Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Yesterday at 07:49:24 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on Yesterday at 07:42:08 PMI think there's no barrier to these things being expected to come into effect immediately upon ratification:

• Seat limit change

I think that these requirements require a process that cannot be expected to have occurred (ranked lists) or which have a timer running, and so they will happen with the 64th Cosa:

• Baseline 20 seats
• Ordered list
• Redistribution via ordered list
• Consent to be on a list required

The seat limit change is related to the abolition of off-listers, so as long as off-listers are abolished for the 63rd Cosă onwards, I believe this timeline should be fine.

I missed two things:

• No more new citizen seats, taking effect immediately after ratification
• No more off-list, which I think I agree takes effect immediately after ratification

Okay, so these are the effects of the bill:

• Baseline 20 seats
• Ordered list
• Redistribution via ordered list
• Seat limit change
• Consent to be on a list required

I think there's no barrier to these things being expected to come into effect immediately upon ratification:

• Seat limit change

I think that these requirements require a process that cannot be expected to have occurred (ranked lists) or which have a timer running, and so they will happen with the 64th Cosa:

• Baseline 20 seats
• Ordered list
• Redistribution via ordered list
• Consent to be on a list required

I would have said a lot differently about some of those things, but Miestra's argument as you recount it is rock-solid... parties can't have ordered lists going into this election, and so effects cascading from that are nullified.

Maybe a PD is in order to clarify expectations and the timeline, since you're right that this is confusing.  That's what happens when you rush, I guess... we really hustled to make the last Clark with that one.

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Yesterday at 05:35:44 PMWhen and where did the Ziu agree that this particular baseline change to Org.IV.2.1 would only enter into effect during or after February?

The Ziu affirmed the underlying rule governing when changes to the size of the Ziu would come into effect by passing the same language with that requirement, unchanged.

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Yesterday at 05:35:44 PMThat's an interesting point, actually. Miestră believes that ironclad lists cannot come into effect immediately because electoral lists under the current pre-referendum system are not the same form as the ironclad post-referendum system, i.e. they're not numerically ordered. In her view, the Cosă constitutes under the old rules as soon as the election results are published, but before any amendments enter into effect.

If this isn't a reason for all of us to come to an agreement as to when and how the amendment enters into effect and what ramifications it would have, I don't know what is.

That's actually a really good point.  Could people be fairly held to requirements that didn't yet exist, knowing that they probably will but might not exist in the future?  I don't think so... I think you're right on this one, and I'm wrong.  I think the whole thing will come into effect not in this upcoming Cosa, but the next one.  Good thinking.

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Yesterday at 05:26:55 PMBut even if the baseline change would enter into effect immediately rather than next year, would that mean the 63rd Cosă would have 20 seats? And what about the other changes to the Cosă's composition such as seat limits and iron-clad party lists, would they come into effect with the 63rd Cosă or the 64th? We've actually been debating this on the URL Discord and it seems the only thing we could agree on is that this stuff is confusing lol. I believe there is a lot of potential for confusion and grave misunderstandings here that we would be better avoiding at all costs, so it'd be practical to collectively agree on some sort of "timeline of events" beforehand.

There's no other provision requiring a waiting time for any other changes, so I think everything else would come into play after the referendum passed.  I don't think there's anything to hold up anything like the ironclad Cosa lists, which will come into effect immediately after the referendum is passed (so everyone should prepare for that now!)

The Cosa will have 200 seats this upcoming term, and 20 after that.

The Ziu affirmed a change, yes.  But it also affirmed the requirement that a change to the size of the Ziu would happen after the clock ran.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC on Yesterday at 05:01:01 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on Yesterday at 04:59:58 PMThanks!  I got it stuck in my head the other way for some reason, and now I keep making that mistake.

You know who originally used to spell it that way? The guy who was its original editor, ESB

Do you think that's where I got it from?  Maybe.  Sometimes when you see a word for the first time, it sticks that way.

I was hanging out with a friend the other night, and she told me that equaniminous isn't a word.  It's "equanimity" but "equanimous," without the extra syllable.  But I can't get my head around it.

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Yesterday at 04:59:03 PMThis has nothing to do with annoyance. Just to be clear, here is the sentence in question:

QuoteThe party seats shall total 200, or another number which may be set by law, with the provisos that any such change will not take effect until the next election following the passage of a calendar year; and that this number may never be less than twice the number of Senators minus one.

The way that IV.2.1.1 is phrased currently, the word "such" in the subordinate clause listing the provisos refers back to the directly preceding subordinate clause, not the whole sentence. Choosing to interpret that sentence in such a way that these provisos apply to all changes to the size of the Cosă instead of merely "such" change such as "another number which may be set by law" would risk rendering it ungrammatical to me. Amending this part of the OrgLaw is not merely setting "another number" "by law", but a direct modification of the baseline, and the provisos still would only apply to statutory law overriding that baseline.

Then again, maybe I'm not as good as English as I thought...!

Your interpretation is spot-on, but that doesn't really have any bearing on what I'm saying.  I'm saying that this was a change to the party seats that has been set by law, and that change happened with the passage of the statutory change earlier in the term.  The Organic Law says that "such change" takes effect after a certain amount of time.  That limit was just affirmed by the Ziu again.

Thanks!  I got it stuck in my head the other way for some reason, and now I keep making that mistake.

As part of our "try a lot of new things" initiative, we want to try to create real enclaves of Talossa.  By the end of next term, we want three real Talossan embassies in three countries.  We're talking flags, signed commissions from His Majesty on display, and a placard with more information.  Give people something real to make Talossa feel more real, and we'll get people with more earnest interest.  If we record audio versions of La C'hronica, we can even have a soundtrack!

