Wittenberg

Azul,

At the behest of the Seneschal and the Cabinet, and upon my recommendation, I am hereby establishing the Royal Commission on Immigration. The Royal Commission will be tasked with taking a hard look at our immigration policies and pipeline with an end result of making actionable recommendations directly to the Ziu and to the People.

The Royal Commission will be bi-partisan and will be chaired by the King. Its membership, while yet to be determined, will be made up of members of both the governing and opposition parties. The King will be asking members to join. While this initiative is fully supported by the government, it is not being run by the government, but by the Crown. Our work will be conducted in public. I would like to ask @Sir Lüc to create a sub-board somewhere on Witt that would be appropriate and provide myself with moderation rights on that board. I would also like to ask that for now, only members of the Royal Commission should be able to post, but all citizens should be able to see the board.

I look forward to what this Royal Commission will be able to accomplish to address the immigration issue. I hope that all of Talossa will join me in supporting this process.

-Txec R

I have reached out to four citizens at this point and asked them to join the Royal Commission. I will keep everyone posted.

-Txec R

Quote from: King Txec on July 03, 2025, 05:29:39 AMI would like to ask @Sir Lüc (https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2) to create a sub-board somewhere on Witt that would be appropriate and provide myself with moderation rights on that board. I would also like to ask that for now, only members of the Royal Commission should be able to post, but all citizens should be able to see the board.

Very gladly, your Majesty - this should be done now and I have verified the permissions should be working as expected, though let me know if they don't. I will add additional members to the membergroup as they are announced.

I have accepted His Majesty's invitation to join this group, and I am honoured to serve my country. 

I have been a harsh critic of the failures of this Government, which has presided over a sharp drop in the immigration rate, but it would be unpatriotic to only sit back and criticize.  This is a great opportunity to help step in and fix things a bit, and I applaud His Majesty for recognizing the needs of the moment.  People from across the political spectrum must realize the extent of this crisis, and rise to meet the challenge.

Let's change the direction of things, and get Talossa humming again.  ¡Sà viva noastra Regeu!

Azul,

All members have been spoken with and have agreed to serve.

The members are:

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu
Sir X. Pol Briga
Mic'haglh Autófil
Mieusegnhor Pol dal Nordselva

@Sir Lüc, if you would be so kind as to provide appropriate credentials for our sub-board, I would've most grateful.

I will be posting a thread soon and our work will begin shortly.

-Txec R

Quote from: King Txec on July 07, 2025, 06:16:51 PM@Sir Lüc, if you would be so kind as to provide appropriate credentials for our sub-board, I would've most grateful.

I believe you have already gone on and assigned the correct permissions yourself, your Majesty. I remain available to correct any misconfiguration.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 03, 2025, 11:43:32 AMI have accepted His Majesty's invitation to join this group, and I am honoured to serve my country. 

I have been a harsh critic of the failures of this Government, which has presided over a sharp drop in the immigration rate, but it would be unpatriotic to only sit back and criticize.  This is a great opportunity to help step in and fix things a bit, and I applaud His Majesty for recognizing the needs of the moment.  People from across the political spectrum must realize the extent of this crisis, and rise to meet the challenge.

Let's change the direction of things, and get Talossa humming again.  ¡Sà viva noastra Regeu!

I think this is a dangerous mindset to have in the talks within the commission, as it fails to take into account a big question. That I believe the commission should talk about as part of its remit.

With Talossa as it is now, with all the political infighting with the old guard, a stale air in our politics and failings of successive governments, by not just this one but the last few years across all political parties, not one government has been able to in real terms increase immigration in a positive way for Talossa.

So the question we must ask ourselves, is what is the draw to become a Talossan? Why would people want to join outright nation, And why would they stick around even if they submit an application or even be granted citizenship, as most of those who have in recent years have become inactive or renounced.

So I would ask, before we talk about the immigration issue, we need to have a deeper think and self reflection of what is the appeal, and how do we increase the appeal to draw people in to want to become a Talossan? As if there was an appeal, we wouldn't be struggling so much with numbers.

Quote from: Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on July 15, 2025, 04:28:45 PMI think this is a dangerous mindset to have in the talks within the commission, as it fails to take into account a big question. That I believe the commission should talk about as part of its remit.

With Talossa as it is now, with all the political infighting with the old guard, a stale air in our politics and failings of successive governments, by not just this one but the last few years across all political parties, not one government has been able to in real terms increase immigration in a positive way for Talossa.

So the question we must ask ourselves, is what is the draw to become a Talossan? Why would people want to join outright nation, And why would they stick around even if they submit an application or even be granted citizenship, as most of those who have in recent years have become inactive or renounced.

