Wittenberg

Xheneral/General => Wittenberg => Topic started by: GV on July 27, 2020, 07:13:14 PM

Title: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: GV on July 27, 2020, 07:13:14 PM
RUMP, neo-RUMP, or whatever, put up or shut up.

I defend your right to do Talossa as you please, but where are your brilliant ideas to bring more people to our country and make them want to stay?

Where are you all in the day-to-day workings of the Kingdom?  Imagine how easy it would be to have permanent secretary spots be filled constantly because *both* halves of the country do even a little bit of Talossa every day.

Too many people are 'phoning in' and look at Talossa as a fantasy-fiefdom game.  Too few are taking this beautiful thing seriously. 

Where are the RUMP Talossan speakers?  Where are the storytellers?  Where are the musicians adding to Talossan culture?  By the way, behind the scenes, I am doing my part to preserve Talossan documents.

When I was Progressive Conservative leader nigh-on two decades ago (has it been that long? - yikes), we too had our share of pocket votes.  But we also had the most active party in the land with many members active on Witt and doing even a little bit of Talossa every day.

I get the feeling the RUMP now continues to exist only to be a troll-bro party.  In its day, it *was* the activity in Talossa and contained the great part of its energy, leading the way in rebuilding the Kingdom.  But I suppose the RUMP-ghosts (and you know who you are) will come out of the woodwork to strike down every single referendum on this ballot, offering no solutions to the issues these referenda seek to address, but making very sure neo-Penguinea cannot have its way and keeping the Talossa of 2005-2011, the old Talossa, and the only real Talossa to many people, alive and well, cobwebs and dust and all.

GV
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 27, 2020, 07:17:53 PM
Quote from: GV on July 27, 2020, 07:13:14 PM
I get the feeling the RUMP now continues to exist only to be a troll-bro party.

"Bro" in the sense of "men who have allergic reactions to women disagreeing with them", certainly

But seriously, cüncitaxhiens, I don't have that much energy. I spent 1/2 an hour a day on Talossa, maximum (maybe an hour when a particularly vicious thread is going on or I have to write a law or something). It's not hard to at least check Witt every day.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 27, 2020, 09:05:28 PM
The RUMP no longer exists.  I used to be a member and I was the leader for some time, so you may consider me a decisive authority on the matter.

There are many members of the RUMP who are still active Talossans.  For example, here is a quick list of former members of the RUMP who are still active contributors: myself, Txec dal Nordselva, Viteu Marcianüs, Béneditsch Ardpresteir, Litz Cjantscheir, Eovart Grischun, and Munditenens Tresplet.  Some of these individuals left the party years before it closed up shop, while a few of them remained members until the end.

The RUMP last held a majority of the Cosa in the 44th Cosa, which commenced in August of 2012 (eight years ago).  The RUMP last led a government in the 50th Cosa, which commenced in March of 2016 (four years ago).  Indeed, outside of those six months some form of MRPT/FDT alliance has governed Talossa from January of 2014 to July of 2020.  The current Seneschal is actually the longest-serving Government official in Talossan history, as far as I can tell, with something like sixty months of service in the Cabinet, including serving for a year and two months as Seneschal.

If there are problems, maybe it's time to own up.


Listen... I know it's easy to demonize the same group that you've excoriated for more than a decade.  It can be really hard to move on.  It's hard to accept that the group of Talossans who were once so dominant have either joined other parties... or simply lost interest in Talossa.  But you guys really need to have a hard look at yourselves.

Once, the complaint was that the RUMP was everywhere.  The RUMP was the only party left after the Great Abdication, so maybe that wasn't surprising.  But it couldn't go on forever.  It's fundamentally important for power to change hands regularly, we were told.  Other parties took charge.  In time, the RUMP rolls declined and recruitment stopped; after a few years without fresh blood, the party folded.

