One thing I absolutely do not want for Talossa is a hard set of 'metrics' for what constitutes an acceptable level of 'activity' from anyone from the monarch to the newest prospective. Wittenberg posts for the sake of a quota are empty data devoid of any meaning whatsoever and do no good for Talossa.
That being said, as I write this, Miestrâ Schivâ has posted to this forum 1003 times. ADavinescu is in 2nd place with an absolutely solid 614, which is a better number to go by than Miestrâ's as she is, in the best sense of the word, a bit of a 'polly-parrot'. Fortunately, she is by no means a windbag. lol
The King of Talossa, you ask? He should be posting to Witt often, right? The greatest ambassador for Talossa, right? Our foremost spokesman with hundreds of Wittenberg posts welcoming new prospectives and keeping up with citizens. How many Witt posts for our man, Ián Lupul, King of Talossa, do you ask?
21.
Since 3 December 2019, about seventeen months, exactly 21 Wittenberg posts from the Monarch with a period of about six months in which he made exactly one or two posts...
This from a incumbent monarch who continues to be healthy and who continues to be crisis-free in real life (unless there is something he's been holding back all this time - I hope not, Ián), but who elects to hand off power to an appointed Regent for no other reason than because he can??...
And Ián wonders why the Historic Compromise has gained so much traction in recent months?
EDIT: Thank you, @Miestrâ Schivâ, for pointing out Ián has made a great effort with his own use of the Talossan language. And how could I have forgotten his hard-copy grants and honours incoming? Definitely all to his favor, but as she said elsewhere in this thread, those good efforts are by his behavior in disappearing for so long greatly diminished.
Talossa is not Wittenberg, of course; I regard the monarch's attempts at using the National Language and the hard-copy grants of titles to be proportionately more valuable than Witt posts, activity-wise.
None of which excuses the fact that he quit without excuse, and returned without explanation or apology.
His Majesty has posted more often than 84% of our 184 active citizens. Many other prominent people also have relatively few posts over the past two years, by the usual standards we have come to expect. Your incoming party leader has posted 59 times, for example. I think you may have misidentified the problem.
Ultimately, this is probably because the handful of most prolific posters account for a majority of posts, since most Talossans don't spend time on Wittenberg. The Seneschal has posted 16% of all the posts on Witt by herself. In fact, the ten most active posters have posted 65% of the total just by themselves.
Astonishingly, only about half of citizens even have a Wittenberg account at all, and only about a third have ever posted anything.
As is often spouted from both sides, "Witt is not Talossa"
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on April 30, 2021, 06:32:06 AM
His Majesty has posted more often than 84% of our 184 active citizens. Many other prominent people also have relatively few posts over the past two years, by the usual standards we have come to expect. Your incoming party leader has posted 59 times, for example. I think you may have misidentified the problem.
Ultimately, this is probably because the handful of most prolific posters account for a majority of posts, since most Talossans don't spend time on Wittenberg. The Seneschal has posted 16% of all the posts on Witt by herself. In fact, the ten most active posters have posted 65% of the total just by themselves.
Astonishingly, only about half of citizens even have a Wittenberg account at all, and only about a third have ever posted anything.
Yes, but Ián is the
monarch. Shouldn't a monarch be held to a different standard? A regular citizen can be away from Witt for months at a time. Some even do so and vote in the Ziu. That's fine.
But to have our leader, rallying point, and national 'symbol' disappear for six months, even when appointing a Regent and it turning out said monarch was not impaired from doing his Talossan duty in any way save he wanted a vacation or something.
Would this be acceptable behavior from, say, Queen Miestrâ?
As much as we rightly rag on Ben, one thing Madison did better than anyone else in Talossan history is to be active and approachable (until you crossed him, but that's another story). He was not this aloof personage in an ivory tower who deigns to come down to confer honours from time to time, then returns to his perch to contemplate on paths beyond the mere comprehension of us mere mortals.
It continues to amaze me how the forever-war between 'Betrayed. Stolen. Kept.' vs. 'Dare Something Worthy' is still being fought even today.
I honestly think "very few Talossans spend any time on Witt" is a problem about a thousand times more important. But really, GV, you post a speech announcing the sad lack of "true Reunision of hearts and minds" about every six months. However, the last leader of the Republic has been Seneschal of the Kingdom for years, and has actually been in power in the Government for six out of the past seven years. The power of the monarch has been drastically reduced. And your personal account of Talossan history is the official Government history of the country. So what exactly do you envision as necessary for true Reunision? Surely if it's any version of compromise or validation, you've gotten it a thousand times over. What are you thinking here, my friend?
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on April 30, 2021, 06:32:06 AM
Your incoming party leader has posted 59 times, for example. I think you may have misidentified the problem.
Since I was dragged into this by your nonsense AD, I will more than happily address your "concern" on my posting rates.
In general, if I "speak"... It's because I have something to say. I find it incredibly depressing that John has /barely/ over a third of my posting numbers on this platform. Let me say that again... the King of an active nation, has a third... a third... the number of posts over the past few years than a Peacetime Minster of Defence.