So I would ask, before we talk about the immigration issue, we need to have a deeper think and self reflection of what is the appeal, and how do we increase the appeal to draw people in to want to become a Talossan? As if there was an appeal, we wouldn't be struggling so much with numbers.

.

I completely concur. Most people have enough drama in their lives already and don't see a reason to join a group that appears to make squabbling a fine art. Why get involved if any new ideas or motivations are challenged as being "anti" Talossan? To many this might seem to be a minor or nonexistent issue but I guarantee it isn't. I've discussed my reluctance in requesting immigration status because of seemingly over complicated procedure. Procedure's that seem gratuitous and serving little purpose. Why do people immigrate only to disappear weeks or months later? That is far more central of an issue than received or rejected applications. 100 people can immigrate tomorrow but if 99 never participate or disappear then what has been gained? There needs to be a reason, a motivation, to join. To be brutally honest there are very few. That's something this commission needs to address first before looking at procedure.

The immigration rate during the Plätschisch government was 0.44 immigrants per month.  This increased to 1.14 during the 58th Cosa -- dramatically higher -- and then again increased to 1.38 during the 59th Cosa.  Since then, it has dropped by 50% again, down to 0.69 a month.

Now the causes are complex, and it's not as simple as throwing the immigration switch from one Government to another.  There might be all kinds of trends to cause this.  I have tried hard to avoid saying that the Government has caused this dramatic drop, and instead I have emphasized that it's a failure to meet the moment and address the crisis.  So there's no magic switch to fix this.  But it is simply mistaken to say that "not one government has been able to in real terms increase immigration in a positive way for Talossa."  The numbers are public.  There are things that can be done, and things we should stop doing.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 15, 2025, 05:00:41 PMThe immigration rate during the Plätschisch government was 0.44 immigrants per month.  This increased to 1.14 during the 58th Cosa -- dramatically higher -- and then again increased to 1.38 during the 59th Cosa.  Since then, it has dropped by 50% again, down to 0.69 a month.

Now the causes are complex, and it's not as simple as throwing the immigration switch from one Government to another.  There might be all kinds of trends to cause this.  I have tried hard to avoid saying that the Government has caused this dramatic drop, and instead I have emphasized that it's a failure to meet the moment and address the crisis.  So there's no magic switch to fix this.  But it is simply mistaken to say that "not one government has been able to in real terms increase immigration in a positive way for Talossa."  The numbers are public.  There are things that can be done, and things we should stop doing.

Ok so let me ask you, of those numbers, how many actually become citizens? And if so how long do they stay engaged for if the do become citizen? You are just using numbers to hide the issue, and this is why I said "real terms" as, those numbers you quoted, point to the larger issue of not having something to draw people in, which means the root of the issue goes deeper than the numbers you quoted, and hide behind.

And yes I say hide behind as you used that an  excuse to avoid answering the core of my argument on the first place. Which is shady politics, and is far from helpful in this situation that you yourself have called a crisis.

I must say I don't think it's helpful for calls for "a top-to-bottom review of immigration" to come from Talossa's conservative party; the party which objects strongly every time the Government tries any fundamental reforms.

Quote from: Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on July 15, 2025, 05:06:57 PMOk so let me ask you, of those numbers, how many actually become citizens? And if so how long do they stay engaged for if the do become citizen? You are just using numbers to hide the issue, and this is why I said "real terms" as, those numbers you quoted, point to the larger issue of not having something to draw people in, which means the root of the issue goes deeper than the numbers you quoted, and hide behind.

And yes I say hide behind as you used that an  excuse to avoid answering the core of my argument on the first place. Which is shady politics, and is far from helpful in this situation that you yourself have called a crisis.

Those are the immigration numbers, not the application numbers, lol.  I know, it's surprising how much the immigration rate has plummeted!  The application rate has stayed fairly consistent, but the immigration rate has dropped by fully half.

This is a serious problem.  I think we need to do something, and I am urging the Government to act.  If the Government refuses or tries to pretend away the problem with empty accusations, then I hope the people respond with similar contempt.  None of this is shady.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC on July 15, 2025, 05:15:01 PMI must say I don't think it's helpful for calls for "a top-to-bottom review of immigration" to come from Talossa's conservative party; the party which objects strongly every time the Government tries any fundamental reforms.

If the house is on fire, you will find that the firefighters object to spraying it with gasoline, dousing it with bourbon, or covering it in napalm.  It doesn't mean that action isn't needed.

