Wittenberg

It has been my opinion since ages ago that new Talossan citizens no longer know exactly how to "be Talossan" when they immigrate. When I became Talossan way back when, you actually had to buy at least one hard-copy book on Talossan history and culture (written by KRI and full of lies, but with basic facts in there as well) and pass a test on it to make sure you knew what you were doing.

So I would like to open this question for public input. What should be in a Packet given to all new immigrants explaining in as basic terms as possible how Talossa works and how they can contribute?

I would especially like input from @Tric'hard Lenxheir, who I believe was the last person to actually become a citizen. But older citizens might want to think back in time about how they were helped to become Talossan.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 02, 2022, 03:11:40 PM
It has been my opinion since ages ago that new Talossan citizens no longer know exactly how to "be Talossan" when they immigrate. When I became Talossan way back when, you actually had to buy at least one hard-copy book on Talossan history and culture (written by KRI and full of lies, but with basic facts in there as well) and pass a test on it to make sure you knew what you were doing.

So I would like to open this question for public input. What should be in a Packet given to all new immigrants explaining in as basic terms as possible how Talossa works and how they can contribute?

I would especially like input from @Tric'hard Lenxheir, who I believe was the last person to actually become a citizen. But older citizens might want to think back in time about how they were helped to become Talossan.

The New Citizen's Guide on the wiki is probably a good place to start. http://wiki.talossa.com/TalossaWiki:New_Citizen%27s_Guide

I personally believe new immigrants should be given basic instruction on how the government works on both the national and provincial levels. At times I think I understand and then something happens that leaves me totally confused. I was encouraged to become involved as a way of understanding but that seems to have backfired a bit for me (maybe i'm just not smart enough). I also think it needs to be made clear that while having fun is important there are also times when one should be more serious. Some people seem to think this nation is just a joke (even a few of the older citizens). As an example I was placed into a province that as near as I can tell has a population of 3, after participating in my first national election we were allowed to claim a seat in the provincial government which i proudly did, and almost immediately I was placed into a position of leadership as Premier, I know nothing of what I am supposed to do in this position, I read the provincial constitution and still don't really understand. This makes me believe my fellow provincial citizens think of the position as a joke as I was told I am overthinking things. The other thing I find difficult and really feel it is probably my own stupidity is the language...I honestly don't even know how to pronounce my own name LOL This probably isn't much help but I typed a lot so it probably looks good...right???

Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on January 02, 2022, 09:15:21 PM
I honestly don't even know how to pronounce my own name LOL

tree-KHARD len-JAIR

Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on January 02, 2022, 09:15:21 PM
I was placed into a province that as near as I can tell has a population of 3, after participating in my first national election we were allowed to claim a seat in the provincial government which i proudly did, and almost immediately I was placed into a position of leadership as Premier, I know nothing of what I am supposed to do in this position, I read the provincial constitution and still don't really understand. This makes me believe my fellow provincial citizens think of the position as a joke as I was told I am overthinking things.

Okay, I've read the threads on the Vuode forum, and there seems to have been something of an miscommunication.

Your provincial co-citizens, V and Eðo, were encouraging you to take on leadership, but what it looked like is that you were worried about getting it wrong somehow. They were trying to reassure you that provincial politics are very low stakes in Talossa, so it didn't really matter what you did. But you took the opposite way, it seems - if it doesn't matter what you do, why should you do anything?

I think what V and Eðo were trying to encourage you to do is to use your initiative, to do exactly whatever you felt like doing as Premier of Vuode. The idea is that any activity - especially from newcomers - is good and to be applauded. But I see how the reassurance that "it doesn't matter what you do" could, conversely, discourage you from doing anything.

The one thing you actually did - proposing a Provincial Bird - was precisely the kind of thing that we encourage people to do. I think perhaps the message should be broadcast to newcomers: any activity is better than none. However, it's worth all of us considering that perhaps Talossa's "open world" feature doesn't provide "quests" for people who immigrate without a strong agenda of what they wanted to do. In the past, people have suggested a set "course of activities" for new citizens which would earn them some kind of decoration or junior knighthood at the end. Would that have been preferable?

Can I turn the question around, though? What did you expect from Talossa when you applied to be a citizen?

I thought it would be a combination of having fun and also being fairly serious. I thought there would be a learning curve of some sort. I guess my biggest concern is my lack of language skills (I'm referring to English not necessarily Talossan) as it was suggested that i write up the "Provincial bird" as a bill and I lack the legal language skills to do so and I have read many bills proposed in the Hopper and they all seem fairly serious and are worded in "legalese" I keep thinking of trying to write something up and it all comes out sounding stupid. As I said before maybe I am just not smart enough.  :-[

Part of the issue with Talossan law is that we actually have several citizens who are lawyers in a "real" jurisdiction, or otherwise have some legal training. What you call "legalese", but they would call "precise language" or something like that, became necessary once Talossan lawyers became skilled at finding ambiguities and mistakes in laws written by just average schmoes having fun. In turn, this feeds into our continuous political strife - when people from X party find out that they can wreck the Y party's activities because the law authorising them was written by an amateur, of course they do so.

So the bills proposed in the Hopper tend to be as legalese as we can make them just to stop high-powered lawyers out there knocking holes in them. But, as V and Eðo were I think trying to tell them, the stakes are far, far lower at Provincial law. I mean, if you want a learning curve, there it is - the only way to learn how to write law is to start doing it, at Provincial level where the shark-lawyers aren't circling.

