Wittenberg

The Nonpartisan SOS Entrenchment Act

Whereas, the Secretary of State (SOS) position is one of the most prestigious in Talossa bestowed with great power and responsibility, and

Whereas, the SOS position is by norm, tradition and, based on the first whereas clause, necessity considered nonpartisan, and

Whereas, the current SOS acts as party leader for the Free Democrats, and

Whereas, this situation is in direct conflict with the norm that the SOS is nonpartisan and could create a potentially dangerous precedent for future SOSs who may not be as honorable and morally upright as the incumbent, and

Whereas, this measure to address this precedent is not an effort to impugn the character, stain the honor and good work of the current SOS, or officially accuse the SOS of a crime and therefore not a bill of attainder, and

Whereas, to demonstrate this, the proposed measure addressing this precedent will only take effect upon the end of the current SOS term.

Therefore, be it resolved, that upon the resignation, dismissal, or death of the incumbent Secretary of State, Dr. Txec dal Nordselva, the following amendment shall be made to section 5 of Title C, so as to read:

Quote5. The Secretary of State shall hold no seat in the Ziu. The Secretary of State shall hold no position of leadership in a political party or other partisan organization.

Uréu q'estadra så:
Breneir Tzaracomprada (Sen-FL, TNC)

I would suggest taking the triggering clause out of the actual law being added, and instead make it a separate clause that will not be put into the wall. I can help with the language when I get to a computer this afternoon if need be.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on August 07, 2022, 11:05:36 AM
I would suggest taking the triggering clause out of the actual law being added, and instead make it a separate clause that will not be put into the wall. I can help with the language when I get to a computer this afternoon if need be.

Absolutely, thanks for your help Baron

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on August 07, 2022, 08:35:00 AM
The Nonpartisan SOS Entrenchment Act

Whereas, the Secretary of State (SOS) position is one of the most prestigious in Talossa bestowed with great power and responsibility, and

Whereas, the SOS position is by norm, tradition and, based on the first whereas clause, necessity considered nonpartisan, and

Whereas, the current SOS acts as party leader for the Free Democrats, and

Whereas, this situation is in direct conflict with the norm that the SOS is nonpartisan and could create a potentially dangerous precedent for future SOSs who may not be as honorable and morally upright as the incumbent, and

Whereas, this measure to address this precedent is not an effort to impugn the character, stain the honor and good work of the current SOS, or officially accuse the SOS of a crime and therefore not a bill of attainder, and

Whereas, to demonstrate this, the proposed measure addressing this precedent will only take effect upon the end of the current SOS term.

Therefore, be it resolved, that upon the resignation, dismissal, or death of the incumbent Secretary of State, Dr. Txec dal Nordselva, the following amendment shall be made to section 5 of Title C, so as to read:

Quote5. The Secretary of State shall hold no seat in the Ziu. The Secretary of State shall hold no position of leadership in a political party or other partisan organization.

I think this should do it.  I believe I have accounted for all possibilities by which @Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM might depart his office.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on August 07, 2022, 12:26:34 PM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on August 07, 2022, 08:35:00 AM
The Nonpartisan SOS Entrenchment Act

Whereas, the Secretary of State (SOS) position is one of the most prestigious in Talossa bestowed with great power and responsibility, and

Whereas, the SOS position is by norm, tradition and, based on the first whereas clause, necessity considered nonpartisan, and

Whereas, the current SOS acts as party leader for the Free Democrats, and

Whereas, this situation is in direct conflict with the norm that the SOS is nonpartisan and could create a potentially dangerous precedent for future SOSs who may not be as honorable and morally upright as the incumbent, and

Whereas, this measure to address this precedent is not an effort to impugn the character, stain the honor and good work of the current SOS, or officially accuse the SOS of a crime and therefore not a bill of attainder, and

Whereas, to demonstrate this, the proposed measure addressing this precedent will only take effect upon the end of the current SOS term.

Therefore, be it resolved, that upon the resignation, dismissal, or death of the incumbent Secretary of State, Dr. Txec dal Nordselva, the following amendment shall be made to section 5 of Title C, so as to read:

Quote5. The Secretary of State shall hold no seat in the Ziu. The Secretary of State shall hold no position of leadership in a political party or other partisan organization.