And again you miss the entire point,

Ok so let me ask again, what is the draw for people to become a Talossan and stick around?

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 15, 2025, 05:00:41 PMI have tried hard to avoid saying that the Government has caused this dramatic drop

...and Other Tales of Fiction, volume 1

Quote from: Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on July 15, 2025, 05:20:16 PMAnd again you miss the entire point,

Ok so let me ask again, what is the draw for people to become a Talossan and stick around?

My objection was to your claim that no Government has succeeded in improving the immigration rate.  That's wrong.  There are a lot of things the Government could be trying.  (And if the Government thinks something will help, they should do it even if I disagree, and then celebrate when immigration improves -- that's electoral democracy!  Try lots of things.)

But I do think this line of questioning might get at some of the problem... Antaglha, don't you like being here?  Isn't there anything you like to do in Talossa?

People can learn the language using a series of new language lessons, or they can join electoral politics and participate from the start in either their province or nationally, or they can join the Coletx and do fun heraldry/feudal stuff, or they can join the Royal Academy and talk about any bit of erudition they like, or they can do their own new project like license plates or whatever, or join one of the many game competitions or music programs... I mean, the list goes on!  We have a lot to offer!  Talossa is great!

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 15, 2025, 05:20:06 PMIf the house is on fire, you will find that the firefighters object to spraying it with gasoline

You don't *really* think that changing the election of Senators from provincial to at-large is burning the house down. I'd prefer you quit it with the overheated (see what I did there?) rhetoric.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 15, 2025, 05:25:21 PMMy objection was to your claim that no Government has succeeded in improving the immigration rate.  That's wrong.  There are a lot of things the Government could be trying.  (And if the Government thinks something will help, they should do it even if I disagree, and then celebrate when immigration improves -- that's electoral democracy!  Try lots of things.)

But I do think this line of questioning might get at some of the problem... Antaglha, don't you like being here?  Isn't there anything you like to do in Talossa?

People can learn the language using a series of new language lessons, or they can join electoral politics and participate from the start in either their province or nationally, or they can join the Coletx and do fun heraldry/feudal stuff, or they can join the Royal Academy and talk about any bit of erudition they like, or they can do their own new project like license plates or whatever, or join one of the many game competitions or music programs... I mean, the list goes on!  We have a lot to offer!  Talossa is great!

Ok, so when was the last time the Talossan language was taught? Our politics is actually going to be a big turn off for people with the way things are between the parties right now. On both sides of the table here.

Heraldry, you get to have person crest commissioned or possibly join to help create them. But the first happens once, the latter only matters when Talossa has people immigrating.

Whilst there may be some things going on. Honestly right now, Talossa is mostly exhausted and nowhere near as active as it used to be, and provincial activity rarely happens now days, and in some provinces is essentially dead due to lack of active cotizens participating. Those who are left are getting increasingly tired of how things are.

I'm not saying Talossa is all bad, but if you think of it from an outside perspective, with what I've mentioned, it isn't the most attractive place to join in our current state.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC on July 15, 2025, 05:32:30 PMYou don't *really* think that changing the election of Senators from provincial to at-large is burning the house down. I'd prefer you quit it with the overheated (see what I did there?) rhetoric.

It's a metaphor.  Last time I used the metaphor of a crumbling wall in our house, which is probably more commensurate.  I apologize if this example was too inflammatory.

If you guys think that changing to at-large Senators will fix the problem, then do it, even if I object.  Either you'll be right or you'll be wrong.

Quote from: Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on July 15, 2025, 05:33:34 PMOk, so when was the last time the Talossan language was taught?

Are you kidding me?  I just published the fifth lesson in my language series!  For the last couple of months, I've been very publicly posting and discussing them and working with others to improve them.

https://talossan.net/

Quote from: Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on July 15, 2025, 05:33:34 PMI'm not saying Talossa is all bad, but if you think of it from an outside perspective, with what I've mentioned, it isn't the most attractive place to join in our current state.

Is it possible that you might just not be aware of some of the things going on right now?

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 15, 2025, 05:40:08 PMIt's a metaphor.  Last time I used the metaphor of a crumbling wall in our house, which is probably more commensurate.  I apologize if this example was too inflammatory.

If you guys think that changing to at-large Senators will fix the problem, then do it, even if I object.  Either you'll be right or you'll be wrong.

Are you kidding me?  I just published the fifth lesson in my language series!  For the last couple of months, I've been very publicly posting and discussing them and working with others to improve them.

https://talossan.net/
Is it possible that you might just not be aware of some of the things going on right now?

