This is something that has declined in use recently but I think @King Txec and @Mic'haglh Autófil, O.Be definitely have earned a few days of observance for the remarkable amount of updates they've completed on TalossaWiki.

Mr. Speaker,

A terpelaziun for the Immigration Minister, @Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC

She stated in response to a terpelaziun as Seneschal, the following:

QuoteA final note is that the Government is still looking for someone to function as an "immigration greeter", since the previous incumbent found it too hard.

Has the Deputy Minister of Immigration, who was assigned this task, been relieved of his duties or resigned?

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 18, 2025, 08:22:10 PMI would like to register my objection again to you dragging up events from more than ten years ago, and for which Dama Miestra has already apologized to me, in order to deflect from your sexual harassment of another citizen.

Baron, I am more than happy to co-sponsor your resolution if you and Miestra want to co-sponsor mine?
I recognize you two are pals now but her rough music IS an example of toxic and destructive behavior. My compliments are not, which is why I need no contextualizing in my resolution just your words and Miestra's.

I am glad both resolutions are public now and the public can judge me and Miestra as they see fit.

I too welcome cosponsors if you believe that the actions described as rough music are unacceptable and need to be discouraged.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC on June 17, 2025, 04:00:55 PMEstimat Túischac'h, on behalf of the Defence Minister, there are no updates on this event.

I thank the Seneschal for her prompt reply. I will check back in a few weeks.

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on June 04, 2025, 08:49:14 AMMr. Speaker,

This enquiry is for the Defence Minister and follows up on his reply from last month:

Quote from: Bråneu Excelsio, UrN on May 16, 2025, 02:07:28 PMThe Live Promotion Ceremony depens on the number of promotions and exhibitions, but here's a few things we have planned.

We have lined up a Zouaves Recognition Update to happen during May and June.
We will support the Royal Navy in updates and new initiatives to be announced.
We will create a publicly accessible archive highlighting the history of Talossa's military institutions.
Also, we will review and publish a clear, simplified chart of the current Defence Ministry structure.

@Bråneu Excelsio, UrN Concerning the Zouaves Recognition Update, which is expected to occur either in May or June, what updates are there on this event?

Mr. Speaker, in all of the hullabaloo from other terpelaziuns this one slipped my attention. We are now on Day 13 which is nearly double the require response timeframe. @Bråneu Excelsio, UrN Minister?

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 16, 2025, 09:36:18 PM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on June 16, 2025, 09:24:11 PMWhen you all didn't at least reference it as an excellent example of the behavior you want to stop I thought it would make a good Sense of the Ziu to accompany yours.


I will be voting Per on both and welcome co-sponsors as I think rough music deserves to be prevented too.
Don't you, Baron?

I will very obviously be voting against this.  It's a transparent attempt to legitimize your own behavior by implying a false equivalence.  It has all the subtlety and dignity of a child emptying out a "Take One" basket on Halloween.

Well that is not the worst you've called me. At least your rough music is starting to sound better. :)
I will be voting for both as stated earlier.
There is no equivalence. She admitted what she did and you publicly expressed harm. Neither of these things have happened in the case you are presenting.

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on June 16, 2025, 09:18:25 PMThe incidents that you describe occurred more than ten years ago, in 2014 and 2015.  And as the person targeted at the time, I don't appreciate you engaging in this clumsy whataboutism to try to shield yourself from the consequences of your actions.

There are many key differences.  Obviously, of course, there's the fact that it was a decade ago.  There's the fact that I'm saying it's done and not something I want brought up.  And most notably, Dama Miestra directly apologized to me and has shown contrition for her behavior.

This clumsy attempt to try to drive a wedge into the coalition -- a coalition that has united around our disgust for your behavior -- will not succeed.  And it again shows why action needs to be taken.  Since you won't stop, otherwise, and no one deserves to be treated the way that you have treated your target.