That's not just sad, it's embarrassing. If he wanted to be the boss, he should have at the very least... been a bit more active than me on Witt over the last few years. But, there's even more to that. I might not trumpet away on Witt like some do... but my Prime Minster could always... ALWAYS... reach me, generally within about five minutes. And I have always been active with the Cabinet and greatly enjoyed working behind the scenes with some incredibly passionate Talossans.
That's what being a part of the leadership of this nation is... teamwork. The first step to teamwork is being here. You were WAAAY more involved than I have ever seen the King. The serving Regent shouldn't make his King look bad... but in a way you kinda did. As frustrating as you can be at times, you did the job we in the Government have generally expected out of John for years. That's why the HC is so important... to give the people a chance to keep the Crown fully in check. That way, when someone is tired of being King/Queen/Monarch, they simply bow at at the end of their term.... or get removed be the people for lack of involvement.
Gen. Davinescu, O.SPM
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on April 30, 2021, 03:47:09 PM
I honestly think "very few Talossans spend any time on Witt" is a problem about a thousand times more important. But really, GV, you post a speech announcing the sad lack of "true Reunision of hearts and minds" about every six months. However, the last leader of the Republic has been Seneschal of the Kingdom for years, and has actually been in power in the Government for six out of the past seven years. The power of the monarch has been drastically reduced. And your personal account of Talossan history is the official Government history of the country. So what exactly do you envision as necessary for true Reunision? Surely if it's any version of compromise or validation, you've gotten it a thousand times over. What are you thinking here, my friend?
Points well-taken and which deflect off the behaviour of the King over the past six months. I'm glad to see him back in action, as I always stress, and hope to see his brand of Talossan panache for years to come.
To answer your points above directly and not deflect them as you deflect the ruinous Wittenberg statistics of our incumbent monarch, if I've been an absolute doughnut all these years and John actually likes the former Republic citizens just fine, I'm glad to eat crow.
I just don't believe he ever really has. In part, they are godless liberals (in his mind, perhaps), but far more importantly, they represent a direct threat to how he has always wanted to do Talossa: in the direct model of Elizabeth II of England: the monarchy being a hereditary, lifetime office with the royal family being a continuity of institutional memory and wisdom. There is no dispute Elizabeth II has been an exemplar we will not see again for many decades, if not centuries. Not perfect in the modern sense, but exemplary nevertheless.
And you ask a question I should have always been asking, though it has rattled in my mind. When 'what I want' comes to pass, what does that look like?
From 2005 to 13 March 2007, it would have been a concerted effort on the part of the government of the Kingdom to 'entice', 'compel', etc. We Who Left to come home. It also would have been the quashing of the indictment of We Who Left for treason, etc. from the off.
One phone call (still in vogue at that time) or one email to Kane Gruber, Mike Loquatsch, Ián Anglatzarâ, or any other luminary (except me who was always pro-reunification) would have set things in motion.
That's all. One communication.
The Kingdom would never have had to give up its position what we did regarding inorganicity, treason, talossa.com, and Wittenberg X was wrong. The Kingdom was absolutely correct.
Where the Kingdom went wrong was not saying to itself in one way or another, "Yeah, all that is true. But those guys only did it as a last resort. What Ben did to Kane and Rischa - holy cow! The Republic-Talossans have all the slack in the world from us. Kill the indictment. Kill it with fire."
Cont'd.
From 14 March 2007 onward, the ball was squarely in the court of Ián Lupul. Again, a singular communication from him - done in secret or in public - would have stopped the Talossan Cold War and hastened our return by five years or more.
Such a public or private communication might have gone like this:
Mr. Anglatzarâ et al:
Come home. Ben is gone, and we don't blame you for leaving. The 'Betrayed, Stolen, Kept' crap is being dealt with both in public and private channels. I hope the Ziu resolution in the Hopper will be evidence of that. Alexander is enthusiastic, but we taught him too well.
We were right to call you out on Wittenberg X and talossa.com, and we stand by our righteous indignation. What we failed to realize was you all are people who were provoked by an individual who took real-life measures to throw another Talossan out of the country on false accusations of real-life crime. Measures that potentially could have had real-life ramifications and the smarmiest, most down-low stunt in Talossan history. I would have been pissed, too.
We were right to call you all out on ancillaries, but even with Tomás anger over talossa.com, none of that is the real issue. On the real issue, you all were 100% correct, as inorganic and treasonous as you all were.
The spirit of Ben's vendetta cannot continue to stand, and I hope you will see my Speech from the Throne from a few minutes ago in the spirit of reconciliation and genuine unity in which it was intended.
By staying away from the Kingdom and by us having kept you from returning by creating a society that would have regarded you as second-class citizens, we all hurt Talossa.
As to the current nature of the Talossan monarchy, make no mistake I will defend its veracity to the day I die. What I want from that battle is for it to be on the field of ideas and not in the swamp of clashing personalities. You need us, and we need you. The world needs us doing Talossa together.
You can reach me at any time, and I set no hoops for you to have to jump through. We are in this together. Let's talk.
[Name] Regeu
Once John became King of Talossa, the onus was on him to make the first move. He campaigned in private channels for the Throne. He took steps to take up that mantle of cultural and de jure prestige. And by doing so, he became the face of Talossa.
When I waxed time after time in private channels with Mha la Mha or in public on Witt XI (ProBoards), Ián could not have been such a brick as to not see my jist: he was able to move mountains if he so chose.