Let's hope the day never comes when you actually have to be smart to be a Talossan!

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 02, 2022, 03:11:40 PM
It has been my opinion since ages ago that new Talossan citizens no longer know exactly how to "be Talossan" when they immigrate...

I would especially like input from @Tric'hard Lenxheir, who I believe was the last person to actually become a citizen. But older citizens might want to think back in time about how they were helped to become Talossan.

We can start by putting a link at the top of Witt to this page: http://wiki.talossa.com/TalossaWiki:New_Citizen%27s_Guide - I've made a few judicious edits.

Note I'm completely reorganizing and updating www.libraryoftalossa.com - uploading the Wiki backup files to that gmail drive is a laborious process.

Quote from: GV on January 03, 2022, 10:27:22 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 02, 2022, 03:11:40 PM
It has been my opinion since ages ago that new Talossan citizens no longer know exactly how to "be Talossan" when they immigrate...

I would especially like input from @Tric'hard Lenxheir, who I believe was the last person to actually become a citizen. But older citizens might want to think back in time about how they were helped to become Talossan.

We can start by putting a link at the top of Witt to this page: http://wiki.talossa.com/TalossaWiki:New_Citizen%27s_Guide - I've made a few judicious edits.

Note I'm completely reorganizing and updating www.libraryoftalossa.com - uploading the Wiki backup files to that gmail drive is a laborious process.

I kept going with your edits.  I fixed the bullet points so they're now real bullet points (not sure when they broke), and moved your bit about history down to the "what to do" section and condensed it into one bullet point.  I also pointed your links to the history page, at least for now, and I pointed the library link at the wiki library.  Your Drive archive of documents is great, after all, but it's also pretty much completely opaque to someone not already knowledgeable about Talossa.  Hope that's all okay.

It's a good idea to put a link at the top of Witt, but we should also be showing this to all new immigrants as a matter of course, and Miestra also has a good idea about a PDF to directly send to them -- it wouldn't be hard at all to turn this into a PDF if that's what we want, and I'm happy to do it.

This page is great. It would be greater if we were still regularly updating the "What's going on in Talossa thread"; La C'hronica is supposed to fill that gap, but there have been problems. (Side note: I intend to restart regular service once my predecessor gives me the drafts of the missing November and December issues.)

The big thing that I still think we're missing is a brief outline of the essential points of Talossan history; and, as Tric'hard requested, a concise summary of how our State works (monarchy, executive, legislature, judiciary, Chancery, civil service, provincial/federal system). I want this guide to have all the necessary, basic information so I can implement my idea of "pass a multi-choice test to get your ID card".

If other people collate the info for Wiki/online use, I can probably knock together a PDF version given a month or two.

I mean, I hate to give the old narcissist tyrant props, but check out the front page of talossa.com from 2001 (https://web.archive.org/web/20020807001436/http://www.talossa.tv/files/kingdom/). KR1 explains the basics very clearly, although not-very-subtly demonising his political opponents.

I can help with that, I think.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 04, 2022, 04:00:54 PM
I mean, I hate to give the old narcissist tyrant props, but check out the front page of talossa.com from 2001 (https://web.archive.org/web/20020807001436/http://www.talossa.tv/files/kingdom/). KR1 explains the basics very clearly, although not-very-subtly demonising his political opponents.

How about this for a start:

The Kingdom of Talossa is an independent, sovereign nation in North America which seceded peacefully from the United States in 1979.

Talossa has sometimes been classified as an imaginary country or "micronation," but according to a statement approved in a 1993 referendum, "The Kingdom of Talossa is a community of persons having fun by doing things which are reasonably similar to what other ('real') countries do, whether for reasons of tourist nostalgia, out of a lust for power, in pursuit of parody, or -- yes -- as nationbuilding."

Talossa is not a computer game or a role-playing world. It is an ongoing political adventure, and foreigners are invited to become Talossan citizens and participate. If you are in Talossa, you are a major figure in Talossan politics. There are no "winners" or "losers" except from election to election, and from bill to bill in the legislature. Talossa is real life politics, only smaller and more accessible. This home page is your invitation to come and participate!

Since Talossa erupted onto the Internet in 1995 the country's population has ballooned from about 20 to more than 150. There are many webpages world-wide which feature a link to this page, and Talossan citizens have used the Internet to provide a variety of news, political, and other services to the population. Many of the links in this page are to the work of many people, who all share a common dream of making Talossa a fun place to be in.

[Original by R. Ben Madison, adapted for 2022 by GV]

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 04, 2022, 05:39:23 PM
I can help with that, I think.

Talossa.com front page imho is missing photos of actual citizens.  You will probably remember the Kingdom having a 'Mugshots' page, started in 1996.  It may be time for such a thing to make a return?

Quote from: GV on January 05, 2022, 12:28:33 AM
You will probably remember the Kingdom having a 'Mugshots' page, started in 1996.  It may be time for such a thing to make a return?

Yipes no, don't you value your privacy?

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 05, 2022, 03:34:08 PM

Quote from: GV on January 05, 2022, 12:28:33 AM
You will probably remember the Kingdom having a 'Mugshots' page, started in 1996.  It may be time for such a thing to make a return?

Yipes no, don't you value your privacy?

Good point.

I was thinking the same thing LOL

Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on January 05, 2022, 07:09:04 PM
I was thinking the same thing LOL

1996 was a different time lol.  A bit of my Talossan mind is still stuck in summer 2000 when I first showed up.  The country really was unrecognizable compared to the better society we have now.

