S:reu:
During the immigration process, we have four categories of potential immigrants:
- Those who apply to immigrate, but fail to fill out the form correctly and never amend this problem. Let us call these "false-start applicants."
- Those who apply to immigrate, but never proceed past that initial form. Let us call these "shy applicants."
- Those who apply to immigrate, post and communicate, but never complete the process. Let us call these "desisting applicants."
- Those who successfully immigrate. Let us call these "successful immigrants."
To begin considering this, my initial question is: do we track this information anywhere, or is it easily accessible? I'm wondering if there's a way to find out how many people are in each category, aside from just counting them manually.
I would very much like an answer to this question, even if the minister doesn't think this is important. If the minister feels that this question does "not fall under the purview of their portfolio," or that it's not "clearly labelled as a Terpelaziun," or that it's "ambiguous, unclear, or poorly formatted," I'd love to know so that I can remedy the issue. We need to figure this thing out. Immigration is the lifeblood of Talossa, and we're bleeding out.
Estimate Tuischac'h:
The precedent when compiling data into Infoteca, as I have always understood it, is that the second, third, and fourth categories -- what the Member refers to as "shy" and "desisting" applicants, as well as "successful immigrants" -- are all counted under the heading of "applications", while of course only the successful immigrants are counted under "naturalizations".
Regarding his first category, can the Member clarify, is he referring to applicants who:
- Fill out the form "correctly" (in the sense that the form app will allow it to be submitted), but
- Submit information that is unclear or otherwise "incorrect", and
- Fail to respond to Immigration Ministry attempts at follow-up?
Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil, O.Be on September 22, 2025, 10:52:19 PMEstimate Tuischac'h:
The precedent when compiling data into Infoteca, as I have always understood it, is that the second, third, and fourth categories -- what the Member refers to as "shy" and "desisting" applicants, as well as "successful immigrants" -- are all counted under the heading of "applications", while of course only the successful immigrants are counted under "naturalizations".
Regarding his first category, can the Member clarify, is he referring to applicants who:
- Fill out the form "correctly" (in the sense that the form app will allow it to be submitted), but
- Submit information that is unclear or otherwise "incorrect", and
- Fail to respond to Immigration Ministry attempts at follow-up?
S:reu:
Yes, the minister is correct that these are new categories I'm trying to sort out, in the hopes that we might find some patterns to remedy. This was prompted by the Seneschal's recent musings about applicants who never returned the oath.
The category I am calling false-start applicants are those who return applications that are incomplete or rejected, but which the app accepts. I am wondering if we can consider those separately from those who never reply to ministry attempts to follow up (who would be those I'm calling "shy applicants").
I know that this information isn't publicly tracked anywhere. But I thought maybe we might have a way of finding these numbers without too much work. Perhaps by looking at emails to the MinImm account, compared to the application count, compared to the naturalization count?
S:reu:
Just a reminder that I posed a follow-up question here, and it would be great to have a conversation on these things that isn't spaced out a week at a time. I'm sure that the minister is just having a busy time these days, but this is a pretty important issue. It'd be great to actually try to figure out what's going on.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on September 23, 2025, 08:30:11 AMI know that this information isn't publicly tracked anywhere. But I thought maybe we might have a way of finding these numbers without too much work. Perhaps by looking at emails to the MinImm account, compared to the application count, compared to the naturalization count?
Estimate Tuischac'h,
If this musing -- which, before the Member gets defensive, I would like to clarify I am not dismissing as meritless -- is the follow-up question the Member says he asked, the Public Records Ministry does not have access to the Immigration Ministry's email. Before we go too far down the road of Lexh.H.1.2.4.2, I would like to politely suggest the Member reconsider the Minister to which this question is posed so that the Government can answer his Terpelaziun most effectively.
S:reu:
I am grateful to the minister for his answer. This question concerns information that mostly seems to lie within his portfolio, even if he doesn't have it immediately on hand. However, I will try to oblige by referring the question to the Seneschal and MinImm, the Most Honourable
@Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC . I hope that with some combination of ministers, we can start to try to figure this out.