Ián Lupul chose not to move those mountains. Yes, his leadership on Reunision will rightly ring with gladness through the ages, and we were a bit ridiculous on what again I term as 'the elaborate hoops we set up for the Kingdom to have to jump through'.
But he did not offer that leadership until after the Republic made that first move in December 2011.
Cont'd.
When Ián Lupul came to Talossa, it was as a hurricane hitting the Kingdom, though at the time, no-one knew it.
Lupul hit the ground running and figured Ben out from the off. I've talked about that before.
What kept him from seeing the forest for the trees in 2005? When kept him from using his growing influence (he really is a force of nature) to stop the animosity toward the Republic while standing with Tomás regarding talossa.com He could have done both.
Ián is possibly the most perceptive individual in Talossa in the past twenty years, save perhaps Ián Anglatzarâ, Art Verbotten, or Dan Lauriér. There is little doubt in my mind he saw exactly what caused us to leave - or did he?
Without some retelling as 'A Nation Sundered', no-one who didn't live through that time in Talossa could make sense of 2003-2004 through reading any primary-source documents, including Wittenberg. But 'A Nation Sundered' was first published in 2005 (late-spring or summer, I think?).
This book of mine is not so incoherent Ián or anyone else could not have seen the Great Provocation for the Republic in the first place and that while we needed to be called out for our mistakes with talossa.com and Wittenberg, we also needed all the grace in the world for dealing as best we could with That Which Caused Us to take that 'nuclear option' in the first place: the Vendetta against Kane and the terrifying precedent it set for the Kingdom: if Ben did this to Kane, he could do this to anyone.
As for you, Alexander, your coming to Talossa was well-received by everyone on both sides of the 'Vuode Wall'. You continue to be intelligent, enthusiastic, and along with El Lex, your competent handling of the Regency puts you in very good stead.
What has always baffled us about you is how quickly you glommed onto the 'Betrayed. Stolen. Kept.' mantra. You came to us in 2006, and almost immediately, the RUMP had you.
'A Nation Sundered' was out by then. Surely, you read it. But even if you hadn't yet (which is fine), you would surely have heard about the vendetta against Kane and its profound implications for Talossa and its potential consequences for Kane's real life, right?
You were (and still are) smart enough to know in that time which facet of the dark rock of 2003-2004 Talossa really mattered, right? It wasn't talossa.com, I can tell you.
And again, I say this: in the Woodstock-of-Talossa for which I so desparately pine, the Republic was not without its own silliness. When you made that good-faith effort in 2008 to get an account on the Republic's Wittenberg, you were rebuffed by the Powers that Be - not legally, but certainly through back-channels. Certainly when I think on this, I have to see how much more difficult reconcilation became at that nadir of pan-talossanity.
The gates of reconcilation were open to Ián all through 2009 and 2010. If Ián had chosen to go through them, standing up for what was right, but offering real grace for that which transcended Talossan life, he could have ended the Talossan Cold War in one day. No, we would not have come back immediately, but the road to reunification would have been set.
But Ián didn't want that. He didn't want us to come back. Our energy, competence, and organization were a direct threat to his Talossa. He knew how we felt about the monarchy. He also knew a Kane-Miestrâ dynamic duo would have returned over the Vuode Wall like a tsunami of reform and governmental change. The RUMP would have been washed away, and in the end, Ián was right: it was, even without Kane being active.
And the most vociferous spokesperson for Ián Lupul's Talossan Dream continues to be Alexander Davinescu.
Alexander Davinescu, an individual with whom I have always gotten along and who I hope continues to do Talossa for another fifty years or more...
Cont'd.
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on April 30, 2021, 02:58:30 AM
Talossa is not Wittenberg, of course; I regard the monarch's attempts at using the National Language and the hard-copy grants of titles to be proportionately more valuable than Witt posts, activity-wise.
None of which excuses the fact that he quit without excuse, and returned without explanation or apology.
I don't think quitting is the right word considering he appointed a regent, he might have something deeply personal he doesn't want to share because he is not required to + he may not want to because of the nature of that reason. I took a break during the winter this year as tuchalich because I have been struggling with my mental health and new disability diagnosis (autism). I'm comfortable sharing that because the nature of it is mundane plus isn't the full story as to the circumstances of what was happening. Maybe the mortal human that is king john had something that he had to cope/deal/get on top of/get over that he could not give the time nor the mental space to deal with, in comparison, our quibbles and trifles. He can share why or he can keep it to himself, that is his prerogative and there is no legal or indeed moral reason that we must compel him to tell us why he went away. He provided an alternative in his sted and went away get on with whatever he needed to do, which is better then nothing at all.
Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on April 30, 2021, 05:23:57 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on April 30, 2021, 02:58:30 AM
Talossa is not Wittenberg, of course; I regard the monarch's attempts at using the National Language and the hard-copy grants of titles to be proportionately more valuable than Witt posts, activity-wise.
None of which excuses the fact that he quit without excuse, and returned without explanation or apology.