This is earnest and I agree you did not deserve to be treated like that by Miestra.
I remembered it when Miestra brought it up early on in the Summit.
When you all didn't at least reference it as an excellent example of the behavior you want to stop I thought it would make a good Sense of the Ziu to accompany yours.
I will be voting Per on both and welcome co-sponsors as I think rough music deserves to be prevented too.
Don't you, Baron?

Whereas, the Green Party has been an observer to and supportive of the laudable efforts of the Summit on Toxicity and Destructiveness (later described as the Summit), and

Whereas, we attempted to bring to the attention of the Summit a more clear-cut and concerning incident involving two of the Summit's leading figures, Seneschal Dame Miestra Schiva and Progressive Alliance MC Baron Alexandreu Davinescu but Summit participants refused, for unknown reasons, to examine it, and

Whereas, under Section 4 of the Cross-Party Joint Statement on Harassment, the Green Party reviews this "Rough Music" incident between Dame Miestra Schiva and Baron Alexandreu Davinescu to first bring it to public attention for the purposes of the Summit's focus on toxic and destructive behavior and second to encourage addressing of future instances of this behavior by the offender, and

Whereas, in the words of Dame Miestra Schiva she admittedly engaged in an extended campaign of harassment she termed rough music due to a perceived attack, in cartoon-form, on her Sufi Islam faith: "Don't play dumb, AD. I told you over and over again at the time that religious bigotry was one of the motivations for Rough Music.", and

Whereas, in the words of Baron Alexandreu Davinescu this campaign led to serious personal distress: "...when Dama Miestra followed me from thread to thread, harassing me with "rough music" until I actually posted a whole thread pleading for her to stop... that bothered me, deeply, and I think that behavior is deeply unacceptable. I think it's because she doesn't think of me or other enemies as real people. In the speech and elsewhere, she's referred to her theory that I'm just "roleplaying" or "playing a game." And I guess if I'm playing a game, then I'm not a real person so she can say whatever she wants. That's why she celebrated -- seriously, celebrated! -- that she'd managed to "get" me with her campaign of harassment... she said it was because she finally felt like she'd managed to get at the real me," and

Whereas, Baron Alexandreu Davinescu, continued, in relation to the actions of Dame Miestra Schiva, stating the following:  "You have said how you are delighted by the fact that you were able to disrupt my mental health and hurt me, and you still appear certain that it was fair and I deserved any cruelty you wanted to inflict.", and

Whereas, more recently there is a rise in a concerning tactic, perhaps a new form of Rough Music by Dame Miestra Schiva as she engages in persistent name-calling of MCs including vulgar terms such as verpăs (penis or dick?) which are made in combination with accusations of harassment, conspiracy-mongering, and abuse, and

Whereas, instead of exploring the clearly abhorrent Rough Music case and more recent antagonistic behavior by the Seneschal herself, the Summit has focused on a case involving MC Breneir Tzaracomprada and the current Secretary of State Luc da Schir, which has neither any acknowledged intent to harass nor public assertions of harm from the proposed victim, ignoring the case where the current Seneschal Dame Miestra Schiva repeatedly acknowledged intent to harass and where Baron Alexandreu Davinescu has, in clear and moving language quoted above, publicly acknowledged the harm of that harassment, and

Whereas, it is imperative that we examine actual admitted, harmful, unrepentant, and undisputed abusive behavior no matter our political alliances otherwise we risk nurturing the very toxic and destructive culture the Summit was convened to address.

Therefore be it known that it is the Sense of the Ziu that any further "rough music" with express intent to disrupt someone's mental health by anyone must not be tolerated by the administrators of Wittenberg and the Chancery and that the truly unbearable impacts borne by some were unfortunate and regrettable.

Similarly, anyone else acting in such a way must meet firm consequences. We encourage the administrator(s) of Wittenberg to be more proactive in their efforts to curtail abuse by other citizens no matter how powerful or aggressive the individual.

Political figures are urged to not use accusations of sexual harassment for political attacks (more rough music) as Talossa has the unfortunate distinction among micronations of having two former leaders convicted of sexual abuse of minors: Iusti Canun of the RUMP and Carlus Xheraltescu of the Free Democrats.

