Councillors of the Eleventh Grand Session of the Estats Xhenerais of the United Provinces of Vuode and Dandenburg and all adult citizens of these United Provinces:
It has long been the tradition of our province that Article III, Section 3 of the Constitution of the United Provinces of Vuode and Dandenburg operates above any other provision in that "Grand Sessions of the Estats Xhenerais are instantly convened and dissolved with those of the national Ziu." Moreover, that any adult citizen of the United Provinces claimed their constitutional right to sit as Councillor in the Grand Session of the Estats Xhenerais, provided such occured during a national election and through publicly announcing the requisite declaration, according to Article III, Sections 2 and 5, has always served as the basis of, and been recognized as constitutionally permissive for, the composition of the Estats Xhenerais. In sum, the referenced-provisions have, through practice, obviated the role of the Cunstaval or other ceremonial circumstance, such as swearing in each member or dissolving each Grand Session, otherwise set forth in our great constitution, and any required oath or swearing in is widely accepted as implicit in the assumption of responsibility in claiming one's seat as Councillor.
Against that backdrop, and in strict adherence to the traditions of these United Provinces in applying their constitution, let it hereby be known that the Eleventh Grand Session of the Estats Xhenerais was dissolved with the national Ziu, and that, from this point onward and in this thread, any adult citizen of these United Provinces may lay claim to their seat as Councillor in the Twelfth Grand Session of the Estats Xhenerais by making the public declaration set forth in Article III, Section 5 of the Constitution of the United Provinces of Vuode and Dandenburg, which is:
"I, [NAME], hereby claim my right to be seated in the next Grand Session of the Estats Xhenerais"
And let it be known that having made such declaration, and in accord with the all other provisions therewith, upon the conclusion of the national election, all adult citizens of these United Provinces having laid such claim, be recognized through operation of law as Councillors to the Twelfth Session of the Estats Xhenerais, and that such having been deemed immediately commenced.
May all adult citizens of these United Provinces come forth and lay claim to constitutional seat as Councillor in the Twelfth Grand Session of the Estats Xehenrais of the United Provinces of Vuode and Dandenburg.
I, Viteu Marcianüs, hereby claim my right to be seated in the next Grand Session of the Estats Xhenerais.
I, Tric'hard Lenxheir, hereby claim my right to be seated in the next Grand Session of the Estats Xhenerais
I, Éovart Grischun , hereby claim my right to be seated in the next Grand Session of the Estats Xhenerais.
Looks like we three make up the Estats Xhenerais. I'll post something more formal in the next few days.
So what is the first order of business, remember i am new to this. I was reading the constitution and it looks like we are supposed to elect a Premier and a Presiding Officer once we are sworn in, is this correct?
Indeed. The only bit I'm not sure about anymore is when exactly our first session begins because the Ziu timetable is a bit different than it used to be.
Quote from: Eðo Grischun on July 09, 2021, 03:25:19 AM
Indeed. The only bit I'm not sure about anymore is when exactly our first session begins because the Ziu timetable is a bit different than it used to be.
It corresponds when the Cosa convenes. The national government may decide to use the first Clark however it chooses, but the EX is from formation to dissolution. So it's already in session. We just need to pick the officers.
I nominate Éovart Grischun for presiding officer and Viteu Marcianüs as Premier
I nominate Councillor Tric'hard Lenxheir for Premier and Councillor Viteu Marcianus as Presiding Officer.
Sadly with only the three of us involved the process of electing officers may become a joke, i don't believe i am qualified for any positions because i don't really understand the workings of the positions or the government yet. I only claimed my seat as a way of learning how things work LOL
Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on July 21, 2021, 02:30:28 PM
... i don't believe i am qualified for any positions because i don't really understand the workings of the positions or the government yet. I only claimed my seat as a way of learning how things work LOL
...
QuoteSadly with only the three of us involved the process of electing officers may become a joke
You are an expert already.