Then, the complaint became that the RUMP was nowhere.  Ending the party was a "political strike."  It was impossible that former members had just moved on with their lives, because Talossa was having serious problems and the RUMP must be to blame.  Right?  It's simply impossible that the people in charge have done a bad job, or that the policies they've chosen have been bad for the country.  And once you've ruled out -- a priori -- any problem with the leadership or the fundamental policies, then there's nothing left by an insidious and invisible enemy.  The Other must be the problem.  The outgroup.  How dare conservative voters criticize you!  How dare they lose interest!  How dare they!

Listen:

Talossa relies exclusively on the extracurricular interest of current and prospective citizens.  If that interest is declining, then the sole and exclusive root of the problem is that Talossa is less interesting than it used to be.  Every ounce of energy and erg of thought you spend on this irrelevant fever-dream of sabotage is wasted.

The RUMP is in gone.  You shouldn't live in the past with it.  Eyes front, okay?
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 27, 2020, 09:19:11 PM
Quote from: Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on July 27, 2020, 09:05:28 PM
The RUMP no longer exists. 

Tell Cresti that!  ;D
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 27, 2020, 09:27:52 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 27, 2020, 09:19:11 PM
Quote from: Sir Alexandreu Davinescu on July 27, 2020, 09:05:28 PM
The RUMP no longer exists. 

Tell Cresti that!  ;D
Yes, Cresti sent one email to former RUMPers -- all 30 of them on the list -- to ask them to vote in this election.  Before that, the last message sent to the list was a year ago.

I guess your fear of a single fairly mild attempt at persuasion makes sense, though.  The conspiracy must have some elaborate and extremely quiet organization to keep everyone aligned.  If a huge number of Talossans just organically lost interest... why, that would imply something was wrong, wouldn't it?  And maybe something would need to change?

;)
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 27, 2020, 09:30:58 PM
Keep going, Alex. Everything you post reminds people of what the calibre of the LCC cabinet will be  ;D

Also, there should be a Witt function that prevents you editing your post after people have already replied to it, to make it look like you were wittier than you actually were.
Title: AD, you need to write a proper history of the RUMP.
Post by: GV on July 27, 2020, 10:08:33 PM
As much as we on the Talossan left may attack it, it was possibly the second-most successful political party after the Progressive Conservatives.  I would love to read it, and I would certainly use it as a source document for my own Talossan writings.

And when you do, I would strongly suggest taking JJ's path with his TNP history: stats on party successes, losses, bills, members through the years, etc.  You are the one person on earth well-suited for that task, and in me, you have at least one person who would really look forward to reading it.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 27, 2020, 10:09:51 PM
I'd read it! If it were half as self-deprecatingly funny as JJ, or RBM at his best, it would be a wild ride.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Tierçéu Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 07:31:08 AM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 27, 2020, 09:30:58 PM
Keep going, Alex. Everything you post reminds people of what the calibre of the LCC cabinet will be  ;D

Also, there should be a Witt function that prevents you editing your post after people have already replied to it, to make it look like you were wittier than you actually were.

Keep talking, keep attacking, keep ignoring what I'm saying. You are acting more and more like king ben every day. Thunderdome politics is what's killing talossa, the one thing that people engage in right now, yet all they ever get is being attacked by you if they disagree with you, god forbid anybody having there own views. Once they are tired of it we stop engaging, they stop engaging because somone keeps attacking them. Looking over our history, same happens when someone acts like they are the only voice that matters.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu on July 28, 2020, 07:57:44 AM
Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 07:31:08 AM
Keep talking, keep attacking, keep ignoring what I'm saying. You are acting more and more like king ben every day. Thunderdome politics is what's killing talossa, the one thing that people engage in right now, yet all they ever get is being attacked by you if they disagree with you, god forbid anybody having there own views. Once they are tired of it we stop engaging, they stop engaging because somone keeps attacking them. Looking over our history, same happens when someone acts like they are the only voice that matters.