I don't think quitting is the right word considering he appointed a regent, he might have something deeply personal he doesn't want to share because he is not required to + he may not want to because of the nature of that reason. I took a break during the winter this year as tuchalich because I have been struggling with my mental health and new disability diagnosis (autism). I'm comfortable sharing that because the nature of it is mundane plus isn't the full story as to the circumstances of what was happening. Maybe the mortal human that is king john had something that he had to cope/deal/get on top of/get over that he could not give the time nor the mental space to deal with, in comparison, our quibbles and trifles. He can share why or he can keep it to himself, that is his prerogative and there is no legal or indeed moral reason that we must compel him to tell us why he went away. He provided an alternative in his sted and went away get on with whatever he needed to do, which is better then nothing at all.
From 3 August 2020, he stopped logging onto Witt without explanation. If he had something really pressing going on, a simple line to Mha and Alexander would have sufficed, and either would have told us straight-off.
And 55RZ21 never would have existed.
I made a welfare-check phone call to him in early October 2020. Only after that did he appoint AD as Regent. Now, back to my long-thread of replies...
Quote from: GV on April 30, 2021, 05:14:06 PM
When Ián Lupul came to Talossa, it was as a hurricane hitting the Kingdom, though at the time, no-one knew it.
Lupul hit the ground running and figured Ben out from the off. I've talked about that before....
...Alexander Davinescu, an individual with whom I have always gotten along and who I hope continues to do Talossa for another fifty years or more...
Cont'd.
Grrr... I accidentally killed off my last reply. No matter.
What could Ián have done post-Reunision to have effected positive Talossan society?
Now, it gets more gray, but the spats between Alexander Davinescu and Miestrâ Schivâ with Viteu M. over the years exhibit the true bonds of Talossan fraternité are as elusive as ever.
And Ián has continued to not help himself in this: the Proclamation Crisis over an inconsequential bill, but which did expose a glaring constitutional flaw, since remedied and now the present veto of 55RZ21, the assent or let-pass of which would have been a act not of charity, but one of promotion of democracy in Talossa.
Not to mention the appointment and peerage of Alexander Davinescu, the most-abrasive individual to the Talossan Left and one guaranteed to put Miestrâ into a twit. Ián could have appointed someone off the UCort or even a the Senator (not me), perhaps. And then, a middle finger to the Left: Baron Davinescu!
Has Talossa been to Ián Lupul nothing more than a game of Diplomacy?
55RZ21 stipulates fixed terms of office for the monarch while preserving the veto and other royal powers. It also represents this Talossan generation's final asking of the question to the people of Talossa regarding how we want our monarchy to be set up.
A referendum would have been the elegant way for conservative Talossa to roar, rise up, and kill this movement off once and for all.
Ián's veto took that chance from his own movement. And now, the momentum grows, doesn't it, Ián?
Ián Lupul, you know your days as monarch may be numbered. But probably, the Convocation will give you another seven years on the Throne, and if that is the will of the people through the Convocation, that's fine with me, and I will gladly doff my hat to you, as it will be the first time a reunited Talossa has voted as one body for its monarch. The People will have spoken.
As it is, there will be a coming referendum, but it will be one contrary to your wishes: a referendum that could have been brought into being by yourself in an act of pragmatism and good will.
Another chance for Reunision-of-the-heart quashed, Ián...
Cont'd (yes, peeps, I'm going somewhere with this.)...
Quote from: GV on April 30, 2021, 05:36:15 PM
Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on April 30, 2021, 05:23:57 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on April 30, 2021, 02:58:30 AM
Talossa is not Wittenberg, of course; I regard the monarch's attempts at using the National Language and the hard-copy grants of titles to be proportionately more valuable than Witt posts, activity-wise.
None of which excuses the fact that he quit without excuse, and returned without explanation or apology.
I don't think quitting is the right word considering he appointed a regent, he might have something deeply personal he doesn't want to share because he is not required to + he may not want to because of the nature of that reason. I took a break during the winter this year as tuchalich because I have been struggling with my mental health and new disability diagnosis (autism). I'm comfortable sharing that because the nature of it is mundane plus isn't the full story as to the circumstances of what was happening. Maybe the mortal human that is king john had something that he had to cope/deal/get on top of/get over that he could not give the time nor the mental space to deal with, in comparison, our quibbles and trifles. He can share why or he can keep it to himself, that is his prerogative and there is no legal or indeed moral reason that we must compel him to tell us why he went away. He provided an alternative in his sted and went away get on with whatever he needed to do, which is better then nothing at all.
From 3 August 2020, he stopped logging onto Witt without explanation. If he had something really pressing going on, a simple line to Mha and Alexander would have sufficed, and either would have told us straight-off.
And 55RZ21 never would have existed.
I made a welfare-check phone call to him in early October 2020. Only after that did he appoint AD as Regent. Now, back to my long-thread of replies...
And again, he might have a reason why he doesn't want to tell us. Say heaven forbid something has happened with his family that has taken him away from getting shouted at for doing his job? Would you demand he tell us something that private. We all have, despite non-un recognition, the right to a private and family life. Any inference in that can only be in the basis of law.
Quote from: GV on April 30, 2021, 05:51:44 PM
Grrr... I accidentally killed off my last reply. No matter.
...
Another chance for Reunision-of-the-heart quashed, Ián...
Cont'd (yes, peeps, I'm going somewhere with this.)...