Seriously though, the Provinces are a great place to start. A very low risk 'sandbox'.
I nominate Councillor Tric'hard Lenxheir for Premier and Éovart Grischun for presiding officer
Okay, let's wrap up.
(1) Councillor Tric'hard Lenxheir nominated Éovart Grischun for presiding officer and Viteu Marcianüs as Premier.
(2).Councillor Éovart Grischun nominated Councillor Tric'hard Lenxheir for Premier and Councillor Viteu Marcianus as Presiding Officer.
(3) Viteu Marcianüs nominated Councillor Tric'hard Lenxheir for Premier and Éovart Grischun for presiding officer.
Results:
For Premier--Tric'hard Lenxheir carries support of 2/3 of the chamber (Éovart and Viteu).
For Presiding* Officer--Éovart Groschen carriea support of 2/3 of the chamber (Viteu and Tric'hard).
The Chamber has spoken. I move the vote be certified.
I guess that means i will have to figure out what the premier actually does now, you are putting an awful lot of faith in a very new citizen but if confirmed i will do my best.
Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on August 04, 2021, 08:04:35 AM
I guess that means i will have to figure out what the premier actually does now, you are putting an awful lot of faith in a very new citizen but if confirmed i will do my best.
Whoe--on-set delirium from sleep deprivation actually resulted in a successful post with minimal typos. Go me!
Honestly Tric'hard, you're over thinking this. We may be in our 12th Session, but the passing the Claiming Our Authority Byelaw and Senate National Election Byelaw were the pinnacle of activity. Eðo enacted the UPDs, which have the power of law but can be annulled, although what he enacted is entirely uncontroversial so I cannot imagine why it would be changed. Unfortunately, we never got around to updating our Wiki and had a digest running on Old Witt, but I just made a new thread with the Digest of Byelaws and Decrees.
I began to summarize our Senate law and the issues surrounding it, but it became something else, so I'm going to post it elsewhere.
In any event, take a moment to read our Digest of Byelaws and UPDs in https://talossa.proboards.com/thread/13425/reference-digest-byelaws-decrees?page=1&scrollTo=164597 (https://talossa.proboards.com/thread/13425/reference-digest-byelaws-decrees?page=1&scrollTo=164597). The Senate law is the most controversial (mostly from outside the province), which I address in another thread. The UPDs passed by Eðo are entirely uncontroversial.
Second, I would suggest you take a moment to read our constitution http://wiki.talossa.com/Constitution_of_Vuode_(text) (http://wiki.talossa.com/Constitution_of_Vuode_(text)), drafted by Eðo in 2013, with some minor assistance from Sir T and myself, and ratified in 2013. Vuode fiercely defends this constitution. It's short, sweet, and allows for a high degree of self-governing for a very small province. Granted, some of the provisions have become ceremonial in light of practicality, like the Cunstaval swearing in the E-X Councillors or Premier. At this point, it's an implied swearing in. And I've had to play with the dissolution language for obvious reasons.
So let's iron out a bit of how things work:
The Grand Session is instantly convened and dissolved with the national Ziu--Clark 1, Day 1 of the Ziu = Day 1 of the Grand Session. Writ of dissolution of the Cosa mean end of the Grand Session. That simple. Whether the Cosa and Senat decide to use a month for administrative purposes is their prerogative. We only care about the clock. However, we're supposed to have "six" legislative session that mirror the national Ziu, which are convened and conducted by the Presiding Officer. We've never really done this.
Down to responsibilities: the Premier is the head of the government. They can enact UPDs, which have the power of law but can be repealed with 2/3 majority of the E-X (of course, a future Premier can also repeal the UPD at whim). In the event of a vacant senate seat, the E-X has 10 days to appoint, and if no appointment, the Premier has 5 days, and after that period, it falls to the Crown. That's pretty much it.