The thing is, a hard attack seems to be the only thing that precipitates a response of any sort.  Aside from silly memes, the NPW hasn't really attacked anyone... but have also gotten ZERO engagement in discussing our platform.  Not even the dual-king proposal (which, I might add, is new to this manifesto).
(https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=387.0;attach=127)
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Tierçéu Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 11:21:29 AM
But doesn't that's show a fundamental problem within our society? We only respond to hard attacks from each other? Tearing each other down and the country down with it?
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Açafat del Val on July 28, 2020, 12:09:08 PM
Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 11:21:29 AM
But doesn't that's show a fundamental problem within our society? We only respond to hard attacks from each other? Tearing each other down and the country down with it?

...says he somehow unironically who continues to undertake hard attacks at other citizens.

We can agree that it's problem, but the agreement is meaningless without affirmative action. Lobbying metaphorical grenades at the FreeDems (or, more generally, at any political opponent) does nothing else than "tear each other down and the country down with it".

To be very clear: I'm calling you a hypocrite at the same time as hoping that your appeal for decency will come back around like a boomerang and wake you up with a smack.

I'm going to own up that I mistook you for someone else, but the larger point still stands: the FreeDems are not boogeymen, much like the RUMP weren't, and it's becoming tiresome to see people mistake political disagreement for personal attacks.

The FreeDems' efforts to "republicanize" Talossa is not a personal affront to anyone's rights or decency, and republicanism has as much as a place in our civil discourse as monarchism. May the voters decide which they want.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 03:18:11 PM
I will also point out that Txosuè has "hard-attacked" me twice, and said nothing about AD's condescending, sneering trolling, which provoked my snarky response.

This "it's all right if TRUE TALOSSANS, GOD SAVE THE KING! do it, and not that Republican garçă" attitude stinks.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Tierçéu Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 03:30:19 PM
I was going to say, I think you have the wrong guy xD

However yes, I will freely admit, I have been a little rough with my language, however, my point still stands, I do think we as a society needs to find a better way to engage.

You don't find me wearing my insult's like a trophy showing how salty about what was said that I'm going to display them for all to see everytime I post.

I agree some people need to be called out on there shit, hence my response. If somone is acting like a famous dictator, ours being King Ben, I feel it's a political point to point it out. However personal attacks are not uncommon here, so much so that so that old Witt had the thunderdome that contained a whole topic about someone calling somone slurs.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:38:04 PM
With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:39:48 PM
Quote from: Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu on July 28, 2020, 07:57:44 AM
Aside from silly memes, the NPW hasn't really attacked anyone... but have also gotten ZERO engagement in discussing our platform.  Not even the dual-king proposal (which, I might add, is new to this manifesto).

That's because, if you'll forgive me saying so, the dual-king proposal is totally irrelevant. It doesn't deal with any of the problems which Free Democrats have with the current monarchy, nor does it defend the idea of monarchy supported by the LCC.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: DNVercaria on July 28, 2020, 05:39:06 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:39:48 PM
Quote from: Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu on July 28, 2020, 07:57:44 AM
Aside from silly memes, the NPW hasn't really attacked anyone... but have also gotten ZERO engagement in discussing our platform.  Not even the dual-king proposal (which, I might add, is new to this manifesto).

That's because, if you'll forgive me saying so, the dual-king proposal is totally irrelevant. It doesn't deal with any of the problems which Free Democrats have with the current monarchy, nor does it defend the idea of monarchy supported by the LCC.

Insomuch as it is an attempt of offering a third way between republicanism and monarchism, it is a noble attempt of finding a truly uniting, pacifying solution for this still deeply split nationette. Do we really want to remain stuck in politics as some kind of a binary team sport forever? Good on the NPW for trying to break this mental blockade.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 05:45:56 PM
Which is more offensive: when I don't say what I think about NPW policies, or when I say what I think about them? Choose one! ;)
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: DNVercaria on July 28, 2020, 05:55:42 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 05:45:56 PM
Which is more offensive: when I don't say what I think about NPW policies, or when I say what I think about them? Choose one! ;)

I don't want you to shut up. All I want to say is that I disagree wholeheartedly when this word "irrelevant" is popping up in the context of the proposal of  the NPW.  8)
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu on July 28, 2020, 06:01:09 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:39:48 PM
Quote from: Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu on July 28, 2020, 07:57:44 AM
Aside from silly memes, the NPW hasn't really attacked anyone... but have also gotten ZERO engagement in discussing our platform.  Not even the dual-king proposal (which, I might add, is new to this manifesto).