Okay, by the grace of Allà we have a couple of prospectives in the pipeline. As Interior Minister, and for the purposes of research on this topic, I would like to ask them both: what would you like to know from us about how Talossa works? and if/when you become a citizen, what would you like to do first?

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 01:40:48 PM
Okay, by the grace of Allà we have a couple of prospectives in the pipeline. As Interior Minister, and for the purposes of research on this topic, I would like to ask them both: what would you like to know from us about how Talossa works? and if/when you become a citizen, what would you like to do first?

Ask them.  Ask them now.  Shall I ask them?

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 01:40:48 PM
Okay, by the grace of Allà we have a couple of prospectives in the pipeline. As Interior Minister, and for the purposes of research on this topic, I would like to ask them both: what would you like to know from us about how Talossa works? and if/when you become a citizen, what would you like to do first?

How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

What I want to do first? Apply for a spot with the RTCOA, especially if they lack a vexillology department.

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 02:40:16 PM
How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 03:34:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 02:40:16 PM
How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

I was a long time opponent of the mandatory party lists, and I still am. I think that the ability to give a small number of seats new immigrants did a lot to get them involved and make them feel like they had some real responsibility. I understand the arguments against, but I think it's really hard to look at our current situation and argue that the change has prevented an oligopoly. We currently have such a thorough oligopoly that Miestra there tried to semi-retire, but has had to be the real Seneschal for like six months now. Meanwhile, it's becoming increasingly difficult to make new immigrants feel like they have any real stake in their new country... so there's broad agreement on a new proposal to once again begin giving seats to new immigrants!

One thing I do like about the new proposal, though, is that the seats will be non-partisan in nature. That should help make both factions happy with the practice.

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 03:58:55 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 03:34:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 02:40:16 PM
How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

Miestra herself is one of the longtime proponents of a republic, and there actually was a Republic of Talossa for many years. It formed when something like half of all active citizens grew outraged over the behavior of the then-king, Robert I. For a long time, there were two Talossas. Eventually, however, the two countries merged back together again. In recognition of their longtime cultural identity and contributions, a new province was created from voluntary cessions of existing provinces to make Fiova, and this process was considered to be a merger of equals. In the years since, some of these citizens and other new ones have continued the pursuit of a new Republic. There has actually been considerable effort just recently along those lines, with a proposal for a regularly elected president (The office would still be called "king," though, and would still have the same powers for now, so proponents of the change argue that this means it would basically be the same monarchy. I disagree, but it's a live argument and their perspective will be different.)

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in the future! If you immigrate, you can be a part of helping decide our future!

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 04:24:23 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 03:58:55 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 03:34:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 02:40:16 PM
How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

Miestra herself is one of the longtime proponents of a republic, and there actually was a Republic of Talossa for many years. It formed when something like half of all active citizens grew outraged over the behavior of the then-king, Robert I. For a long time, there were two Talossas. Eventually, however, the two countries merged back together again. In recognition of their longtime cultural identity and contributions, a new province was created from voluntary cessions of existing provinces to make Fiova, and this process was considered to be a merger of equals. In the years since, some of these citizens and other new ones have continued the pursuit of a new Republic. There has actually been considerable effort just recently along those lines, with a proposal for a regularly elected president (The office would still be called "king," though, and would still have the same powers for now, so proponents of the change argue that this means it would basically be the same monarchy. I disagree, but it's a live argument and their perspective will be different.)

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in the future! If you immigrate, you can be a part of helping decide our future!

I did know of the Republic's existence — I've actually been trying to figure out for a week now how I think "Reunision" is properly pronounced, haha

Not that I'm a citizen yet, of course — and bearing in mind I would stand to benefit from such a change — but I think the idea of some Cosa seats for new citizens is a good one.

As far as the executive goes, I'll admit I've long thought of a directory as a good form of republic, but that's just my opinion.

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 05:41:22 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 04:24:23 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 03:58:55 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 03:34:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 02:40:16 PM
How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

Miestra herself is one of the longtime proponents of a republic, and there actually was a Republic of Talossa for many years. It formed when something like half of all active citizens grew outraged over the behavior of the then-king, Robert I. For a long time, there were two Talossas. Eventually, however, the two countries merged back together again. In recognition of their longtime cultural identity and contributions, a new province was created from voluntary cessions of existing provinces to make Fiova, and this process was considered to be a merger of equals. In the years since, some of these citizens and other new ones have continued the pursuit of a new Republic. There has actually been considerable effort just recently along those lines, with a proposal for a regularly elected president (The office would still be called "king," though, and would still have the same powers for now, so proponents of the change argue that this means it would basically be the same monarchy. I disagree, but it's a live argument and their perspective will be different.)

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in the future! If you immigrate, you can be a part of helping decide our future!

I did know of the Republic's existence — I've actually been trying to figure out for a week now how I think "Reunision" is properly pronounced, haha

Not that I'm a citizen yet, of course — and bearing in mind I would stand to benefit from such a change — but I think the idea of some Cosa seats for new citizens is a good one.

As far as the executive goes, I'll admit I've long thought of a directory as a good form of republic, but that's just my opinion.

Like so many things, Reunision started off as a typo. But it's one of the quirks of our country that people will often joyfully seize on small mistakes like that and turn them into traditions!

