Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on September 22, 2022, 08:12:32 PMWait, I'm confused. Is the purpose of the bill to "ensure smooth succession in case something happens to the SoS"? Or is it "I think the SoS is politically biased, so I want to force the nomination of a Deputy from a different party to keep an eye on him"?

It is interesting that the Free Democrats convention starts in a week. If Txec dal Nordselva is no longer part of the FreeDems leadership team after that, does the whole purpose for this legislative initiative - and the other one that was voted down on this Clark - simply vanish?

The former is one purpose, Miestra. I referenced the latter as one reason why I suggested myself for the position SHOULD the bill pass as an effort at balancing and my own experience with databases. I proposed the measure as an effort to address multiple concerns, most important of which, is the stated difficulty (by you, the Seneschal, and the SOS) in finding a successor.

Should Nordselva no longer be FreeDems party leader then yeah that is a big concern that is gone and I will honestly, and finally, be relieved. But it still leaves the succession problem.

Quote from: Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă, GST on September 22, 2022, 08:14:37 AM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on September 22, 2022, 07:46:14 AMI am leaning towards withdrawing the bill as it seems my intent is being miscontrued.

That your intent is being misconstrued is certainly possible, and I will be the first to admit, as I said in a PM to you, that I was surprised at your willingness. Sometimes it is difficult to separate what can easily feel as "attacks" from genuine interest in service.

Mr. Secretary, my inquiry as to serving as your deputy was an effort to demonstrate that my desire to ensure the nonpartisanship of the SOS office is not based on personal animosity but principle. I figured, if we have a principal and a deputy both as party leaders then it is a wash for any potential conflicts.

Quote from: Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă, GST on September 22, 2022, 07:29:13 AM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on September 22, 2022, 05:59:05 AMThe goal of the proposal is to move the pressure in the appointment process down to a deputy Secretary of State which you might be able to call an SOS-designee. If that works, then we have potentially months and years to find a future Secretary of State rather than having just weeks ahead of an incumbent Secretary of State notifying the Seneschal of their departure. The goal of the automatic succession process is to remove the pressure from the principal and put it on the deputy. So statutorily, yes, two appointments now, but for practical purposes, just one with the automated succession.

This proposal increases the time available for securing a new SOS and ensures that the next SOS, in cooperation with Dr. dal Nordselva, is trained and ready on Day 1. And there is at least one potential dySOS candidate right now.

You might as well state openly that you are interested in becoming Deputy SoS, since you've been hinting at it. I will state for the record that I agreed to co-sponsor before I knew you wanted the job, which frankly puts me in a tough spot. All the attention of numerous bills written by you and aimed at the Chancery, and maybe even me personally, builds a lot of pressure. I rarely support legislation in an attempt to remain apolitical, and despite the authority I have to Clark bills of my own, I've only ever done so one time before as SoS, and it was to fix an error in the law. I agreed to sponsor this bill because it *might* work, not to create a job opening.

As someone pointed out, I can appoint a deputy any time I want to. Until now, no one has expressed a desire. I was a Deputy SoS for a long time, and it was good training in some aspects of the job (it is much more challenging than I imagined, so hats off to my predecessors), even though I never expected to become SoS myself.

Yes, I reached out to you directly with information on my experience with SQL (within the last two weeks). Before that, I reached out to the Deputy Minister of Technology with the same information (I think about a month ago). But no one has seemed interested in taking me up on the offer for helping. I don't think qualifications is the issue since I have database management experience. Further, I have been the only one harping on the apolitical nature of the SOS.

But that is not the intent of the bill. I hinted at my willingness to be the SOS-designee to show that the issue with finding someone (with actual qualifications in database management, no less) is not insurmountable.

I am leaning towards withdrawing the bill as it seems my intent is being miscontrued.

The goal of the proposal is to move the pressure in the appointment process down to a deputy Secretary of State which you might be able to call an SOS-designee. If that works, then we have potentially months and years to find a future Secretary of State rather than having just weeks ahead of an incumbent Secretary of State notifying the Seneschal of their departure. The goal of the automatic succession process is to remove the pressure from the principal and put it on the deputy. So statutorily, yes, two appointments now, but for practical purposes, just one with the automated succession.

This proposal increases the time available for securing a new SOS and ensures that the next SOS, in cooperation with Dr. dal Nordselva, is trained and ready on Day 1. And there is at least one potential dySOS candidate right now.

Quote from: Lüc on September 22, 2022, 04:49:05 AM

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on September 21, 2022, 05:24:26 PMI'm increasingly wary of this bill because it's more "red-and-green tape". To make myself clear: I think it would be a great thing for the SoS to recruit a Deputy to the Chancery. But I'm not sure about the point of forcing him to under penalty of law - in a situation where there might not be a qualified candidate.

That is more or less where I wanted to get at with my question had I remembered to follow up. It's difficult to find qualified candidates, and we're fixing that by... requiring that we appoint two qualified candidates.

QuoteI've also noticed that the appointment of the Deputy by the same means as the Principal Office - rather than the Principal Office appointing their own Deputy - may well set up a scenario where the SoS and their Deputy don't get on. It's like in those US states where the Lieutenant Governor is elected separately from the Governor, rather than on a joint ticket. They might be political opponents or even from opposite parties, thus making the situation less efficient. The more I look at this, the less I like it.

Besides, if we're requiring consultation, we might as well keep it as is and let the SoS appoint their deputies.