Ok so the two parts quoted from me, actually boil down to the same point, so, if there are things going on in Talossa, some things I can see in the chat room, but beyond that, finding information about what is happening for people to get engaged, that has been a problem for years too. That and again, there really isn't much.

I wasn't aware of your language course for example. But I was more referencing it coming from the university of Talossa that I think used to do them.

But it still boils back to the same point, of those things you mentioned not being visible, even to those who have been around for years, so how would a newcomer easily find out? Which comes back to the current appeal. I'm not saying we don't have potential, but we do need to be brutally honest with our selfs, that Talossa has massive issues that would drive people away. And that is something that needs to be addressed.

Optics is important to draw people in. So you may think everything is great, but, if that were true, we wouldn't have an immigration or activity issue to begin with. Which is why I have made the arguments I have today.

As a recent outsider the political infighting is a big turn off. In this day of divided politics, especially in the US, a more united political system would be an enticing draw. Seeing Talossan's working together instead of dividing into petty camps would be a huge draw for those escaping their current environment.

Calling each other names, carefully couched accusations, backhanded compliments, etc. only serve to make Talossa less appealing.

Can somebody please answer this question. Why is immigration the largest concern of some parties? How many actual people immigrate monthly? I see numbers thrown around that in reality mean nothing. How many recent immigrants actually stayed around and got involved? Quite frankly the things mentioned as attractions aren't. All of those things can be done absent of Talossa. There needs to be something beyond special, a master reason to join. I'll state again that addressing the motivation should be more important than nitpicking the numbers.

Quote from: Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on July 15, 2025, 05:48:28 PMBut it still boils back to the same point, of those things you mentioned not being visible, even to those who have been around for years, so how would a newcomer easily find out?

Sure, we should probably do a better job of promoting the things that are going on.  I think that would be great!  Please do so!

Clearly, I don't think "everything is great."  I have been loudly agitating to point out that the immigration rate has plummeted by half.  That is not great.  I have made a lot of suggestions about how the Government could do better, but one of the most fundamental things I've been urging is that we should be trying lots of things, loudly and with emphasis, since this is a crisis.

Quote from: Dr. Pôl dal Nordselvă on July 15, 2025, 05:53:39 PMWhy is immigration the largest concern of some parties?

It's not the Progressive Alliance's only concern, but it's a pretty big one.  After all, currently some folks are arguing we should be deleting the entire Senats, which has been around for more than three decades, since there's not enough people just to fill the chairs.  We're losing more people each year than immigrate, over this past year.

Quote from: Dr. Pôl dal Nordselvă on July 15, 2025, 05:53:39 PMHow many actual people immigrate monthly? I see numbers thrown around that in reality mean nothing.

The government publishes official data on immigration.  They're real numbers.  Are you claiming that actually there's no problem and recent immigrants are much more active and everything is great?

Quote from: Dr. Pôl dal Nordselvă on July 15, 2025, 05:53:39 PMQuote frankly the things mentioned as attractions aren't. All of those things can be done absent of Talossa. There needs to be something beyond special, a master reason to join. I'll state again that addressing the motivation should be more important than nitpicking the numbers.

I'm not "nitpicking."  It's a huge, impossible-to-ignore trend.  It's a 50% drop.

So there's nothing you really like about Talossa right now?  Nothing you enjoy doing?

I would like to reiterate that I think this debate isn't helpful.  I know that Dama Miestra, Pol, and Antaglha want to circle the wagons and defend the Government, but this is a thread about a bipartisan royal commission.

If you want to have this debate, I'd direct you here: https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=4188.0   Or a new thread somewhere else, if someone wants to challenge the current prevailing narrative.

Otherwise, can we just let this thread alone and agree that we're going to work together to help solve the problem?

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 15, 2025, 06:02:54 PMI would like to reiterate that I think this debate isn't helpful.  I know that Dama Miestra, Pol, and Antaglha want to circle the wagons and defend the Government, but this is a thread about a bipartisan royal commission.  If you want to have this debate, I'd direct you here: https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=4188.0

Isn't this the purpose of this debate and commission? It seems to me the only person "circling" anything is you as you circle the drain of irrelevance. The point of this commission isnt to point fingers and blame others for perceived error. Rather it is to find a path forward that encourages immigration. I'd suggest the purpose is to encourage longevity. Again I say why have peiple come here to leave or just disappear?

As much as I opposed the AI conversation that would have at least been an attraction for many people. The curiosity factor alone could have been huge. This issue requires stepping outside our tired and overused talking points and thinking outside the box.

Engaging more with other micronations; virtual sporting events; public engagement with world governments; bringing attention to worldwide concerns. Many or all of these could be draws. There are things that can be done differently that don't require political tension.