That's because, if you'll forgive me saying so, the dual-king proposal is totally irrelevant. It doesn't deal with any of the problems which Free Democrats have with the current monarchy, nor does it defend the idea of monarchy supported by the LCC.

Irrelevant?  To whom?  It's a major platform plank of one of the three political parties currently active in Talossa.

This simply screams that it's more important to "score points" off the party one finds to be the biggest threat than actually engage in political discourse.  The FreeDems and the LCC simply tear at each other.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 06:02:23 PM
*groans*

Kneejerk reactions here. You asked my opinions of your proposal: I said "I don't have one because it's not relevant to me, i.e. it deals with 0% of the issues I have with the Talossan monarchy". Don't ask to be taken seriously, then complain when you are. Instead, take it as feedback: a political proposal has to deal with actually-existing social issues to be relevant.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Tierçéu Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:38:04 PM
With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.

There you go again making it personal, using my real initials. You yourself have told us that our history is worth reading and learning from.  Looks like I have learnt enough to draw a comparison.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 28, 2020, 07:13:18 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 05:45:56 PM
Which is more offensive: when I don't say what I think about NPW policies, or when I say what I think about them? Choose one! ;)
I didn't see him say you were being offensive or personally attacking you.  He just said he thought you were wrong.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Eðo Grischun on July 28, 2020, 07:17:35 PM
Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:38:04 PM
With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.

There you go again making it personal, using my real initials. You yourself have told us that our history is worth reading and learning from.  Looks like I have learnt enough to draw a comparison.

Thing is, the person making it personal here seems to be you. Miestra may be rough in her debating style, but at least the meat of her argument attacks the policies of the opposition.  You, on the other hand, are doing just exactly what you claim her to be doing (though she isn't), and that being focusing your attack on her personality, ad hominem.

Miestra has put forward her argument that she disagrees with certain policies.  Instead of retorting by defending those policies you choose to attack her personality and falsely equate her to our Nation's bogeyman from the past to down her.

I am aware that I am guilty, to a degree, here of playing "tu quoque", but still, and seriously, you might think you are somehow arguing the righteous and admirable position here, but you're just being the exact thing you are claiming to stand against.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Tierçéu Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: Eðo Grischun on July 28, 2020, 07:17:35 PM
Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:38:04 PM
With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.

There you go again making it personal, using my real initials. You yourself have told us that our history is worth reading and learning from.  Looks like I have learnt enough to draw a comparison.

Thing is, the person making it personal here seems to be you. Miestra may be rough in her debating style, but at least the meat of her argument attacks the policies of the opposition.  You, on the other hand, are doing just exactly what you claim her to be doing (though she isn't), and that being focusing your attack on her personality, ad hominem.

Miestra has put forward her argument that she disagrees with certain policies.  Instead of retorting by defending those policies you choose to attack her personality and falsely equate her to our Nation's bogeyman from the past to down her.

I am aware that I am guilty, to a degree, here of playing "tu quoque", but still, and seriously, you might think you are somehow arguing the righteous and admirable position here, but you're just being the exact thing you are claiming to stand against.

I see the hypocrisy.

I just shouldnt have to point it out in the first place. the shoe sure as hell doesn't fit me, somone else will have have to wear it.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Eðo Grischun on July 28, 2020, 09:04:22 PM
Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 08:21:40 PM
Quote from: Eðo Grischun on July 28, 2020, 07:17:35 PM
Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on July 28, 2020, 06:48:48 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 04:38:04 PM
With respect, J. R., you have absolutely no idea what Ben Madison was actually like. You're acting like a disgruntled schoolkid comparing an unpleasant teacher to Hitler. I'm not enthusiastic enough for a fight to tell you who in Talossa right now really does behave like Ben Madison, insofar as gaslighting and emotional manipulation, but I'm sure others can chime in.