When you first came to us in May 2005, Ián Lupul, I really cannot tell you how much of a positive splash and vibe you made in the Republic. You were a breath of fresh air who saw through Ben's antics from the moment you began reading his Wittenberg posts.
Your wargaming passion was and is still much-appreciated, and the entrance of the Lupul-Mha families gave new life to a Regipäts in real danger of going the way of the Dodo. Colorado and not Milwaukee became the center of Talossan gravity.
I don't think Ben was happy with this, but the idea any of you would dare to think to have anything to do with any of us in the Republic galled him. Even with you and Fritz leading the charge of calling Ben out, it was not until Tomás called Ben out over the language did the tide turn, though I'm pretty sure even you didn't think Ben would just up and fly the coop of his own free will.
Our last phone call notwithstanding (lol), I've always enjoyed interacting with you, and the only thing I have ever wanted from you is for you to genuinely see past talossa.com, Witt X, the threat to the monarchy (real or imagined), and see us 'republicans and neo-Penguineans' not only as compatriots in Talossanity, but as real people with feelings. Not in a 'warm-and-fuzzy' way (I hate that, too), but in an honest and sincere way.
We all will know honesty and sincerity from each other when we see it, by the way.
It's hard to see souls through pixels, and one of the great mistakes we have all made through the years (and decades!) is not nearly enough interaction through videoconferecing or voice-to-voice. This needs to change, and I'm as guilty of that as anyone in dropping the ball.
Get to know Ián Anglatzarâ. He is one of the wisest people you will ever find.
If possible, get to know Dieter N. V.. His way of looking at the world is unique and relevant.
And on and on... Yes, Alexander and I need to Zoom (AD, I will PM you on FB).
I have never had any doubt, King of Talossa, you in real-life have been and will always be an upstanding and first-rate person. As much as it is possible with bounds of all decorum, etc., if you are to remain monarch, we need to see our monarch as a real person and not as some bloke who scuttled off when he didn't get his way with the hereditary monarchy referendum.
Turn your veto of 55RZ21 into water under the bridge, be the Talossan monarch you were in 2007, the Talossan you were in 2005, and be a force for good in the Regipäts as I know you are in the world. May you remain in Talossa forever, and may you or your successor lay the Crown of Talossa at the feet of Jesus on the Temple Mount.
And I leave you with this and end this diatribe: John Lupul, you, J. P., and I know better than anyone else in Talossa we are living in prophetic times with end-times prophetic events slowly, but ever-faster, careening to a head.
More than ever, we in Talossa must be united. You are a giant, sir. Miestrâ is a giant. Anglatzarâ is a giant. Your faith and mine teach, Ián Lupul, the end draws near. The giants of Talossa must work together.
Within back-channels if not publicly, John, do your part to mend fences. May we have the wisdom to do likewise. You and I will Zoom soon, I hope.
AD, I hope this answers some of your questions. :-)
Quote from: GV on April 30, 2021, 04:26:10 PM
I just don't believe he ever really has. In part, they are godless liberals (in his mind, perhaps), but far more importantly, they represent a direct threat to how he has always wanted to do Talossa: in the direct model of Elizabeth II of England: the monarchy being a hereditary, lifetime office with the royal family being a continuity of institutional memory and wisdom. There is no dispute Elizabeth II has been an exemplar we will not see again for many decades, if not centuries. Not perfect in the modern sense, but exemplary nevertheless.
I'm not sure the king can be held responsible for what you imagine he's thinking. He's never criticized you as a "godless liberal" or implied anything even remotely similar, as far as I know. His Majesty is a politically conservative devout Orthodox Christian, but I have never seen him be anything but extremely respectful and polite of the beliefs of others -- including myself, a leader of a progressive activist group and atheist who he recently trusted to be his regent. And I have certainly never seen him speak of you or anyone as a "threat!" Indeed, as far as I can tell, His Majesty has made a habit of not criticizing anyone's character, even when he disagrees with them sharply.
Quote from: GV on April 30, 2021, 05:51:44 PM
What could Ián have done post-Reunision to have effected positive Talossan society?
No, hold on, I asked what exactly you envision "true Reunision" to be. Obviously you have a long list of grievances, starting ten years ago. I am aware of them. For that matter, you recounted most of these events in the same way just a couple of weeks ago, in your "Woolley vs. the Republic" thread. I read it with interest. But as far as I can tell, these recent things are just your personal criticisms of His Majesty. You might be unhappy that His Majesty declined to abdicate in favor of a presidency, for example, but what does that have to do with Reunision?
Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on April 30, 2021, 06:10:57 PM
And again, he might have a reason why he doesn't want to tell us. Say heaven forbid something has happened with his family that has taken him away from getting shouted at for doing his job? Would you demand he tell us something that private. We all have, despite non-un recognition, the right to a private and family life. Any inference in that can only be in the basis of law.
All true.
I cannot remember off the top of my head the exact day on which I made that welfare-check phone-call with John. One's voice is always a good indicator of overall health and in some cases, emotional state.
When I heard John's voice that day over the phone, I perceived it as being its normal reedy-resonant self. And yes, as I remember these things, he may have said something about work. Perhaps many of us were too hasty in our approach.