I think this should do it.  I believe I have accounted for all possibilities by which @Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM might depart his office.

Updated with gratitude for your help, Baron.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on August 07, 2022, 12:26:34 PM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on August 07, 2022, 08:35:00 AM
The Nonpartisan SOS Entrenchment Act

Whereas, the Secretary of State (SOS) position is one of the most prestigious in Talossa bestowed with great power and responsibility, and

Whereas, the SOS position is by norm, tradition and, based on the first whereas clause, necessity considered nonpartisan, and

Whereas, the current SOS acts as party leader for the Free Democrats, and

Whereas, this situation is in direct conflict with the norm that the SOS is nonpartisan and could create a potentially dangerous precedent for future SOSs who may not be as honorable and morally upright as the incumbent, and

Whereas, this measure to address this precedent is not an effort to impugn the character, stain the honor and good work of the current SOS, or officially accuse the SOS of a crime and therefore not a bill of attainder, and

Whereas, to demonstrate this, the proposed measure addressing this precedent will only take effect upon the end of the current SOS term.

Therefore, be it resolved, that upon the resignation, dismissal, or death of the incumbent Secretary of State, Dr. Txec dal Nordselva, the following amendment shall be made to section 5 of Title C, so as to read:

Quote5. The Secretary of State shall hold no seat in the Ziu. The Secretary of State shall hold no position of leadership in a political party or other partisan organization.

I think this should do it.  I believe I have accounted for all possibilities by which @Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM might depart his office.

The rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated! But seriously, this might be the first time that a bill was written that specially hinges upon a specific person leaving office. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Quote from: Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM on August 07, 2022, 01:14:30 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on August 07, 2022, 12:26:34 PM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on August 07, 2022, 08:35:00 AM
The Nonpartisan SOS Entrenchment Act

Whereas, the Secretary of State (SOS) position is one of the most prestigious in Talossa bestowed with great power and responsibility, and

Whereas, the SOS position is by norm, tradition and, based on the first whereas clause, necessity considered nonpartisan, and

Whereas, the current SOS acts as party leader for the Free Democrats, and

Whereas, this situation is in direct conflict with the norm that the SOS is nonpartisan and could create a potentially dangerous precedent for future SOSs who may not be as honorable and morally upright as the incumbent, and

Whereas, this measure to address this precedent is not an effort to impugn the character, stain the honor and good work of the current SOS, or officially accuse the SOS of a crime and therefore not a bill of attainder, and

Whereas, to demonstrate this, the proposed measure addressing this precedent will only take effect upon the end of the current SOS term.

Therefore, be it resolved, that upon the resignation, dismissal, or death of the incumbent Secretary of State, Dr. Txec dal Nordselva, the following amendment shall be made to section 5 of Title C, so as to read:

Quote5. The Secretary of State shall hold no seat in the Ziu. The Secretary of State shall hold no position of leadership in a political party or other partisan organization.

I think this should do it.  I believe I have accounted for all possibilities by which @Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM might depart his office.

The rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated! But seriously, this might be the first time that a bill was written that specially hinges upon a specific person leaving office. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Mr. Secretary, do you support this bill?
Edited to add, it would be great to have you as a co-sponsor.

It's not the first, although it's been a while. And we have had various other bills with trigger clauses just recently. I think it's all above board, as best I can tell.

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on August 07, 2022, 01:16:15 PM

Quote from: Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM on August 07, 2022, 01:14:30 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on August 07, 2022, 12:26:34 PM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on August 07, 2022, 08:35:00 AM
The Nonpartisan SOS Entrenchment Act

Whereas, the Secretary of State (SOS) position is one of the most prestigious in Talossa bestowed with great power and responsibility, and

Whereas, the SOS position is by norm, tradition and, based on the first whereas clause, necessity considered nonpartisan, and

Whereas, the current SOS acts as party leader for the Free Democrats, and

Whereas, this situation is in direct conflict with the norm that the SOS is nonpartisan and could create a potentially dangerous precedent for future SOSs who may not be as honorable and morally upright as the incumbent, and

Whereas, this measure to address this precedent is not an effort to impugn the character, stain the honor and good work of the current SOS, or officially accuse the SOS of a crime and therefore not a bill of attainder, and

Whereas, to demonstrate this, the proposed measure addressing this precedent will only take effect upon the end of the current SOS term.