What do you mean when you speak about a directorate? Do you mean like the thing they had in revolutionary France? I don't know enough about political science to be sure I'm getting the reference.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 05:50:07 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 05:41:22 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 04:24:23 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 03:58:55 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 03:34:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 02:40:16 PM
How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

Miestra herself is one of the longtime proponents of a republic, and there actually was a Republic of Talossa for many years. It formed when something like half of all active citizens grew outraged over the behavior of the then-king, Robert I. For a long time, there were two Talossas. Eventually, however, the two countries merged back together again. In recognition of their longtime cultural identity and contributions, a new province was created from voluntary cessions of existing provinces to make Fiova, and this process was considered to be a merger of equals. In the years since, some of these citizens and other new ones have continued the pursuit of a new Republic. There has actually been considerable effort just recently along those lines, with a proposal for a regularly elected president (The office would still be called "king," though, and would still have the same powers for now, so proponents of the change argue that this means it would basically be the same monarchy. I disagree, but it's a live argument and their perspective will be different.)

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in the future! If you immigrate, you can be a part of helping decide our future!

I did know of the Republic's existence — I've actually been trying to figure out for a week now how I think "Reunision" is properly pronounced, haha

Not that I'm a citizen yet, of course — and bearing in mind I would stand to benefit from such a change — but I think the idea of some Cosa seats for new citizens is a good one.

As far as the executive goes, I'll admit I've long thought of a directory as a good form of republic, but that's just my opinion.

Like so many things, Reunision started off as a typo. But it's one of the quirks of our country that people will often joyfully seize on small mistakes like that and turn them into traditions!

What do you mean when you speak about a directorate? Do you mean like the thing they had in revolutionary France? I don't know enough about political science to be sure I'm getting the reference.

That is actually where they get the name! A good current example is Switzerland. Their seven-member Federal Council serves as a collective Head of State and a Cabinet.

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 05:53:12 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 05:50:07 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 05:41:22 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 04:24:23 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 03:58:55 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 03:34:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 02:40:16 PM
How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

Miestra herself is one of the longtime proponents of a republic, and there actually was a Republic of Talossa for many years. It formed when something like half of all active citizens grew outraged over the behavior of the then-king, Robert I. For a long time, there were two Talossas. Eventually, however, the two countries merged back together again. In recognition of their longtime cultural identity and contributions, a new province was created from voluntary cessions of existing provinces to make Fiova, and this process was considered to be a merger of equals. In the years since, some of these citizens and other new ones have continued the pursuit of a new Republic. There has actually been considerable effort just recently along those lines, with a proposal for a regularly elected president (The office would still be called "king," though, and would still have the same powers for now, so proponents of the change argue that this means it would basically be the same monarchy. I disagree, but it's a live argument and their perspective will be different.)

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in the future! If you immigrate, you can be a part of helping decide our future!

I did know of the Republic's existence — I've actually been trying to figure out for a week now how I think "Reunision" is properly pronounced, haha

Not that I'm a citizen yet, of course — and bearing in mind I would stand to benefit from such a change — but I think the idea of some Cosa seats for new citizens is a good one.

As far as the executive goes, I'll admit I've long thought of a directory as a good form of republic, but that's just my opinion.

Like so many things, Reunision started off as a typo. But it's one of the quirks of our country that people will often joyfully seize on small mistakes like that and turn them into traditions!

What do you mean when you speak about a directorate? Do you mean like the thing they had in revolutionary France? I don't know enough about political science to be sure I'm getting the reference.

That is actually where they get the name! A good current example is Switzerland. Their seven-member Federal Council serves as a collective Head of State and a Cabinet.

The Republic of Talossa had more of a French model, maybe. They had a parliamentary government with a president. I think that's what they have in France, anyway.

Some of our provinces effectively operate the way you're suggesting, though, with every interested citizen effectively comprising both an executive and legislative body. I don't think that there are any with a fixed number of members, though.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 06:05:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 05:53:12 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 05:50:07 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 05:41:22 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 04:24:23 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 03:58:55 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 03:34:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 02:40:16 PM
How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

Miestra herself is one of the longtime proponents of a republic, and there actually was a Republic of Talossa for many years. It formed when something like half of all active citizens grew outraged over the behavior of the then-king, Robert I. For a long time, there were two Talossas. Eventually, however, the two countries merged back together again. In recognition of their longtime cultural identity and contributions, a new province was created from voluntary cessions of existing provinces to make Fiova, and this process was considered to be a merger of equals. In the years since, some of these citizens and other new ones have continued the pursuit of a new Republic. There has actually been considerable effort just recently along those lines, with a proposal for a regularly elected president (The office would still be called "king," though, and would still have the same powers for now, so proponents of the change argue that this means it would basically be the same monarchy. I disagree, but it's a live argument and their perspective will be different.)

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in the future! If you immigrate, you can be a part of helping decide our future!

I did know of the Republic's existence — I've actually been trying to figure out for a week now how I think "Reunision" is properly pronounced, haha

Not that I'm a citizen yet, of course — and bearing in mind I would stand to benefit from such a change — but I think the idea of some Cosa seats for new citizens is a good one.

As far as the executive goes, I'll admit I've long thought of a directory as a good form of republic, but that's just my opinion.

Like so many things, Reunision started off as a typo. But it's one of the quirks of our country that people will often joyfully seize on small mistakes like that and turn them into traditions!

What do you mean when you speak about a directorate? Do you mean like the thing they had in revolutionary France? I don't know enough about political science to be sure I'm getting the reference.

That is actually where they get the name! A good current example is Switzerland. Their seven-member Federal Council serves as a collective Head of State and a Cabinet.