A third objection I have is the automatic promotion of DySoS to SoS. After all, automatic promotions have only caused a constitutional crisis once, right? :p

This bill's aims are noble, but the way I see it, it would cause more problems than it attempts to solve, and, well, I still believe the SoS should have free hand in administering the Chancery, within the law and under the nominal oversight of the Ziu. I'm sure there are better ways of ensuring a safe succession.

I am completely open to suggestions for improvement if commenters believe this noble effort would cause more problems or is objectionable.

But I am glad to have the support of the current SOS in this proposal.

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil, MC EiP on September 21, 2022, 06:21:04 PMWhat is the purpose of the Royal Data Clerk, and what would they be doing that the Ministry of Technology does not already do?

In order to avoid increasing bureaucratic burden I minimized the changes made to what was necessary to achieve the intended result. This means the language around the Royal Data Clerk was transferred over unchanged from the existing statutory measures. I defer to the Chancery on questions related to the purposes of the office and any potential redundancies created by the establishment of the Technology Ministry.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on September 21, 2022, 05:24:26 PMI'm increasingly wary of this bill because it's more "red-and-green tape". To make myself clear: I think it would be a great thing for the SoS to recruit a Deputy to the Chancery. But I'm not sure about the point of forcing him to under penalty of law - in a situation where there might not be a qualified candidate.

I've also noticed that the appointment of the Deputy by the same means as the Principal Office - rather than the Principal Office appointing their own Deputy - may well set up a scenario where the SoS and their Deputy don't get on. It's like in those US states where the Lieutenant Governor is elected separately from the Governor, rather than on a joint ticket. They might be political opponents or even from opposite parties, thus making the situation less efficient. The more I look at this, the less I like it.

This is an understandable concern and one expressed by the current SOS. Based on this and at the recommendation of @Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă, GST, I did add language that includes consultation and advice from the current SOS. This would seem to reduce the likelihood of having a principal and a deputy that are at odds.

I am not clear on the "being forced under penalty of law" part, could you please expand on this? There is no criminal or civil offense should a deputy SOS not be appointed in the same manner as the SOS.

What we are establishing here is an appointed deputy SOS with consultation from the current SOS. That deputy will be trained to take over upon the incumbent SOS's departure thus eliminating the need for a hurried and long search.

I welcome additional feedback and hope my response has addressed at least some of your concerns.

FT News Alert for 21 September 2022 - Quick review of weekly results from the Archery Club's September Virtual Shoot. One more head to head remaining for Week 3.

https://youtu.be/M2mpliL5JXI

Excellent, it worked Luc!

Quote from: Lüc on September 21, 2022, 11:49:21 AMStumbled on a possible fix for the 403. Try again, @Breneir Tzaracomprada ?

Thanks Luc. Testing now.

Quote from: Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă, GST on September 21, 2022, 07:44:04 AM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on September 21, 2022, 07:42:13 AM

Quote from: Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă, GST on September 21, 2022, 07:38:38 AM

Quote from: Lüc on September 21, 2022, 03:11:53 AM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on September 20, 2022, 12:45:52 PM@Lüc unfortunately I am still getting a 403 Forbidden message when making changes to my profile.

This is the first I hear of it. Do you mean *any* changes to your profile, like, just hitting "change profile" to save does that? Or does that trigger only when you change a specific field?

I tried replicating his error code once but didn't have an issue. I think, if I remember correctly, he is trying to update his picture?

Yes, that is correct! For some reason, when I go to update the profile pictures it tells me it is verboten. I am going to try and edit something else now as a test.

Witt really doesn't want to update the "Stoic Brenier pose" 😂

 ;D

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on September 21, 2022, 07:42:13 AM

Quote from: Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă, GST on September 21, 2022, 07:38:38 AM

Quote from: Lüc on September 21, 2022, 03:11:53 AM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on September 20, 2022, 12:45:52 PM@Lüc unfortunately I am still getting a 403 Forbidden message when making changes to my profile.

This is the first I hear of it. Do you mean *any* changes to your profile, like, just hitting "change profile" to save does that? Or does that trigger only when you change a specific field?

I tried replicating his error code once but didn't have an issue. I think, if I remember correctly, he is trying to update his picture?

Yes, that is correct! For some reason, when I go to update the profile pictures it tells me it is verboten. I am going to try and edit something else now as a test.

Just tried to edit my signature and that failed as well unfortunately.
Something else I wanted to broach, is it possible to have a nonbinary option for gender? We currently have male, female, and none.

Quote from: Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă, GST on September 21, 2022, 07:38:38 AM

Quote from: Lüc on September 21, 2022, 03:11:53 AM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on September 20, 2022, 12:45:52 PM@Lüc unfortunately I am still getting a 403 Forbidden message when making changes to my profile.

This is the first I hear of it. Do you mean *any* changes to your profile, like, just hitting "change profile" to save does that? Or does that trigger only when you change a specific field?

I tried replicating his error code once but didn't have an issue. I think, if I remember correctly, he is trying to update his picture?

Yes, that is correct! For some reason, when I go to update the profile pictures it tells me it is verboten. I am going to try and edit something else now as a test.

The difficulties in training and finding a new SOS. Appointing a Deputy that is the automatic successor allows for on-the-job training AND eliminates any uncertainty as to the successor.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on September 20, 2022, 10:50:44 PMSomething just occurred to me about this bill. Does the bill's proposer have a suggestion for who would be the Deputy SoS? Because I'm not sure I can think of many candidates who're not overburdened with all sorts of other duties, right now.

Indeed I do. I checked with the SOS for advice as well.