The Chancery is hereby further encouraged to appoint an official to whom this power is delegated, considering that the Secretary of State might feel conflicted if they are personally the target of rough music.

Finally, no one deserves rough music, whether it's from Dame Miestra Schiva or anyone else. It is not fair, it must not be tolerated, and we need to remember the humanity of even those for whom we hold a deep antipathy.

Uréu q'estadra så:
Breneir Tzaracomprada (MC-Green)

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC on June 16, 2025, 04:26:09 PMCan I suggest urgency on this? Brenéir is at it again in the Cosa, attempting to destroy the Túischac'h for attempting to moderate him. Once again, accusations of political bias are all that bad actors need, under the current situation, to make themselves unmanageable.

If by "at it again," you mean referring to your own toxic words and expressing concern over a very dangerous change to the Opposition's ability to hold the Government to account. Then yes I am at it again, Miestra.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC on June 16, 2025, 04:42:53 PMThe Túischac'h is telling the truth. The Government neither asked for any limit on the number of Terpelaziuns, nor necessarily agrees that one is appropriate. The Túischac'h's thoughts on how Terpelaziuns should operate are entirely his own. Although I do like the idea that the actual Leader of the Opposition, elected to that position by the voters, should have precedence over those who are only in the Cosa because it is physically impossible to unelect them. And I really appreciate having a Tuischac'h who is active in and reflective about his role in preserving order and administering Terp-time.

But I must jump into defend him when he is being politically monstered, in a way which is all too familiar to Talossans, by a tamberlan who thinks that yelling POLITICAL BIAS is a free pass for abuse and wild conspiracy accusations. This is yet another reason why we need to give not only the Chairs of the Ziu, but all Wittenberg moderators, real power to smack down all those who act like verpăs, forăs da ciol, or plain and simple raplamandeirs.

Here we go, again, with outlandish statements that only serve to heighten tensions from Miestra.

I have expressed my concern that the suggested reforms which you have posted after consultation from the Speaker will weaken the ability of the Opposition to hold the Government to account. This is not acceptable, Miestra. Especially when the Speaker did act quickly and effectively to lower the temperature by locking the threads where you used inappropriate language you continue to use.

There is no problem here the Speaker does not already have the tools to address which is why I say this is a solution in search of problem. The locked threads stand as a silent testimony to that fact. The bill as proposed will permanently weaken the Opposition's ability to hold the Government to account. This is not in the interest of future governments, future members of the opposition, or the voters.

This bill should be revised or withdrawn.

Quote from: Munditenens Tresplet on June 16, 2025, 12:26:52 PM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on June 16, 2025, 12:20:52 PMAnd you are cooperating with the Seneschal as our Speaker to allow for lessened scrutiny on Government activity.

I was discussing my thoughts on reform as a leader of a political party with the head of government. But if you're held up on the idea that I can't propose reform while I'm Speaker, that's easy enough to fix. I have no desire to craft some sort of fix whenever these threads devolve into personal attacks, for which current law does not provide for any guidance.

No I am not held up on that Dien. What bothers me is your responding to Government concerns around devolving into personal attacks which also lessen the ability of the Opposition to perform its vital function. When you locked the thread I thought that was the perfect reaction but, as usual, the reaction then goes overboard. This is what is happening now. If you called out Miestra and myself and locked the thread then that is the system working. But now you are creating a solution to a problem that does not exist.

Quote from: Munditenens Tresplet on June 16, 2025, 11:57:04 AMRespectfully, I don't believe we have changed the rules every time someone feels uncomfortable. This bill reflects an effort to make changes to allow the presiding officer the ability to actually perform the actions taken in those two recent threads. (And where I did call out "both sides" in the first thread I came to, thank you.) And, with respect to the only clause currently being debated, I personally believe it would prevent these situations from arising again.

You've provided your opinion, I've provided mine. I'm not going to yield my position.