We can do better. We SHOULD do better. Let's get the message out that we ARE better.

Well I take a break for a few hours and then see this thread has exploded. Let's keep it on point - as it is about the Royal Commission. Thanks.

-Txec R

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 15, 2025, 06:02:54 PMI would like to reiterate that I think this debate isn't helpful.  I know that Dama Miestra, Pol, and Antaglha want to circle the wagons and defend the Government, but this is a thread about a bipartisan royal commission.

If you want to have this debate, I'd direct you here: https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=4188.0  Or a new thread somewhere else, if someone wants to challenge the current prevailing narrative.

Otherwise, can we just let this thread alone and agree that we're going to work together to help solve the problem?

AD with all due respect, this IS the place to have this discussion, at least with what myself and Pol have been arguing for, which is that the points we have made, be brought up for serious discussion in the royal commission, Also, I think you'll find that I have not defended the government, and have openly admitted that this is an issue that has been several successive governments, on both sides. But you must have missed those in your haste to respond quickly. As I have not in any way been defending the government, but saying that we need the scope of the commission to talk about our appeal to non talossans who might stumble across us. And how to make this look like a place they might want to join. It's all well and good in reforming the immigration system, if nothing else changes, and the numbers remain low (as to be frank, they have been low for years under our governments of others) then we would be back at square one.

I believe that this being talked about by the commission should be a part of its agenda to look at solution in tandem with other issues the commission might find to rectify.

If I'm not allowed to post here, not being a member of this committee, then please delete this. (But give me a break. I work in a miserable factory, it was 107 degrees Fahrenheit in there today, my brains are a little fried.)
Talossa is great. I've been a citizen since 2011. Somehow, you all have put up with me even when I've occasionally been a complete jackass. I am pleased to be a part of Talossa, and am proud if I've managed to make any single, meager contribution to it. (yeah, that Cjovani crap.) Talossa has held my interest since 2011. I haven't even held a job at the same place for that long. I've come to believe that this is a community of decent, creative, and genuinely cool people, and I don't think I'd ever renounce my citizenship. The only way I leave Talossa is in a casket.
That being said, the problem is immigration. I've tried to get my own family members to join, without success. The grandkids walk into my house, see my Talossan flag hanging on the wall, and my Guizua prominently displayed, it's just "That's that fake country Poppy is an Admiral in." Efforts to recruit some of the nerds that frequent Vitx's game store have also met with failure.
Then I get online and see shit like Slowjamistan. Maybe that guy has a lot of money. He bought a parcel of land in the desert. You can go there. He has merch you can buy. You can drive to wherever his land is, he has signs up, maybe you can meet him and other Slowjamistanians. Sealand is harder to actually visit, but you shell out some Louis, you can become royalty. Novelty gift, be a Duke or whatever. Get a fancy certificate.
I'm not suggesting Talossa become like that. "Become a Duke in Talossa for $39.95! Get a certificate signed by the King!" But, maybe that kind of marketing may help. People like to get stuff. Citizenship in Talossa may be free, but why can't we charge money for citizenship certificates and ID cards? And flags? The official Talossan website should have a store. Sure, you'll get a bunch of people who join just for the novelty. "I've lived in Milwaukee my whole life and didn't know I was a in an independent nation! I just joined and ordered an ID card!" Out of all the people who do that as a novelty, maybe we'll get some more people who become intrigued by what Talossa is all about, and who will actively take it seriously. If not, we've still managed to get money from them.
As far as I'm concerned, our language is our greatest asset. We should promote the shit out of that. We need more original Talossan language works, or translations, anything. I'm half tempted to try and contact Iusti Canun in prison, who knows? The dude has nothing but spare time, by now he may have translated the entire Lord of the Rings into Talossan.
I'm done now. Work was pretty bad today. I believe I may have heat exhaustion.

Quote from: Dr. Pôl dal Nordselvă on July 15, 2025, 06:13:45 PMIsn't this the purpose of this debate and commission? It seems to me the only person "circling" anything is you as you circle the drain of irrelevance. The point of this commission isnt to point fingers and blame others for perceived error. Rather it is to find a path forward that encourages immigration. I'd suggest the purpose is to encourage longevity. Again I say why have peiple come here to leave or just disappear?

As much as I opposed the AI conversation that would have at least been an attraction for many people. The curiosity factor alone could have been huge. This issue requires stepping outside our tired and overused talking points and thinking outside the box.

Engaging more with other micronations; virtual sporting events; public engagement with world governments; bringing attention to worldwide concerns. Many or all of these could be draws. There are things that can be done differently that don't require political tension.