But... The
timing relative to the July 2020 monarchial referendum which nixed the hereditary aspect... A galaxy of miscommunication, thinking too fast, and crossed wires on the part of many Talossans regarding John's absence? Wouldn't be the first time such a thing has happened!
But... The appointment of AD as Regent
only after my welfare-check call and after two months of no Witt activity at all...
The return to activity just in time to personally veto 55RZ21, which would have made the monarchy a periodically-elected office of state...
John's past outright refusal (??) to entertain dialoguing with 'republicans' on a personal level over the past decade-and-a-half...
All of this paints a narrative the King through the years did everything in his power not only to preserve Talossa, but to preserve Talossa the way he wanted to do Talossa.
As for a difficult situation on his part outside of Talossa, had this been the case, I'm quite sure in my private back-channels with Mha, Mha would have told me in appropriately the most-oblique of terms John was not doing well in some way.
But unless I am missing something horribly, Mha to me in private channels did no such thing.
And this is the frustrating thing: John either
refused or was unable to say anything in August and September 2020 to the country. If I'm the president of, say, a PTA, and went incommunicado for two months?! I would have been tossed out of office after two weeks.
Could John be putting the kibosh on communicating something horrible in his life? Possibly.
But in the context of the past decade-and-a-half of dealing with him in both good and interesting aspects (mostly good), the narrative of Lupul's just being recalcitrant and having a temper-tantrum over the monarchy referendum unfortunately makes the most sense right now.
I don't know how controversial this take is going to be, but this "culture war" will not cease until everyone who has witnessed the Schism or Reunision stops being a citizen.
This is not a demand for these people to renounce by any means, rather I cant help but feel like post-Reunision citizens just... dont care as much? Or at least I dont. And that might be for the best long-term.
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on April 30, 2021, 06:15:13 PM
I'm not sure the king can be held responsible for what you imagine he's thinking. He's never criticized you as a "godless liberal" or implied anything even remotely similar, as far as I know. His Majesty is a politically conservative devout Orthodox Christian, but I have never seen him be anything but extremely respectful and polite of the beliefs of others -- including myself, a leader of a progressive activist group and atheist who he recently trusted to be his regent. And I have certainly never seen him speak of you or anyone as a "threat!" Indeed, as far as I can tell, His Majesty has made a habit of not criticizing anyone's character, even when he disagrees with them sharply.
Quote from: GV on April 30, 2021, 05:51:44 PM
What could Ián have done post-Reunision to have effected positive Talossan society?
No, hold on, I asked what exactly you envision "true Reunision" to be. Obviously you have a long list of grievances, starting ten years ago. I am aware of them. For that matter, you recounted most of these events in the same way just a couple of weeks ago, in your "Woolley vs. the Republic" thread. I read it with interest. But as far as I can tell, these recent things are just your personal criticisms of His Majesty. You might be unhappy that His Majesty declined to abdicate in favor of a presidency, for example, but what does that have to do with Reunision?
"I asked you what exactly you envision 'true Reunision' to be" - Thank you for reminding me of your question. Good Lord, I am still worked up over stuff!
The Reunision I wish for is for Ián Lupul, you, and others on the modern Talossan Right to engage through back-channels a sincere 'come-to-Jesus' dialogue such Kane, Miestrâ, Anglatzarâ, and others will say in so many words something to the effect of...
We had a knock-down-drag out with John today, and I think we understand each other a little better. We still disagree rampantly on the monarchy, but we are well-convinced John is aware of and has fessed up for his own mistakes. But we have fessed up on our own, too.
We may never been drinking buddies with Lupul, but I think it really is water under the bridge. As for AD vs. Schivâ, that seems to have gone the way of the Dodo, too. Part of bringing up all this is to take as much poison-dross from future Talossan politics as possible. We can disagree on governance and things like that, but we can also take the log out of our own eye while removing the stick out of the eyes of others - a phenomenae (cannot spell today) that does not happen enough in politics anywhere and one which voters outside of Talossa hate.
Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial on April 30, 2021, 06:29:35 PM
I don't know how controversial this take is going to be, but this "culture war" will not cease until everyone who has witnessed the Schism or Reunision stops being a citizen.
This is not a demand for these people to renounce by any means, rather I cant help but feel like post-Reunision citizens just... dont care as much? Or at least I dont. And that might be for the best long-term.
Thank you, John Eiffler! That's the sort of response he would have given.
Right on all counts! LOL And yes, I took your post the right way. :-)
Quote from: GV on April 30, 2021, 06:28:20 PM
Quote from: Txosuè Éiric Rôibeardescù on April 30, 2021, 06:10:57 PM
And again, he might have a reason why he doesn't want to tell us. Say heaven forbid something has happened with his family that has taken him away from getting shouted at for doing his job? Would you demand he tell us something that private. We all have, despite non-un recognition, the right to a private and family life. Any inference in that can only be in the basis of law.
All true.
I cannot remember off the top of my head the exact day on which I made that welfare-check phone-call with John. One's voice is always a good indicator of overall health and in some cases, emotional state.
When I heard John's voice that day over the phone, I perceived it as being its normal reedy-resonant self. And yes, as I remember these things, he may have said something about work. Perhaps many of us were too hasty in our approach.
But... The timing relative to the July 2020 monarchial referendum which nixed the hereditary aspect... A galaxy of miscommunication, thinking too fast, and crossed wires on the part of many Talossans regarding John's absence? Wouldn't be the first time such a thing has happened!