I didn't read that as a both sides statement but may have missed something. Your comments throughout this thread though do not mention their behavior as a motivating factor rather you have focused on the quantity of my questions and stated your belief that they could be harassment which is something Miestra mentioned in one of her terpelaziun replies. Harassment has become a catch-all accusation for anything that bothers the Government now.

Please forgive me for believing you are not being even-handed and that these changes are predicated on responding to their concerns from being held to account then. I am debating that clause because it is the most significant reduction in the Opposition's ability to hold the Government to account.

As I stated when Luc suggested the most recent terpelaziun changes I am fine with someone else asking questions and have stepped back, for example, when Alexandreu asked about Immigration. But when other members of the Opposition continue to be silent I will ensure as I have for three or four terms now that Government ministers are at least trying to meet the obligations they signed up for.

The only thing this will lead to is fewer questions of the Government which will lead to less accountability for the Government. This is a solution in search of a problem, Dien. And you are cooperating with the Seneschal as our Speaker to allow for lessened scrutiny on Government activity.

Quote from: Munditenens Tresplet on June 16, 2025, 11:11:41 AMWe're not talking about uncomfortable and persistent questions. We're talking about pointed, almost asked and answered questions that devolve into personal back and forths. And if you would prefer ministers to do what everyone else in Talossa often does, which is to disappear for long periods of time and avoid the very limited duties that they would otherwise have because they view the constant barrage of questions as a form of harassment, then I suppose a policy of enforcing official questions with Contempt of the Ziu is the appropriate way to fix this, in your view.

As I quoted from Sir Luc in agreement it is a mischaracterization to say that ministers are receiving constant questions. One question per position per month is not unreasonable, Dien. And if they devolve into personal attacks then you should do what you have already done and lock the thread. And I add actually call out all parties but not make changes to terpelaziun policy to allow the Government to avoid uncomfortable questions. This is what your bill in its current form is doing.

This means calling out Miestra when she calls me a "verpa" as well as calling me out for too many supplemental questions. This means reminding Antaghla of her statutory duty to respond to appropriately filed terpelaziuns whether she respects the questioner or not. But it does not mean changing the rules every time someone is uncomfortable or annoyed.

Thanks Dien for confirming we are revising law because the Government and the Speaker are annoyed by an active Opposition.

QuoteDien: "I think the problem is clearly evident. Sending a Terp every month for every minister to ask virtually the same question is not, in my opinion, the purpose of Terps."

This hasn't happened repeatedly. It happened in the first Clark because the Government failed to announce a programme of action. I asked Miestra repeatedly outside of official channels before the Throne Speech and she ignored the question as a part of an apparent boycott. So, I then attempted to ascertain this programme of action through a standard question to each government minister. She, as was her right, referred me to the Throne Speech on behalf of all the ministers which was fine with me. I then used the Throne Speech as the basis of accountability reviews moving forward. This all seemed in line with the purpose of terpelaziuns.

QuoteDien: "When ministers are constantly declining to answer questions and deferring to the Seneschal to answer them, I think that shows how discouraged they feel."

Discouraged by needing to report on their service to the Nation once a month? This is not an acceptable reason to reduce the capacity of Opposition members to hold the government to account. You are attempting to make it easier for the Government to avoid accountability and I'm concerned it will reduce the quality of service the Nation receives.

QuoteSir Luc: "The current volume is honestly not annoying at all, since it amounts to a couple of questions per position per month; I think no minister should complain about having to answer a few questions."

I am referencing the quote above from our current Secretary of State as something I agree with. The comment was liked by Miestra at the time so I will assume she agrees.

One or two questions per month is not pestering. My standard has been and will continue to be that it is not unreasonable for government ministers to report to the Ziu at least once per month. No one is getting paid, you are correct. I am not getting paid for my consistent efforts to hold the Government to account either, Dien. But this is not pestering, it is a vital function which has helped each Government do better when necessary. It should not be whittled down because people are annoyed any more than the right of a free press should be whittled down because the Government or the Speaker is annoyed by uncomfortable and persistent questions.