We can do better. We SHOULD do better. Let's get the message out that we ARE better.

I am going to decline to respond to any of this, except to say that I think this thread would best be served by keeping it focused on the bipartisan royal commission which was created to recommend specific solutions to the people and the Ziu, not to cast blame.  Please, if you wish to continue debating, please start a new thread or continue at the one I linked.

Quote from: Iason Taiwos on July 15, 2025, 06:21:04 PMIf I'm not allowed to post here, not being a member of this committee, then please delete this. (But give me a break. I work in a miserable factory, it was 107 degrees Fahrenheit in there today, my brains are a little fried.)
Talossa is great. I've been a citizen since 2011. Somehow, you all have put up with me even when I've occasionally been a complete jackass. I am pleased to be a part of Talossa, and am proud if I've managed to make any single, meager contribution to it. (yeah, that Cjovani crap.) Talossa has held my interest since 2011. I haven't even held a job at the same place for that long. I've come to believe that this is a community of decent, creative, and genuinely cool people, and I don't think I'd ever renounce my citizenship. The only way I leave Talossa is in a casket.
That being said, the problem is immigration. I've tried to get my own family members to join, without success. The grandkids walk into my house, see my Talossan flag hanging on the wall, and my Guizua prominently displayed, it's just "That's that fake country Poppy is an Admiral in." Efforts to recruit some of the nerds that frequent Vitx's game store have also met with failure.
Then I get online and see shit like Slowjamistan. Maybe that guy has a lot of money. He bought a parcel of land in the desert. You can go there. He has merch you can buy. You can drive to wherever his land is, he has signs up, maybe you can meet him and other Slowjamistanians. Sealand is harder to actually visit, but you shell out some Louis, you can become royalty. Novelty gift, be a Duke or whatever. Get a fancy certificate.
I'm not suggesting Talossa become like that. "Become a Duke in Talossa for $39.95! Get a certificate signed by the King!" But, maybe that kind of marketing may help. People like to get stuff. Citizenship in Talossa may be free, but why can't we charge money for citizenship certificates and ID cards? And flags? The official Talossan website should have a store. Sure, you'll get a bunch of people who join just for the novelty. "I've lived in Milwaukee my whole life and didn't know I was a in an independent nation! I just joined and ordered an ID card!" Out of all the people who do that as a novelty, maybe we'll get some more people who become intrigued by what Talossa is all about, and who will actively take it seriously. If not, we've still managed to get money from them.
As far as I'm concerned, our language is our greatest asset. We should promote the shit out of that. We need more original Talossan language works, or translations, anything. I'm half tempted to try and contact Iusti Canun in prison, who knows? The dude has nothing but spare time, by now he may have translated the entire Lord of the Rings into Talossan.
I'm done now. Work was pretty bad today. I believe I may have heat exhaustion.

These are good ideas!  Thank you.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 15, 2025, 06:21:55 PMI am going to decline to respond to any of this, except to say that I think this thread would best be served by keeping it focused on the bipartisan royal commission which was created to recommend specific solutions to the people and the Ziu, not to cast blame.  Please, if you wish to continue debating, please start a new thread or continue at the one I linked.

I will take that as your conceding the point of discussion. My only accusation is that somebody always tries to stifle the debate rather than actually respond in a meaningful and constructive way. This commission on immigration needs to address more than numbers but motivation. I've fully stated my position and don't need to rehash.

The only reason why I joined Talossa in the first place was its language. Everyone can declare their bedroom to be an independent kingdom and hang flags and what not, but we're the only ones to have our own national language with almost 45 years of history behind it. However, I'm afraid this is only really a pull factor for language nerds (such as myself), and even then finding pertinent information on the language is difficult. I remember having to correct other language nerds on Reddit when they promoted Talossan has having 12 noun cases (which it might've had in the late 80s but where do you even get that info from?).

Personally, the problem might be one of low general appeal combined with difficulty to find info. A lot of info on Talossa is decades if not more out of date, to the point where some in the micronational community still believed (until *I* corrected them) that Talossa was split into a Kingdom and Republic. I don't know how this keeps happening.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 15, 2025, 06:02:54 PMI would like to reiterate that I think this debate isn't helpful.  I know that Dama Miestra, Pol, and Antaglha want to circle the wagons and defend the Government, but this is a thread about a bipartisan royal commission.

I wasn't actually going to intervene myself, since personalised attacks on me inevitably derail every discussion, but I am very happy to see my Cabinet ministers do so. The King is to be commended that his commission has sparked contributions from those who have previously felt shy about giving their viewpoints. It is working as intended. More formal discussions can go on within the Commission, in parallel.