But... The appointment of AD as Regent only after my welfare-check call and after two months of no Witt activity at all...
The return to activity just in time to personally veto 55RZ21, which would have made the monarchy a periodically-elected office of state...
John's past outright refusal (??) to entertain dialoguing with 'republicans' on a personal level over the past decade-and-a-half...
All of this paints a narrative the King through the years did everything in his power not only to preserve Talossa, but to preserve Talossa the way he wanted to do Talossa.
As for a difficult situation on his part outside of Talossa, had this been the case, I'm quite sure in my private back-channels with Mha, Mha would have told me in appropriately the most-oblique of terms John was not doing well in some way.
But unless I am missing something horribly, Mha to me in private channels did no such thing.
And this is the frustrating thing: John either refused or was unable to say anything in August and September 2020 to the country. If I'm the president of, say, a PTA, and went incommunicado for two months?! I would have been tossed out of office after two weeks.
Could John be putting the kibosh on communicating something horrible in his life? Possibly.
But in the context of the past decade-and-a-half of dealing with him in both good and interesting aspects (mostly good), the narrative of Lupul's just being recalcitrant and having a temper-tantrum over the monarchy referendum unfortunately makes the most sense right now.
And what if he didn't tell or even told MHA not to tell anyone. Private life, human rights, find some other reason. I even get being angry/worried with him not being here but he does not need to tell us why. I'm not putting him on a pedestal, all of your privacy, what you do outside talossa is your business, not mine. Also your PTA analogy is somewhat floored by the fact a deputy head of the pta would be elected alongside or the pta chair could appoint someone in there place walst they dealt with there own problems, depending on how the PTA is structured. Appointing a regent to do that is the same thing.
Quote from: GV on April 30, 2021, 06:37:03 PM
The Reunision I wish for is for Ián Lupul, you, and others on the modern Talossan Right to engage through back-channels a sincere 'come-to-Jesus' dialogue such Kane, Miestrâ, Anglatzarâ, and others will say in so many words something to the effect of...
We had a knock-down-drag out with John today, and I think we understand each other a little better. We still disagree rampantly on the monarchy, but we are well-convinced John is aware of and has fessed up for his own mistakes. But we have fessed up on our own, too.
We may never been drinking buddies with Lupul, but I think it really is water under the bridge. As for AD vs. Schivâ, that seems to have gone the way of the Dodo, too.
Part of bringing up all this is to take as much poison-dross from future Talossan politics as possible. We can disagree on governance and things like that, but we can also take the log out of our own eye while removing the stick out of the eyes of others - a phenomenae (cannot spell today) that does not happen enough in politics anywhere and one which voters outside of Talossa hate.
Okay, so you're kind of just using a different euphemism here, but as far as I can tell, you're saying that you want everyone to get along and be buddies? A couple of the people you mentioned are completely inactive these days, so it would seem to amount to you, me, the king, and the Seneschal being friendly and casually chatting with each other? Is that accurate? That would be "true Reunision?"
Sorry to press the point, but you've been talking about this for many years now, and I just want to really understand what you're saying.
My other interpretation is that you're saying you want everyone to acknowledge where they fell short in times past, but generally and specifically. But since that has happened repeatedly, including directly from me to you after one of these speeches, and by the king himself in more than one official speech, I don't think that's it. You want not only that, but also friendly chatting, right?
It's probably just best to understand that (fill in the blank) is a nasty, poisonous person, motivated by wounded ego and hatreds, who is only involved in Talossa because it's somewhere they can be deeply cruel, manipulative and abusive like they can't be in real life. If we're going to keep Talossa going we just have to accept that that person will never "repent", will never start behaving like a decent person - fundamentally because they don't see Talossa as "real life" and don't see any reason to abide by generally accepted ethics and decency in Talossa - and if we can't accept, we just have to give up and let them have Talossa all to themselves. Which we won't do because we despise that person and won't let them "win" Talossa.
I think this formulation works for all of us, we just have different people in mind for fill in the blank. Every single one of us thinks their miéidă don't stink.
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on April 30, 2021, 07:08:55 PM
It's probably just best to understand that (fill in the blank) is a nasty, poisonous person, motivated by wounded ego and hatreds, who is only involved in Talossa because it's somewhere they can be deeply cruel, manipulative and abusive like they can't be in real life. If we're going to keep Talossa going we just have to accept that that person will never "repent", will never start behaving like a decent person - fundamentally because they don't see Talossa as "real life" and don't see any reason to abide by generally accepted ethics and decency in Talossa - and if we can't accept, we just have to give up and let them have Talossa all to themselves. Which we won't do because we despise that person and won't let them "win" Talossa.
I think this formulation works for all of us, we just have different people in mind for fill in the blank. Every single one of us thinks their miéidă don't stink.
Almost none of that describes you in my mind. I admire you very much in many ways. You are passionate, deeply loyal, and seem to be a fundamentally good person. You have many flaws, but we are all flawed. I have many flaws too.
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on April 30, 2021, 07:08:55 PM
I think this formulation works for all of us, we just have different people in mind for fill in the blank. Every single one of us thinks their miéidă don't stink.