Therefore, be it resolved, that upon the resignation, dismissal, or death of the incumbent Secretary of State, Dr. Txec dal Nordselva, the following amendment shall be made to section 5 of Title C, so as to read:

Quote5. The Secretary of State shall hold no seat in the Ziu. The Secretary of State shall hold no position of leadership in a political party or other partisan organization.

I think this should do it.  I believe I have accounted for all possibilities by which @Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM might depart his office.

The rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated! But seriously, this might be the first time that a bill was written that specially hinges upon a specific person leaving office. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Mr. Secretary, do you support this bill?
Edited to add, it would be great to have you as a co-sponsor.

Right now I'm neutral on this bill. I also feel it is unethical to co-sponsor a bill that directly impacts my office. Thank you for asking though.

Quote from: Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM on August 07, 2022, 01:23:04 PM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on August 07, 2022, 01:16:15 PM

Quote from: Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM on August 07, 2022, 01:14:30 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on August 07, 2022, 12:26:34 PM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on August 07, 2022, 08:35:00 AM
The Nonpartisan SOS Entrenchment Act

Whereas, the Secretary of State (SOS) position is one of the most prestigious in Talossa bestowed with great power and responsibility, and

Whereas, the SOS position is by norm, tradition and, based on the first whereas clause, necessity considered nonpartisan, and

Whereas, the current SOS acts as party leader for the Free Democrats, and

Whereas, this situation is in direct conflict with the norm that the SOS is nonpartisan and could create a potentially dangerous precedent for future SOSs who may not be as honorable and morally upright as the incumbent, and

Whereas, this measure to address this precedent is not an effort to impugn the character, stain the honor and good work of the current SOS, or officially accuse the SOS of a crime and therefore not a bill of attainder, and

Whereas, to demonstrate this, the proposed measure addressing this precedent will only take effect upon the end of the current SOS term.

Therefore, be it resolved, that upon the resignation, dismissal, or death of the incumbent Secretary of State, Dr. Txec dal Nordselva, the following amendment shall be made to section 5 of Title C, so as to read:

Quote5. The Secretary of State shall hold no seat in the Ziu. The Secretary of State shall hold no position of leadership in a political party or other partisan organization.

I think this should do it.  I believe I have accounted for all possibilities by which @Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM might depart his office.

The rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated! But seriously, this might be the first time that a bill was written that specially hinges upon a specific person leaving office. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Mr. Secretary, do you support this bill?
Edited to add, it would be great to have you as a co-sponsor.

Right now I'm neutral on this bill. I also feel it is unethical to co-sponsor a bill that directly impacts my office. Thank you for asking though.

True, I was set on the symbolism of co-sponsorship but that ethical consideration is pertinent.
Thank you for responding. I am hopeful that this measure can garner some support from the FreeDems and PdR.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on August 07, 2022, 01:19:03 PM
It's not the first, although it's been a while. And we have had various other bills with trigger clauses just recently. I think it's all above board, as best I can tell.

Probably not. All this attention does feel odd to me however as I like to do my work with as little fuss as possible. Anyway, I won't further derail this thread.

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on August 07, 2022, 01:25:32 PM

Quote from: Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM on August 07, 2022, 01:23:04 PM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on August 07, 2022, 01:16:15 PM

Quote from: Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM on August 07, 2022, 01:14:30 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on August 07, 2022, 12:26:34 PM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on August 07, 2022, 08:35:00 AM
The Nonpartisan SOS Entrenchment Act

Whereas, the Secretary of State (SOS) position is one of the most prestigious in Talossa bestowed with great power and responsibility, and

Whereas, the SOS position is by norm, tradition and, based on the first whereas clause, necessity considered nonpartisan, and

Whereas, the current SOS acts as party leader for the Free Democrats, and

Whereas, this situation is in direct conflict with the norm that the SOS is nonpartisan and could create a potentially dangerous precedent for future SOSs who may not be as honorable and morally upright as the incumbent, and

Whereas, this measure to address this precedent is not an effort to impugn the character, stain the honor and good work of the current SOS, or officially accuse the SOS of a crime and therefore not a bill of attainder, and

Whereas, to demonstrate this, the proposed measure addressing this precedent will only take effect upon the end of the current SOS term.