I fear that the Conservative Alliance entered this debate under the delusion that they were going to criticise everyone else, and nobody was going to criticise them.

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on July 15, 2025, 06:31:58 PMA lot of info on Talossa is decades if not more out of date, to the point where some in the micronational community still believed (until *I* corrected them) that Talossa was split into a Kingdom and Republic. I don't know how this keeps happening.

That's a consequence of decades of self-imposed isolation, which the King and the Foreign Ministry is doing its best to roll back.

Quote from: Iason Taiwos on July 15, 2025, 06:21:04 PMThe official Talossan website should have a store.

Excellent point, the Government is *trying* to get Talossaware back underway. That's something for @Mic'haglh Autófil, O.Be and his deputy minister @Barclamïu da Miéletz to follow up.

A lot of this discussion is sadly irrelevant to the point that we all know cool miéida that could be happening, but it's not happening because apart from a tiny, tiny minority, no-one wants to do any hutschind work around here. We have elections where the opposition yells "why isn't the government doing cool stuff?", the government says "we can't find anyone with the time and energy', they lose the election, then the new government doesn't have anyone with the time or energy either. Plenty of time and energy for fighting elections though, lol.

*cough* anyway...

Quote from: Iason Taiwos on July 15, 2025, 06:21:04 PMWe need more original Talossan language works, or translations, anything.

Have you given AD's Teach Yourself Talossan lessons a go? Be the change you want to see in the world

Quote from: Dr. Pôl dal Nordselvă on July 15, 2025, 05:53:39 PMCan somebody please answer this question. Why is immigration the largest concern of some parties?

Despite what some may argue, it is in fact a concern of all parties. Unlike some micronations, Talossa prunes its citizen rolls of citizens who have not voted or responded to a national census in the last two years. Since activity is what keeps micronations going, and citizens are needed for activity, immigration is needed to keep things fresh and replace those who allow their citizenship to lapse (or renounce if they get harassed out, like ESB or Braneu the first time).

QuoteHow many actual people immigrate monthly? I see numbers thrown around that in reality mean nothing.

According to Infoteca (effectively a tracking spreadsheet maintained by the Government), the average month sees anywhere from 0-2 naturalizations.

QuoteHow many recent immigrants actually stayed around and got involved?

That's the big question. Most immigrants in recent years (at least since I've immigrated, which was in 2022) seem to stay quieter. You get a few who jump right in, but we've also seen multiple citizens from the "uptick" during the 58th Cosa already lapse out with like five more on course to do so if they don't vote in the next election.

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil, O.Be on July 15, 2025, 06:42:09 PMwe've also seen multiple citizens from the "uptick" during the 58th Cosa already lapse out

The thing about the "uptick" during the 58th Cosa was that most of those people joined the Government party straight out of the immigration queue, something which attracted comment at the time.

King Robert I always used to say that joining his Progressive Conservative Party proved that new citizens were ready to participate fully in mainstream Talossan society. Obviously that's authoritarian partisan nonsense, but maybe the current Government parties are just not enthusiastic enough about getting new citizens signed up to vote for us.

Quote from: Dr. Pôl dal Nordselvă on July 15, 2025, 06:29:06 PMI will take that as your conceding the point of discussion. My only accusation is that somebody always tries to stifle the debate rather than actually respond in a meaningful and constructive way.

I am not "conceding" when I suggest that a heated partisan debate about blame will undermine the bipartisan commission to suggest solutions.

I am serious about actually addressing this issue.  There is a time and place for campaigning, and I don't think the people will buy the Government's spin on this issue.  But with respect to this effort, I am going to try to engage in the spirit which I think is going to actually help matters.

Now this is actual discussion of merit and looking at solutions rather than assign blame. There is enough blame to go around and it isnt helpful or even necessary to dwell upon past mistakes. Rather those errors should be used to point toward a solution. Taking a holistic view is required and something those here are desirous of.

I love Talossa and what it stands for. It allows me the freedom to express myself and be my true self without consequence or undesired effects elsewhere. I am in reality a person of deep conviction and thought and not impulsive in action. Making change is difficult and requires strength of character that is sadly lacking in many people of this age. Critical thinking is no longer a desired skill but an overlooked and dated concept. Most would rather move with the flow, staying inside their own echo chambers. We can be, and should be, different.

Nobody here is a fool. The rhetoric can get quite heated but at the end of the day we all want the same thing. We all want to see Talossa thrive! We all want to see Talossa shine! We are Talossan's!