There you go again making it personal, using my real initials. You yourself have told us that our history is worth reading and learning from.  Looks like I have learnt enough to draw a comparison.

Thing is, the person making it personal here seems to be you. Miestra may be rough in her debating style, but at least the meat of her argument attacks the policies of the opposition.  You, on the other hand, are doing just exactly what you claim her to be doing (though she isn't), and that being focusing your attack on her personality, ad hominem.

Miestra has put forward her argument that she disagrees with certain policies.  Instead of retorting by defending those policies you choose to attack her personality and falsely equate her to our Nation's bogeyman from the past to down her.

I am aware that I am guilty, to a degree, here of playing "tu quoque", but still, and seriously, you might think you are somehow arguing the righteous and admirable position here, but you're just being the exact thing you are claiming to stand against.

I see the hypocrisy.

I just shouldnt have to point it out in the first place. the shoe sure as hell doesn't fit me, somone else will have have to wear it.

I wasn't calling you out on hypocrisy.  I was saying you are flat out wrong.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more enemies than the rest of us put together.
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 10:53:14 PM
The above is what I keep misreading the title of this thread as. It's just as accurate.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Ián S.G. Txaglh on July 29, 2020, 11:35:08 AM
so this is what english speakers call a shitstorm, am i right? nice. i always like illustrative examples when learning new words.

and now for something compleeeetely different. guys, could the main reason for appalling attractive of talossa be not the freedems government but simply that we and world around us are changing radically? obviously, some of you have mentioned that outside life takes our attention, but more importantly, i see it on me, the everyday grinding mill of wurck, family and suchs strips me of spontaneousness and creativity. not that i do not want to, i simply cannot. time to time i whip up me myself to do something, but mostly i live in series of slightly variable stereotypes. i do not complain. i accept it as an inevitable necessity of progressing human life. i resist whenever i may, but do not let it fall on me.

next, the form of talossa needs also not to the most attractive to people with so so many possibilities to be with other people. let's face that, fascination of "playing" or "being" a nationette fades face to face the new world. what was new and funny in 90ies is an old, worn shirt in 2020. yes, there are still lots of youngsters doing micronations (yes, yes, i know), but in their own way mostly. talossan tradition seems to not so appealing in contrast to do things on their own, with their close friends.

i am also conlanger since ages and i still move around young conlangers, but their motivations and work differs from mine/people of my generation a lot and in many aspects.

talossa never really turned into multigeneration ship, we should not blame ourselves. culture changes and soon we will turn into a museum exhibit. let us enjoy what we have without stupid bickering and try to attract at least those rare freaks who want to cosplay nationette citizens ;) and it can be hardly done when the only thing they see are old cocks on a heap of manure fighting, pardon my klatchian. being honest is fine, being responsible is good, being too serious never is of any benefit for a jolly company. i am rosenbergian nice nihilist, i love fun (it is the very one good thing we give one to each other) and i refuse, yes, i refuse to stand by such pointless debate as presented in this threat. this is far beyond political discussion, far off of friendly teasing. howgh.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Eiric S. Bornatfiglheu on July 29, 2020, 11:39:58 AM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 28, 2020, 05:45:56 PM
Which is more offensive: when I don't say what I think about NPW policies, or when I say what I think about them? Choose one! ;)

