list of answers in return -
@Mic'haglh Autófil, O.Be was the point man on this, and I'll ask Cabinet for permission to republish those.
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC on June 03, 2025, 04:10:10 PMQuote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 03, 2025, 03:54:52 PMso what other details can you share then, from that process?
Well, we created a list of questions from this company and got a list of answers in return - @Mic'haglh Autófil, O.Be was the point man on this, and I'll ask Cabinet for permission to republish those.
Alrght, so:
Quote- What degree of control would we retain over this AI model, and what would be controlled by (Company)? For that matter, what amount of "human control" is still necessary/possible?
- In actual practice (not that we will communicate this as part of the story), it is likely to be as simple as (Company) granting you free access to its Premium platform, and building a bespoke agent/agents (something they can do very quickly and easily, since it's their core service) on your behalf, to match the needs of the story. Think of each agent as very sophisticated and ultra-tailored version of Chat-GPT, which is programmed to focus on a specific task or tasks. You can do nothing with them, or put them to work, as you wish.
- They aren't seeking any payment from us, but would they require anything else? What sort of paperwork (especially legal paperwork) is involved? We would almost certainly have to sign some sort of contract.
- Contracts, especially legal, certainly won't be necessary.
- Can they give us more information on how this would be marketed?
- In terms of how we'll market the story, please see my explanation below of how we'll take this to press. We will have (Company) post secured articles from their social media channels, too.
- Why a Cabinet post? Why not something simpler at first, like citizenship in general?
- A Cabinet post will be necessary to grab our contacts' attention, as a truly novel and fun innovation. We know how to craft these things to capture the interest of top-tier media. Of course, as mentioned, we wouldn't communicate anything without your blessing.
- What sort of data does this model collect?
- No more data is collected than for any of (Company)'s many thousands of corporate customers (I assume a user email address and anything else you'd expect of a SaaS).
An explanation of the marketing process they mentioned mentioned above:QuoteOur team would manage the full process - drafting written materials for press, creating the AI workforce, and media placement. All we would need from your side is approval of press materials before they are shared with journalists, a written quote (which we can draft for you if helpful), and potentially being available for interview by an interested journalist. Otherwise, we'd keep the ask on you to an absolute minimum.
Will things such as my real name, email address, home address be available to this "AI" or the company controlling it?
Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on June 03, 2025, 11:23:04 PMWill things such as my real name, email address, home address be available to this "AI" or the company controlling it?
That's also my personal concern.
QuoteIn actual practice (not that we will communicate this as part of the story), it is likely to be as simple as (Company) granting you free access to its Premium platform, and building a bespoke agent/agents (something they can do very quickly and easily, since it's their core service) on your behalf, to match the needs of the story. Think of each agent as very sophisticated and ultra-tailored version of Chat-GPT, which is programmed to focus on a specific task or tasks. You can do nothing with them, or put them to work, as you wish.
So it will be an agent like a ChatGPT agent -- a version of their LLM that is tailored to specific tasks and trained on specific information -- but only privately available? It won't have direct access to Wittenberg or anything like that, it seems, so any communication would be mediated by someone else to post here. That's good... it means we won't need to worry about it saying something horrible.
QuoteWhy a Cabinet post? Why not something simpler at first, like citizenship in general?[/b]
A Cabinet post will be necessary to grab our contacts' attention, as a truly novel and fun innovation. We know how to craft these things to capture the interest of top-tier media. Of course, as mentioned, we wouldn't communicate anything without your blessing.
Legally, I believe honorary citizenship could be granted to an LLM. But we wouldn't have to do that. Only the Seneschal is required to be a Talossan -- and thus, a person.
QuoteNo more data is collected than for any of (Company)'s many thousands of corporate customers (I assume a user email address and anything else you'd expect of a SaaS).
Even though I'm excited by this, that's a suspicious answer, lol.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 04, 2025, 07:43:27 AMI believe honorary citizenship could be granted to an LLM.
I am *not* putting a chatbot on the same legal footing as a living, breathing, Talossan human, and that's final.
Yes, I was saying that it wouldn't necessary to do that.
I guess there really isn't any point in discussing this anymore.
Given the level of discomfort with this proposed opportunity, I plan on notifying Max that Talossa will politely decline the offer. While I did find this an interesting opportunity and hoped we'd be able to explore it more, I admit to being disappointed at the same time. Talossa, in my opinion, needs non-political and creative things to do if we hope to draw new, active citizens and bring back some of our old friends as well. I'll keep looking out for new ideas and I hope others will as well.
-Txec R