We are Talossan's!

I make a call to all of us to step out of our typical corners, join hands, put aside needless animosity, and be the ideal we want. To be the CHANGE we want. If I offended anybody let me be the first to apologize. @Baron Alexandreu Davinescu, @Breneir Tzaracomprada, @Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC, @King Txec.  I want to link arms with all of you and make this Talossan ideal a Talossan reality!

Quote from: Dr. Pôl dal Nordselvă on July 15, 2025, 07:33:57 PMNow this is actual discussion of merit and looking at solutions rather than assign blame. There is enough blame to go around and it isnt helpful or even necessary to dwell upon past mistakes. Rather those errors should be used to point toward a solution. Taking a holistic view is required and something those here are desirous of.

I love Talossa and what it stands for. It allows me the freedom to express myself and be my true self without consequence or undesired effects elsewhere. I am in reality a person of deep conviction and thought and not impulsive in action. Making change is difficult and requires strength of character that is sadly lacking in many people of this age. Critical thinking is no longer a desired skill but an overlooked and dated concept. Most would rather move with the flow, staying inside their own echo chambers. We can be, and should be, different.

Nobody here is a fool. The rhetoric can get quite heated but at the end of the day we all want the same thing. We all want to see Talossa thrive! We all want to see Talossa shine! We are Talossan's!

We are Talossan's!

I make a call to all of us to step out of our typical corners, join hands, put aside needless animosity, and be the ideal we want. To be the CHANGE we want. If I offended anybody let me be the first to apologize. @Baron Alexandreu Davinescu, @Breneir Tzaracomprada, @Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC, @King Txec.  I want to link arms with all of you and make this Talossan ideal a Talossan reality!

I applaud this call, Pol. I need to say I really like your new avatar! I have been urging people to show their faces here to humanize one another beyond the words we see so it is nice to see another face here. I need to give more thought to create an extended answer to your call.

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on July 15, 2025, 08:21:54 PMI applaud this call, Pol. I need to say I really like your new avatar! I have been urging people to show their faces here to humanize one another beyond the words we see so it is nice to see another face here. I need to give more thought to create an extended answer to your call.

Fair enough. I look forward to a better working relationship for an extraordinary cause. This royal commission should be nonpartisan. As trusted leaders we can set an example for future posterity.

Quote from: Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir on July 15, 2025, 05:20:16 PMAnd again you miss the entire point,

Ok so let me ask again, what is the draw for people to become a Talossan and stick around?

A personal connection is a starting point.

While it's all well and good to encourage the stumbling upon or random connections of the web, my belief is that the people you already know -- who may have not been asked to join our nation -- are good candidates.  The discussions you may have with others about media, science, games, art, sports, history, or culture may be enhanced but having them take place within these forums.  The typical social media doomscrolling could be replaced or perhaps mirrored with better nuance and depth within a discussion topic on Wittenberg.  I personally stay off a certain well known platform on Mondays and Fridays and might increase the days that I don't touch it

And new connections may be made where they were not before - thinking of some of the most popular non-political discussions such as the TMT, various sports fantasy leagues, cookbooks, the chess tournament, etc.   Many indeed might be confused by political posturing and long term differences of opinion, but could offer insightful commentary about a recent film or book they encountered. 

On the latter topic - and I can't recall if this has been done previously - would be to have a book of the season or cosa etc. declared by the Monarch as being of significance and encouraging citizens and non citizens to read (or reread) same.  Could be a classic or something hot off the press.  By asking one's acquaintances if they have read or were interested in reading said book then that would be an initial connection for a discussion area on Wittenberg.  I'm sure there's lots of other ideas like this to have a calm and interesting introduction for new citizens.

Quote from: xpb on July 25, 2025, 08:36:54 AMOn the latter topic - and I can't recall if this has been done previously - would be to have a book of the season or cosa etc. declared by the Monarch as being of significance and encouraging citizens and non citizens to read (or reread) same.  Could be a classic or something hot off the press.  By asking one's acquaintances if they have read or were interested in reading said book then that would be an initial connection for a discussion area on Wittenberg.  I'm sure there's lots of other ideas like this to have a calm and interesting introduction for new citizens.

I love this idea!

-Txec R

Quote from: King Txec on July 25, 2025, 10:17:48 AMI love this idea!

-Txec R

Your Majesty, perhaps you can suggest a book by August 1st that all who may be interested in discussing would complete before September 30, perhaps with ongoing discussions starting each fortnight or so (Aug 15, Sep 1, Sep 15) of subsequent quarters of the book?