Therefore, be it resolved, that upon the resignation, dismissal, or death of the incumbent Secretary of State, Dr. Txec dal Nordselva, the following amendment shall be made to section 5 of Title C, so as to read:

Quote5. The Secretary of State shall hold no seat in the Ziu. The Secretary of State shall hold no position of leadership in a political party or other partisan organization.

I think this should do it.  I believe I have accounted for all possibilities by which @Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM might depart his office.

The rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated! But seriously, this might be the first time that a bill was written that specially hinges upon a specific person leaving office. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Mr. Secretary, do you support this bill?
Edited to add, it would be great to have you as a co-sponsor.

Right now I'm neutral on this bill. I also feel it is unethical to co-sponsor a bill that directly impacts my office. Thank you for asking though.

True, I was set on the symbolism of co-sponsorship but that ethical consideration is pertinent.
Thank you for responding. I am hopeful that this measure can garner some support from the FreeDems and PdR.

I don't see any reason that this bill wouldn't pass. It seems reasonable to me. I'm neutral because I can see the issue from both sides and I'm keenly aware of my reasons for becoming SoS and later party President (reasons I won't discuss publicly but have nothing at all to do with the Chancery).

There is no way I will personally vote for this bill, because:

1) it's too prescriptive. not only does it disqualify Txec from continuing his role as FreeDems President, it disqualifies him from any leadership role in our party. Even a minor one, like - to pick one at random - Party Branch Chair for Maricopa.

2) it's too easy to cheat. Imagine - and I know it's a stretch - a party where the "real leader" doesn't take a role, but all the titular leaders take orders from him, he calls the shots. You know, to avoid accountability. There would be nothing to stop him being SoS in this bill.

I will say plainly - if either of the sponsors of this bill were SoS, I would judge them solely on whether they acted in a biased or incompetent way in their official roles, no matter what their job titles in the TNC were.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on August 07, 2022, 05:01:51 PM
There is no way I will personally vote for this bill, because:

1) it's too prescriptive. not only does it disqualify Txec from continuing his role as FreeDems President, it disqualifies him from any leadership role in our party. Even a minor one, like - to pick one at random - Party Branch Chair for Maricopa.

The bill only takes effect once he leaves office. It will not have any effect on Txec.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on August 07, 2022, 05:01:51 PM2) it's too easy to cheat. Imagine - and I know it's a stretch - a party where the "real leader" doesn't take a role, but all the titular leaders take orders from him, he calls the shots. You know, to avoid accountability. There would be nothing to stop him being SoS in this bill.

Fire extinguishers might not stop your house from burning down, but they can sure help as a precaution. It's true that the spill wouldn't prevent all possible partisan interference, but it would help.

If you have a better solution, that would be great!

QuoteI don't see any reason that this bill wouldn't pass. It seems reasonable to me.

I want to say again to Dr. dal Nordselva that this is about the precedent not the person. On principle, I fervently believe it is worth us trying to legally reiterate the SOS position's nonpartisanship for future Secretaries of State who might not be so worthy of our trust. As the response in bold illustrates I also want to thank him for keeping an open mind on this and other proposals.

I'm not sure there is any way we can pass this while Txec is still SoS without casting a pall of suspicion over him, even if that's not the intention. I would prefer this bill not be proposed until after he leaves office.

Well, it seems like that will necessarily implicate his successor, or else imply that we were just waiting for him to leave to put this restriction through.

Maybe if we put in an explicit statement saying that we absolutely trust him, this is no reflection on his ethics or behavior, etc? I mean, it already kind of says that, but we can make it even stronger if it would make anyone comfortable, I bet.

Am I to offer a "solution" for a question which only the TNC seem to think is a problem? I thought I already did - a higher bar for confirmation of a new SoS, to something like we have for CpI justices, to ensure non-partisanship. Or alternatively the ability of a (large) Ziu minority to request accountability for partisan behaviour (or incompetence). A recall provision, or a formal impeachment process.

The principle is that we judge people for bad behaviour, not for their organisational affiliations.