Churches!  Gravy!  Very Small Rocks!
Title: Re: Miestră has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on July 29, 2020, 11:57:49 AM
Quote from: Ián S.G. Txaglh on July 29, 2020, 11:35:08 AMnext, the form of talossa needs also not to the most attractive to people with so so many possibilities to be with other people. let's face that, fascination of "playing" or "being" a nationette fades face to face the new world. what was new and funny in 90ies is an old, worn shirt in 2020. yes, there are still lots of youngsters doing micronations (yes, yes, i know), but in their own way mostly. talossan tradition seems to not so appealing in contrast to do things on their own, with their close friends.
So, the appeal of micronations hasnt diminished since the 90s. Instead, people do the exact same thing that lead to the creation of Talossa in the first place: "do[ing] things on their own, with their close friends". In fact, creating a micronation has never been easier, and there are a whole bunch of online meeting places where micronations can interact with each other (often in toxic, cringy ways -- I suppose that's what Ben meant by "bug nation"). What's stopping us from doing more publicity for ourselves? Sealand continues to be wellknown even outside the micronational community, and they have waaaaaaaaaaay less to offer than us.

Quotei am also conlanger since ages and i still move around young conlangers, but their motivations and work differs from mine/people of my generation a lot and in many aspects.
As a young (I guess) conlanger myself, I'd love to know what exactly you mean by that.
EDIT: On a different note, could I interest you in joining SIGN?

Quotetalossa never really turned into multigeneration ship, we should not blame ourselves. culture changes and soon we will turn into a museum exhibit.
But why does it have to be like this? If culture can change, why can't we? (that's a trick question, we do change -- the early 2010s are as ancient as the 1980s)
Title: Maybe, but...
Post by: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 29, 2020, 12:51:03 PM
I agree with Marcel, I think that it is unlikely that the appeal of micronations in general has declined.  Look at Ladonia.  It was founded in 1996 in Sweden, and it currently has 22,000 members or so (https://www.ladonia.org/).  They're obviously pretty different from us, but not that different in the ways we're talking about.  Their social media is active (https://twitter.com/ladonia_info) and they have a media (https://www.ladoniaherald.com/).

There are other, similar examples -- things like Nova Roma or the Esperanto community.  These groups are all growing.  It would be comforting to think that there just isn't any problem, I know -- full sail ahead, don't worry about the water around your feet, it's normal -- but I think that would just be fooling ourselves.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 29, 2020, 03:59:01 PM
Alex, when will you stop telling your little fibs. The Government and the Free Democrats agree there is a problem. It's just that you continually argue that the problem is us. Hutsch-tú for doing that, by the way. I'm keeping your quote in my signature forever as a signal of the quality of your takes.

One real issue is publicity, as has been raised. The outgoing government massively dropped the ball on use of social media. The Free Dems aim to prioritise fixing that.
Title: Re: Miestrâ has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 29, 2020, 06:17:16 PM
Another issue is that there is something screwy going on with global email networks. Many citizens with perfectly valid and up-to-date email addresses just didn't get their ballot this election, which is of course taking the top off of turnout. I think we need reforms to make it much easier for citizens to get their election ballots without having to go through email (and, perhaps, easier to get their NewWitt accounts approved?)
Title: Um
Post by: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on July 29, 2020, 07:27:36 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on July 29, 2020, 03:59:01 PM
Alex, when will you stop telling your little fibs. The Government and the Free Democrats agree there is a problem. It's just that you continually argue that the problem is us.

...you should really read the thread?  We're chatting with Ian T, who was suggesting that maybe there was no essential problem but just that times had become hard for micronations in general, and that we needed to change radically to meet the radical change in the world around us.  I didn't mention you or yours, because not everything is about you.  There has to be space for other conversations.
Title: Re: Miestră has more energy than the rest of us put together. Vote FREEDEMs!
Post by: Ián S.G. Txaglh on July 30, 2020, 04:48:39 AM
Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial on July 29, 2020, 11:57:49 AM
Quote from: Ián S.G. Txaglh on July 29, 2020, 11:35:08 AMnext, the form of talossa needs also not to the most attractive to people with so so many possibilities to be with other people. let's face that, fascination of "playing" or "being" a nationette fades face to face the new world. what was new and funny in 90ies is an old, worn shirt in 2020. yes, there are still lots of youngsters doing micronations (yes, yes, i know), but in their own way mostly. talossan tradition seems to not so appealing in contrast to do things on their own, with their close friends.
So, the appeal of micronations hasnt diminished since the 90s. Instead, people do the exact same thing that lead to the creation of Talossa in the first place: "do[ing] things on their own, with their close friends". In fact, creating a micronation has never been easier, and there are a whole bunch of online meeting places where micronations can interact with each other (often in toxic, cringy ways -- I suppose that's what Ben meant by "bug nation"). What's stopping us from doing more publicity for ourselves? Sealand continues to be wellknown even outside the micronational community, and they have waaaaaaaaaaay less to offer than us.