The Republic of Talossa had more of a French model, maybe. They had a parliamentary government with a president. I think that's what they have in France, anyway.

Some of our provinces effectively operate the way you're suggesting, though, with every interested citizen effectively comprising both an executive and legislative body. I don't think that there are any with a fixed number of members, though.

Can we change the settings so that the number of quoted messages is limited by default, like it was on ProBoards? This is getting out of hand.

Quote from: Ian Plätschisch on January 06, 2022, 07:33:18 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 06:05:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 05:53:12 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 05:50:07 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 05:41:22 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 04:24:23 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 03:58:55 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 03:34:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 02:40:16 PM
How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

Miestra herself is one of the longtime proponents of a republic, and there actually was a Republic of Talossa for many years. It formed when something like half of all active citizens grew outraged over the behavior of the then-king, Robert I. For a long time, there were two Talossas. Eventually, however, the two countries merged back together again. In recognition of their longtime cultural identity and contributions, a new province was created from voluntary cessions of existing provinces to make Fiova, and this process was considered to be a merger of equals. In the years since, some of these citizens and other new ones have continued the pursuit of a new Republic. There has actually been considerable effort just recently along those lines, with a proposal for a regularly elected president (The office would still be called "king," though, and would still have the same powers for now, so proponents of the change argue that this means it would basically be the same monarchy. I disagree, but it's a live argument and their perspective will be different.)

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in the future! If you immigrate, you can be a part of helping decide our future!

I did know of the Republic's existence — I've actually been trying to figure out for a week now how I think "Reunision" is properly pronounced, haha

Not that I'm a citizen yet, of course — and bearing in mind I would stand to benefit from such a change — but I think the idea of some Cosa seats for new citizens is a good one.

As far as the executive goes, I'll admit I've long thought of a directory as a good form of republic, but that's just my opinion.

Like so many things, Reunision started off as a typo. But it's one of the quirks of our country that people will often joyfully seize on small mistakes like that and turn them into traditions!

What do you mean when you speak about a directorate? Do you mean like the thing they had in revolutionary France? I don't know enough about political science to be sure I'm getting the reference.

That is actually where they get the name! A good current example is Switzerland. Their seven-member Federal Council serves as a collective Head of State and a Cabinet.

The Republic of Talossa had more of a French model, maybe. They had a parliamentary government with a president. I think that's what they have in France, anyway.

Some of our provinces effectively operate the way you're suggesting, though, with every interested citizen effectively comprising both an executive and legislative body. I don't think that there are any with a fixed number of members, though.

Can we change the settings so that the number of quoted messages is limited by default, like it was on ProBoards? This is getting out of hand.

What's getting out of hand?  Oh, the number of nested quotes?

Maybe there is a limit and we just haven't hit it yet.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 07:45:10 PM

Quote from: Ian Plätschisch on January 06, 2022, 07:33:18 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 06:05:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 05:53:12 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 05:50:07 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 05:41:22 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 04:24:23 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 03:58:55 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 03:34:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 02:40:16 PM
How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

Miestra herself is one of the longtime proponents of a republic, and there actually was a Republic of Talossa for many years. It formed when something like half of all active citizens grew outraged over the behavior of the then-king, Robert I. For a long time, there were two Talossas. Eventually, however, the two countries merged back together again. In recognition of their longtime cultural identity and contributions, a new province was created from voluntary cessions of existing provinces to make Fiova, and this process was considered to be a merger of equals. In the years since, some of these citizens and other new ones have continued the pursuit of a new Republic. There has actually been considerable effort just recently along those lines, with a proposal for a regularly elected president (The office would still be called "king," though, and would still have the same powers for now, so proponents of the change argue that this means it would basically be the same monarchy. I disagree, but it's a live argument and their perspective will be different.)

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in the future! If you immigrate, you can be a part of helping decide our future!

I did know of the Republic's existence — I've actually been trying to figure out for a week now how I think "Reunision" is properly pronounced, haha

Not that I'm a citizen yet, of course — and bearing in mind I would stand to benefit from such a change — but I think the idea of some Cosa seats for new citizens is a good one.

As far as the executive goes, I'll admit I've long thought of a directory as a good form of republic, but that's just my opinion.

Like so many things, Reunision started off as a typo. But it's one of the quirks of our country that people will often joyfully seize on small mistakes like that and turn them into traditions!

What do you mean when you speak about a directorate? Do you mean like the thing they had in revolutionary France? I don't know enough about political science to be sure I'm getting the reference.

That is actually where they get the name! A good current example is Switzerland. Their seven-member Federal Council serves as a collective Head of State and a Cabinet.

The Republic of Talossa had more of a French model, maybe. They had a parliamentary government with a president. I think that's what they have in France, anyway.

Some of our provinces effectively operate the way you're suggesting, though, with every interested citizen effectively comprising both an executive and legislative body. I don't think that there are any with a fixed number of members, though.

Can we change the settings so that the number of quoted messages is limited by default, like it was on ProBoards? This is getting out of hand.

What's getting out of hand?  Oh, the number of nested quotes?

Maybe there is a limit and we just haven't hit it yet.

Perhaps.

Actually, this is a nice stress-test for the software.  Lüc, your work on this continues to amaze.