Straight up, Miestrâ. Straight up.
AD, to answer your previous question: I want
all of those things such when the 'other side' is out of earshot, there is at least a minimum of 'Hee, hee'-trolling culture or 'They wronged us. Ecce, passione nos!'.
I would take those kind remarks more sincerely if they weren't coming from the person who has pretty consistently accused me of ruining Talossa with my mad schemes and visions and how it would be better for everyone if I just went away.
I don't agree with Marcel that the pre-Reunision types will always despise each other. For example, the Free Democrats contain two very prominent Talossans who were leaders in the RUMP and personally antagonistic to yours truly - I refer to Justice V. Marcianüs and Dr T. Nordselva. I consider some other political opponents - Senator Plätschisch and the "Independent Monarchist" candidate, to name two - to be good friends and collaborators in Talossa.
People can embrace their opponents and even their enemies, given good faith and open communication. Succinctly, we need to show each other we are trustworthy, and that we prefer everyone having fun in Talossa to getting our own way all the time. Good faith and open communication is precisely what the Talossan Centre-Left does not think we have gotten from the King. The King's recent comments re: "the law says I can stretch things out to the last minute re: vetoes, so I will," exemplify his abandonment of good faith - as does his disappearance/reappearance, which is where we started.
To put it bluntly, the Talossan Right has to come to terms with the fact that - no matter how they spin it - if John had not disappeared for 6 months, the monarchical Status Quo would have probably won the Ranked Choice Referendum. John shot his own claims of legitimacy in the foot and lost the support of many monarchists/conservatives. If John continues to act as if he has nothing to account for, the Historic Compromise will be shoved down his throat after this election - and he won't have any chance of regaining his throne in the National Convocation, either.
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on April 30, 2021, 07:44:20 PM
I would take those kind remarks more sincerely if they weren't coming from the person who has pretty consistently accused me of ruining Talossa with my mad schemes and visions and how it would be better for everyone if I just went away.
What I said was that "it probably would be a bit helpful if you resigned and became inactive, if only because it would create a power vacuum and be disruptive (you've been in the government for like five and a half of the last six years)."
That's maybe a painful thing to hear and probably poorly phrased, but you mostly agree with it! That's why you're stepping down from leading your party and the Government, conducting "an experiment to see whether our party is a real social movement with its own vision for the future, and not a Miestra Schiva fan club," as you said just two days ago. And in your party's convention speech, amidst various personal attacks on me, you said again this painful truth: "I have come to the conclusion that I have to step aside from leadership because only that will be the test of whether this is a real political party, which can keep going independent of me."
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on April 30, 2021, 07:44:20 PMPeople can embrace their opponents and even their enemies, given good faith and open communication. Succinctly, we need to show each other we are trustworthy, and that we prefer everyone having fun in Talossa to getting our own way all the time. Good faith and open communication is precisely what the Talossan Centre-Left does not think we have gotten from the King. The King's recent comments re: "the law says I can stretch things out to the last minute re: vetoes, so I will," exemplify his abandonment of good faith - as does his disappearance/reappearance, which is where we started.
Respectfully, it became really hard to have open communication with you during the regency when we were discussing the community jurists appointment. While we were discussing it in good faith and openly, you started copying snippets of what I was saying and sharing them on Facebook to try to make me look bad -- specifically trying to make it seem as though I were suggesting that Txec, our Secretary of State, were somehow corrupt or power-hungry. (I thought that was especially wrong to do because you were so deceptive about it! I bent over backwards in that conversation to make it crystal clear that my worries about making the SoS a judge had nothing to do with him personally!) It wasn't the first time that you shared correspondence like that, but I had to decide that it would be the last for me. That's why I told you that I would consider our conversations to be public ones from then on.
I know that you don't see a problem with doing that, and that's fine -- everyone approaches these things differently. But I was badly hurt by "TalossaLeaks," when years of private correspondence were published by a former RUMP party member. It wasn't really "my" scandal, since all it revealed was that I was consistent in public and in private. You know how I actually feel about you, for that matter, because you got to read what I said about you privately to my friends -- about how I was glad Reunision happened and you were passionate and a great Talossan! I don't know what you say about me in private to your buddies, but I'm sure it's rather less kind.
But the leak still hurt my feelings and I don't like that feeling of betrayal. Like a lot of people, I let my guard down when privately chatting with people in a friendly manner. It's hard for me to simultaneously be open and friendly while also being wary about how a sentence might look out of context. So there's one problem for open and good faith communication, right there.
AD... that was my decision on the Jurists and as Miestra's acting AG, it was /my/ call. I selected whom I felt would be a good fit and as far as the good Doc is concerned, there was no better candidate. As I told you then, we all have to wear multiple hats to make things run around here and I refused to hear nonsense when it came to his appointment.
Gen. Davinescu
Quote from: Þon Txoteu É. Davinescu, O.SPM on May 01, 2021, 09:10:12 AM
that was my decision on the Jurists and as Miestra's acting AG, it was /my/ call.
Tbf to AD, on his side of politics the leader (or King) is usually a figurehead for a backroom negotiator or "chief of staff" to make the real calls, so it's reasonable to assume that's how it works on our side too. It sadly might take you a while to establish that you're not my glovepuppet :D