i am lecturing interlinguistics for some time and i came across an interesting observation, which is imho applicable to micronationalism too. the auxlanging community (made mostly of esperantists) is increasing in numbers, but proportionally to the total number of people, the dynamics is much lower. speaking a bit more scientificallish - if we imagine a very simple model of community dynamics as a linear function, the slope for auxlanging is lower than for general growth of population. which in fact means that the community draws less attention over time. also the structure of auxlanging community changes (also seems applicable model to micronationalism), less and less people are organised, more and more are "wild", unorganised fans mostly through social media, whose interest is different from the let say original intention to create an international by auxlang connected community. also younger people are consciously more sceptical to the goal of international auxiliary language. i noticed that in my courses too (i teach also conlangs). recent advances in cognitive linguistics shows that it was always the matter behind hindering the spread of the idea, but today it reaches the surface of the consciousness. that may be also answer to your second question - people are doing optically the same stuff but with different motivation. those micros still surviving at large, namely ladonia, are location based, core is off-line existing and ladonia specific. they are centred around physically reachable specific artifacts and locations. talossa is also attached to specific places, but those are not non-interchangeably talossa specific, non-talossan people do not see them as talossan, whereas those objects in kullaberg are directly linkable to ladonia. it is a strong point. mind is a strong thing and we still do not understand much how it works, what we already know pretty well, is that we fool ourselves a lot when it comes to layman's opinions on how mind and the stuff around work.

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Quotei am also conlanger since ages and i still move around young conlangers, but their motivations and work differs from mine/people of my generation a lot and in many aspects.
As a young (I guess) conlanger myself, I'd love to know what exactly you mean by that.
EDIT: On a different note, could I interest you in joining SIGN?

if you think i would of any good to SIGN, i am happy to join. i must warn you, that besides my normal day-to-day job, i am in third year of my phd in general linguistics, so my time available is rather limited :)

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Quotetalossa never really turned into multigeneration ship, we should not blame ourselves. culture changes and soon we will turn into a museum exhibit.
But why does it have to be like this? If culture can change, why can't we? (that's a trick question, we do change -- the early 2010s are as ancient as the 1980s)

we can change, of course, but i do not know how we should do that. i am not a fan of social media but majority of people are, i am not really into this overserious political modelling of freedems (and other people are) or total micronationalistic cosplay with kings and pomp. i am into interesting people :) so some kind of compromise is fine with me, that is why i honestly e.g. run for cosa.

some of you may remember, i was/am still involved in my older group (ark maramia), but we faced the same thing even decade earlier (we were/are on since 1978) - families, jobs and other extra-arkian activities diminished the fire burning when we were younger and otherwise not committed to other stuff. we still "survive" (we meet once a year physically) - i work on language, sloooowly, my friend is an artist, so he creates different artefacts, monuments and stuff. even 25 yrs ago we abolished all the crap we used to play before - money, armies, copycat governments, claiming land. we introduced consensual community, spiritual homeland principle with single-page constitution and five single-page laws (division of power, administration, civil, judical, criminal & language) and we still have fun. it is not that vivid, but i am happy. last citizen came in 2001, last outted 2002. we are three today, the peak was some 20+ people exactly in the time, when we were adolescent kids playing kings and kingdoms at the end of 80ies (no internet and goulash-bolsheviks at power).