Quote from: Ian Plätschisch on January 06, 2022, 08:29:28 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 07:45:10 PM

Quote from: Ian Plätschisch on January 06, 2022, 07:33:18 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 06:05:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 05:53:12 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 05:50:07 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 05:41:22 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 06, 2022, 04:24:23 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 03:58:55 PM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 03:34:50 PM

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil on January 06, 2022, 02:40:16 PM
How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

Miestra herself is one of the longtime proponents of a republic, and there actually was a Republic of Talossa for many years. It formed when something like half of all active citizens grew outraged over the behavior of the then-king, Robert I. For a long time, there were two Talossas. Eventually, however, the two countries merged back together again. In recognition of their longtime cultural identity and contributions, a new province was created from voluntary cessions of existing provinces to make Fiova, and this process was considered to be a merger of equals. In the years since, some of these citizens and other new ones have continued the pursuit of a new Republic. There has actually been considerable effort just recently along those lines, with a proposal for a regularly elected president (The office would still be called "king," though, and would still have the same powers for now, so proponents of the change argue that this means it would basically be the same monarchy. I disagree, but it's a live argument and their perspective will be different.)

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in the future! If you immigrate, you can be a part of helping decide our future!

I did know of the Republic's existence — I've actually been trying to figure out for a week now how I think "Reunision" is properly pronounced, haha

Not that I'm a citizen yet, of course — and bearing in mind I would stand to benefit from such a change — but I think the idea of some Cosa seats for new citizens is a good one.

As far as the executive goes, I'll admit I've long thought of a directory as a good form of republic, but that's just my opinion.

Like so many things, Reunision started off as a typo. But it's one of the quirks of our country that people will often joyfully seize on small mistakes like that and turn them into traditions!

What do you mean when you speak about a directorate? Do you mean like the thing they had in revolutionary France? I don't know enough about political science to be sure I'm getting the reference.

That is actually where they get the name! A good current example is Switzerland. Their seven-member Federal Council serves as a collective Head of State and a Cabinet.

The Republic of Talossa had more of a French model, maybe. They had a parliamentary government with a president. I think that's what they have in France, anyway.

Some of our provinces effectively operate the way you're suggesting, though, with every interested citizen effectively comprising both an executive and legislative body. I don't think that there are any with a fixed number of members, though.

Can we change the settings so that the number of quoted messages is limited by default, like it was on ProBoards? This is getting out of hand.

What's getting out of hand?  Oh, the number of nested quotes?

Maybe there is a limit and we just haven't hit it yet.

Perhaps.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/975/531/75f.png)

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 06, 2022, 11:42:19 PM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/975/531/75f.png)

Is...is the background text taken from what I think it's taken from?

It was...Dumbledore!

Quote"I MAY BE A HOGWARTS STUDENT...." Hargirid paused angrily. "BUT I AM ALSO A SATANIST! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Immortal_(fan_fiction))

So tell me where you stand on the controversial issue: was Tara Gilesbie trolling, or just really really stupid?

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 07, 2022, 02:35:45 PM

Quote"I MAY BE A HOGWARTS STUDENT...." Hargirid paused angrily. "BUT I AM ALSO A SATANIST! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Immortal_(fan_fiction))

So tell me where you stand on the controversial issue: was Tara Gilesbie trolling, or just really really stupid?

Yes.

So are you using what GV wrote, or should I do something, or what?

Not impressed with what GV wrote which is almost identical to what KR1 wrote 20 years ago. I think we should try to do better than that.

Look, basically I tried to write the Packet all by myself (from Francal's) notes, earlier this year, and it utterly burned me out. If this is going to be done I need volunteers to help. Anyone interested is free to make suggestions. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dxX5YLGqoU8uBmPpD1upUDj0mEL_IqPJ5IW6Thw2Yws/edit)

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 16, 2022, 02:00:22 PM
Not impressed with what GV wrote which is almost identical to what KR1 wrote 20 years ago. I think we should try to do better than that.

Look, basically I tried to write the Packet all by myself (from Francal's) notes, earlier this year, and it utterly burned me out. If this is going to be done I need volunteers to help. Anyone interested is free to make suggestions. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dxX5YLGqoU8uBmPpD1upUDj0mEL_IqPJ5IW6Thw2Yws/edit)

I figured adapting Ben's verbiage (with appropriate credit to him) was the way to go.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 16, 2022, 02:00:22 PM
Not impressed with what GV wrote which is almost identical to what KR1 wrote 20 years ago. I think we should try to do better than that.

Look, basically I tried to write the Packet all by myself (from Francal's) notes, earlier this year, and it utterly burned me out. If this is going to be done I need volunteers to help. Anyone interested is free to make suggestions. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dxX5YLGqoU8uBmPpD1upUDj0mEL_IqPJ5IW6Thw2Yws/edit)

This looks like a primer mostly on Government stuff, which is different than I would have thought we'd be doing.  I'd have thought we'd be focusing more on the general stuff that people tend to do in Talossa, rather than an explainer on our infrastructure.  So maybe I'll do my own thing based on the New Citizen's Portal on the wiki, which can be handed out alongside your packet.  This will also help prevent any appearance that I'm trying to take over your project, since I anticipate that might cause some friction.

Here's the work in progress. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/166lBxho0XBuY4bxT4rHoJDbJ9605r3dn9NM4UsLMreM/edit?usp=sharing)

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 17, 2022, 11:27:07 AM
This looks like a primer mostly on Government stuff, which is different than I would have thought we'd be doing.

The first question that prospective citizen Mic'haglh asked was on how the Government worked, and the second was on political parties. Talossa's political system is not transparent; it seems to be the first thing that prospectives are interested in; therefore it needs to be explained in simple terms for new citizens.