The Presiding Officer, on the other hand, convenes and conducts legislative sessions, of which there should be six, and should act in a similar matter to the SOS. They are responsible for maintaining a Digest of Byelaws. In practice, we generally have one ongoing session and bills can be voted on whenever someone calls a vote. That's about it.
All bills require the Cunstaval to assent, and 30 days of silence is considered silent assent.
So don't over think this. Unofficially, the United Provinces fall somewhere between parliamentary supremacy and constitutional supremacy due to realistic aspects of circumstance. I'd argue that the real supreme law of the United Provinces is based on convention as informed by civility, fair play, and realistic expectations. And our convention has been that the more ceremonial/ministerial aspects of the constitution (e.g. swearing in, holding actual sessions) have become implied in practice, but the actual parameters, such as convening sessions, holding seats, voting on laws, passing UPDs, follows the constitution. One might think of it as substance of style.
But very little gets done at the end of the day, and we always hope that will change.
Thank you! I have read the constitution and found it very informative but didn't give much in the way of detail (your post helps a lot). At least now i know what sort of responsibilities i have as both premier and as a councilor, I hope to be active once i gain a full working understanding of how things work. I learn better by doing things than i do by reading about them but this helps a lot!
Quote from: Viteu on August 03, 2021, 11:01:27 PM
Okay, let's wrap up.
(1) Councillor Tric'hard Lenxheir nominated Éovart Grischun for presiding officer and Viteu Marcianüs as Premier.
(2).Councillor Éovart Grischun nominated Councillor Tric'hard Lenxheir for Premier and Councillor Viteu Marcianus as Presiding Officer.
(3) Viteu Marcianüs nominated Councillor Tric'hard Lenxheir for Premier and Éovart Grischun for presiding officer.
Results:
For Premier--Tric'hard Lenxheir carries support of 2/3 of the chamber (Éovart and Viteu).
For Praising Officer--Éovart Groschen carriea support of 2/3 of the chamber (Viteu and Tric'hard).
The Chamber has spoken. I move the vote be certified.
I second the movement
Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on August 05, 2021, 05:13:30 PM
Thank you! I have read the constitution and found it very informative but didn't give much in the way of detail (your post helps a lot). At least now i know what sort of responsibilities i have as both premier and as a councilor, I hope to be active once i gain a full working understanding of how things work. I learn better by doing things than i do by reading about them but this helps a lot!
Glad it helped, typos and all! I'm also more of hands-on learner. You'll do fine.
Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on August 05, 2021, 05:37:38 PM
Quote from: Viteu on August 03, 2021, 11:01:27 PM
Okay, let's wrap up.
(1) Councillor Tric'hard Lenxheir nominated Éovart Grischun for presiding officer and Viteu Marcianüs as Premier.
(2).Councillor Éovart Grischun nominated Councillor Tric'hard Lenxheir for Premier and Councillor Viteu Marcianus as Presiding Officer.
(3) Viteu Marcianüs nominated Councillor Tric'hard Lenxheir for Premier and Éovart Grischun for presiding officer.
Results:
For Premier--Tric'hard Lenxheir carries support of 2/3 of the chamber (Éovart and Viteu).
For Presiding Officer--Éovart Groschen carries support of 2/3 of the chamber (Viteu and Tric'hard).
The Chamber has spoken. I move the vote be certified.
I second the movement
Well, with two votes, looks like seats are assigned. I will step out of the way for Presiding* Officer Groschen to call the session into order.
Quote from: Viteu on August 04, 2021, 09:54:24 AM
Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on August 04, 2021, 08:04:35 AM
I guess that means i will have to figure out what the premier actually does now, you are putting an awful lot of faith in a very new citizen but if confirmed i will do my best.
Whoe--on-set delirium from sleep deprivation actually resulted in a successful post with minimal typos. Go me!
I got too cocky. How long we were going to let my motion for Etho to be
praising officer go?
Post fixed. I should not type posts from my phone.