Any other comments?

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 17, 2022, 02:16:21 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on January 17, 2022, 11:27:07 AM
This looks like a primer mostly on Government stuff, which is different than I would have thought we'd be doing.

The first question that prospective citizen Mic'haglh asked was on how the Government worked, and the second was on political parties. Talossa's political system is not transparent; it seems to be the first thing that prospectives are interested in; therefore it needs to be explained in simple terms for new citizens.

Any other comments?

Oh, it's definitely important information and a lot of immigrants are interested in it. I was just surprised to see how in-depth it was planned to be on that front. But this is probably a great opportunity for more than one approach, which is only going to help things. I think your approach is a great idea and I wish you the best of luck with it.

Okay, roughed out the overall look and put up the sections.  I'm sure I've forgotten something, but it's a good first pass.  Will work more on it tomorrow, but anyone with suggestions should feel free to help me improve my rough!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/166lBxho0XBuY4bxT4rHoJDbJ9605r3dn9NM4UsLMreM/edit?usp=sharing

Had another half-hour that I didn't anticipate, so I was able to pretty much wrap it up tonight, as it turns out.  I decided not to put in a military bit yet, since at the moment there isn't really anything that would be possible for a new immigrant.  There's a few other things I'm sure I forgot, and there's some minor editing to do, but I think I'm most of the way there.  Not sure it's exactly what the Government had in mind, but it's what I'd give a new immigrant.

What did I forget to mention, folks?

Side note: the Organic Law is missing the note at the top about when it was last amended, and it is located in the wrong place (it's at a spot for a 2017 Organic Law, but that's not a thing).

I thought it was good, but I also wouldn't know what it was missing lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I hope to look at AD's draft during the weekend

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 19, 2022, 09:07:45 PM
I hope to look at AD's draft during the weekend

I've made a few edits, already.  Nice work so far, Alexandreu!

Okay, as a general outline it looks quite good. The biggest omission in content IMHO would be there's no mention of the Civil Service. I really think we need to promote the side of Talossa which means doing work for the State without having to take political sides.

Another section I would add under politics would be a section what the "hot button issues in contemporary Talossan politics" are. There's no point saying "check out the political parties" without explaining the basic axes of debate. Check out KR1's (tendentious and self-serving) list from 2001:

Quote
Current hot issues in Talossan politics include:

    Immigration reform: How fast should Talossa be growing?
    Formation of a "cultural" discussion group from which dissenting opinions can be excluded
    Reform of the 1997 Organic Law
    Composition of the Uppermost Cort (with various factions demanding a seat on the Cort)
    Relations and so-called "friendships" with other Micronations, especially those with a policy of jealousy or hatred for Talossa
    What if anything to do about inactive citizens ("pocket votes")
    Whether to prohibit citizens from holding more than one government office at a time (known as a "multiple office prohibition," or "MOP")
    The country's mystical Berber heritage
    Whether Gloria Estefan should be national entertainer
    Whether Talossan English should be an/the official language
    Friction between "Old Growth" and "Cybercit" Talossans

Another thing that really needs included, under each section, are links to TalossaWiki articles giving more background details.

At this point, I'd really like to invite our most recent new citizen (@Tric'hard) and our most active new prospectives (@Mic'haglh and @Abid) what they think of AD's draft. Does it answer your pressing questions, or at least tell you where to find more information?

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 21, 2022, 06:21:46 PM
Okay, as a general outline it looks quite good. The biggest omission in content IMHO would be there's no mention of the Civil Service. I really think we need to promote the side of Talossa which means doing work for the State without having to take political sides.

Another section I would add under politics would be a section what the "hot button issues in contemporary Talossan politics" are. There's no point saying "check out the political parties" without explaining the basic axes of debate. Check out KR1's (tendentious and self-serving) list from 2001:

Quote
Current hot issues in Talossan politics include:

    Immigration reform: How fast should Talossa be growing?
    Formation of a "cultural" discussion group from which dissenting opinions can be excluded
    Reform of the 1997 Organic Law
    Composition of the Uppermost Cort (with various factions demanding a seat on the Cort)
    Relations and so-called "friendships" with other Micronations, especially those with a policy of jealousy or hatred for Talossa
    What if anything to do about inactive citizens ("pocket votes")
    Whether to prohibit citizens from holding more than one government office at a time (known as a "multiple office prohibition," or "MOP")
    The country's mystical Berber heritage
    Whether Gloria Estefan should be national entertainer
    Whether Talossan English should be an/the official language
    Friction between "Old Growth" and "Cybercit" Talossans

Another thing that really needs included, under each section, are links to TalossaWiki articles giving more background details.

At this point, I'd really like to invite our most recent new citizen (@Tric'hard) and our most active new prospectives (@Mic'haglh and @Abid) what they think of AD's draft. Does it answer your pressing questions, or at least tell you where to find more information?

I'm glad you like it!  I'll work on your suggested changes tonight -- they all sound great to me.

The civil service is mentioned at the top of the second page, but I've bolded it and I'll add more about it.

Okay, did all of that.  It's now four pages, which actually makes it nicer to print if we want to send it to new immigrants in physical form.  And there's space for another section if we come up with one.

I glanced at it, it looks pretty informative. I will give it a better look tomorrow.

I approve of the current draft in its broad outline and have asked Cabinet for a formal thumbs up.

Sorry for the delay. Cabinet has approved this document, with one suggested amendment: could the example of a Talossan language text instead be our National Anthem, Chirluschă al Glheþ (http://wiki.talossa.com/Chirluscha_%C3%A0l_Glhe%C3%BE)?

I am happy to mandate in my capacity as Interior Minister that this document be formally presented to all new citizens upon their Grant of Citizenship in PDF form, as well as being a page on the Wiki. Should it also be a page on the official website? I believe that Eðo invented some means whereby a website page can be set up to reflect a Wiki page in real time.

I have no problem making that change at all. I don't think it will require much adjusting of the formatting. I want to tweak and add a little bit more, but It won't change very much from its current form.

Would you like me to set up a wiki page? It won't look as nice.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on February 02, 2022, 04:46:50 PM
I have no problem making that change at all. I don't think it will require much adjusting of the formatting. I want to tweak and add a little bit more, but It won't change very much from its current form.

Would you like me to set up a wiki page? It won't look as nice.

Please do all of the above; with the caveat that the Government will have final say over the content if we're going to be handing it out to new citizens. Thanks for your help.

Sure, no problem.  I'd advise still sending out the PDF instead of just a link, since it will look nicer and more nation-ey.  Maybe even work up to sending out a certificate of citizenship and physical copy.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on February 02, 2022, 06:45:20 PM
Sure, no problem.  I'd advise still sending out the PDF instead of just a link, since it will look nicer and more nation-ey.  Maybe even work up to sending out a certificate of citizenship and physical copy.

And who is going to do that? I'm already among the hardest working citizens and I don't have time to print and mail certificates also.

Quote from: Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM on February 02, 2022, 08:48:03 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on February 02, 2022, 06:45:20 PM
Sure, no problem.  I'd advise still sending out the PDF instead of just a link, since it will look nicer and more nation-ey.  Maybe even work up to sending out a certificate of citizenship and physical copy.

And who is going to do that? I'm already among the hardest working citizens and I don't have time to print and mail certificates also.

I pretty much never suggest piling stuff on your office, as you know -- one of my first questions about new legislation that requires stuff from the Chancery is, "Did you actually talk to the Secretary of State about this?" (https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=753.msg7820#msg7820)  And I'm not starting now!  Probably this should be the job of someone in the Government if feasible.  Alternatively, if you did want the Chancery to do it, the goal might be to find someone to serve as a deputy and take care of it.

But really, I'm not sure this is a realistic short-term goal at all.  Like I said, we should work up it.  If we can bring up the number of active citizens, then we may be able to find volunteers for stuff like this... many hands make light work.

Okay, I've taken the liberty of making the few final amendments myself. Attached is the version that the Government is going to use, barring any last minute suggestions from Cabinet. Can we have the relevant Wiki page updated (http://wiki.talossa.com/TalossaWiki:New_Citizen%27s_Guide), and the attached PDF linked to it?

A wrinkle has come up at the last minute in that talossa.com is down - we're working on finding out what's going on.

I think those two things you added are a good choice, and this looks great.  I was happy to put it together for the country and I hope that people will find it useful.  I don't know if you were requesting that I do that remaining work on it or not?  It's not clear if you're asking for me to do it or someone in the Government.

It's done. I finished it. This is the final version. I was suggesting that you update the relevant Wiki page, which you wrote, to match the new text.

Oh, it's definitely done?  You said before there might be changes from other people in the Government.  Glad to hear it's all set.  @Caleb Frenibuerg , did you find it helpful when it was sent to you after your oath?  I'd love any feedback.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on March 16, 2022, 06:32:56 PM
Oh, it's definitely done?  You said before there might be changes from other people in the Government.  Glad to hear it's all set.  @Caleb Frenibuerg , did you find it helpful when it was sent to you after your oath?  I'd love any feedback.

To be fair, I don't recall receiving any Information Packet 😅

Really? Let's ask the Immigration Minister about that then

Quote from: Caleb Frenibuerg on March 16, 2022, 06:44:01 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on March 16, 2022, 06:32:56 PM
Oh, it's definitely done?  You said before there might be changes from other people in the Government.  Glad to hear it's all set.  @Caleb Frenibuerg , did you find it helpful when it was sent to you after your oath?  I'd love any feedback.

To be fair, I don't recall receiving any Information Packet 😅

Can the immigration minister confirm sending the information packet?

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on March 16, 2022, 07:24:33 PM

Quote from: Caleb Frenibuerg on March 16, 2022, 06:44:01 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on March 16, 2022, 06:32:56 PM
Oh, it's definitely done?  You said before there might be changes from other people in the Government.  Glad to hear it's all set.  @Caleb Frenibuerg , did you find it helpful when it was sent to you after your oath?  I'd love any feedback.

To be fair, I don't recall receiving any Information Packet 😅

Can the immigration minister confirm sending the information packet?

I can confirm that I forgot to :P

I know I should expect nothing less, based on your past behavior, but I must nevertheless thank you for your honesty.

It's also not a big deal - he's like the first new citizen since I made the thing, I think!  @Caleb Frenibuerg , did you get a chance to look at the file linked above?  If so, I'd love it if you could tell me if it's helpful or if it fails to answer any big questions you might have.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on March 16, 2022, 09:40:10 PM
It's also not a big deal - he's like the first new citizen since I made the thing, I think!  @Caleb Frenibuerg , did you get a chance to look at the file linked above?  If so, I'd love it if you could tell me if it's helpful or if it fails to answer any big questions you might have.

I couldn't see anything wrong with it, quite informative :)