Think about what it means when someone walks into a coffee shop in Zürich or a pub in Melbourne and there's a Talossan flag on the wall with a royal commission next to it. That's not a website. That's not a forum post. That's a real thing in a real place, and it makes people stop and ask questions. Every single one of those conversations is worth more than a hundred Reddit ads, because the person asking is already curious!

The audio La C'hronica angle is also bigger than just ambiance for an embassy, too. Right now our newspaper is a text document that maybe forty people read. An audio version turns it into something you can listen to on a commute, something you can share with a friend who would never click a forum link but might listen to a five-minute podcast-style recording. It's another surface area for contact with people who don't know we exist yet. And if we're already recording audio, we can clip highlights for social media, for the embassy playlist, or for whatever else we come up with.

Forum-based communities have been declining across the internet for twenty years. Wittenberg is the heart of Talossan civic life, but the forum format has real limitations for attracting and retaining new members. New citizens face a wall of historical context, inside references, and ongoing debates into which they have no point of entry.  The official unofficial Discord has been a fun side community -- we should look into how we can integrate it (or an equivalent) into our civic life.  It turns out that saying "hi" on Discord is a first step some people like more than a forum post.

The data backs this up. We know that Wittenberg activity correlates with immigration applications, and we know that ghosting during the naturalization window is our biggest bottleneck. People drop off because they lose momentum, and momentum is easier to maintain when you can just pop into a Discord channel and see people talking than when you have to navigate a forum thread with six months of context you missed. Discord isn't a replacement for Wittenberg -- the Cosa isn't going to debate legislation in a chat room. But Discord can be where someone wanders in, says "hey, what's Talossa," and gets a human response in ten minutes.

We also need to be honest about what the forum format costs us in terms of the kind of citizen we attract. Right now, we self-select for people who are already comfortable with forums -- and that's an increasingly narrow slice of the internet-literate population. Plenty of people who would make great Talossans, who would write laws and learn the language and run for office, never get past the first look at Wittenberg because the format itself feels like homework. Let's broaden our horizons a little!

We have cool Google Map overlays and a lot of people who have been interested in cantons right down to the ground, but there's no good map anyone could print.  We should change that and get together a high-quality image of our national territory, with overseas possessions inset, and make it beautiful and well-marked with specific cultural landmarks.  It would be something else to put up at our embassies.

A good map does something that no amount of text can do -- it makes a place feel like a place. Right now, if you want to see Greater Talossan Area geography, you're pulling up a Google Maps overlay on your phone and zooming around. That's fine for utility, but it doesn't hang on a wall. It doesn't make someone say "wait, what is this?" when they see it framed at an embassy or pinned up in someone's apartment. We need a proper cartographic product -- something with the provinces clearly delineated, key landmarks labeled, the overseas possessions inset in the corner, maybe even some Talossan-language labels for the major features. Something that looks like it belongs in an atlas, because Talossa belongs in an atlas.

And this is another one of those projects where the investment pays off in different ways.  The map goes on the embassy wall. It goes in a press kit. It goes on talossa.com as a downloadable PDF. It's one more piece of real, tangible Talossan material culture -- something you can hold in your hands that says "this is a real country with real geography and people who care enough to make beautiful things about it." We've got citizens who have poured years of love into the canton-level detail of this territory. Let's turn that love into something everyone can see!

The Organic Law is definitely a law, and the Ziu just reaffirmed the intended waiting period that must elapse before a change in the size of the Ziu is in effect.  I think it's pretty plain, even if it seems annoying.

I think you'd have a stronger case if you were arguing that the clock was reset to start over, really, as opposed to the clock being eliminated.

After most of a term, where are we when it comes to our goals?  We already know that we've failed on our promise to rob His Majesty and give everyone all of His Grace's money, but where have we succeeded?

We promised to prioritize immigration by publicizing the issue and trying lots of new ideas.  This has been a huge priority for our government, and we've tackled it in a bunch of different ways.  We've tried different forms of advertising at different times, and kept an eye on what worked.  More on that later.  But before we could even accomplish this, we had to remake the entire immigration system!

Now and the first time, everything isn't hosted on a web-based form accessible to anyone with login information to the national website, but instead on a secure form accessible only to a few authorized people.  And we've begun tracking how the immigration process proceeds -- when and from where are we getting applications that are successful eventually, what is causing hiccups in the process, and how are things going generally?

We also conducted an experiment: we promoted Talossa with Reddit posts and short-form videos at the start of the term, then took a break in the middle of the term, then resumed.  And how about that: we saw healthy immigration at the start of the term, then zero after we stopped promotion, and then it's back to decent (but not great) levels again.

Now, obviously it's a good thing on its own that we rebuilt the immigration system to save time and energy, and that we are getting actual information back, and that we fixed a security hole with hundreds of people's private information, and that we ran a cool experiment.  But we need to concentrate now on putting this all to work and getting this machine running.  Let's introduce more people to this amazing thing that is Talossa!

We promised to update and support Infotecă, the people's immigration portal.  We accomplished this in a big way!  The entire thing has been overhauled.  Now it's not just a collection of dry statistics... it's now presented in a beautiful manner with an automatically generated summary at the top of the page.  It's still all of the people's information, but now it's even better.  And the best part is that it's still just the same amount of work for future governments: five minutes a month!



We promised to cut administrative red tape and reduce bureaucracy.  While we did okay here, we didn't succeed in making many permanent changes.  Our main success was fixing a bunch of blank spots and hiccups in the law with 67RZ10, as well as creating El List del Seneschal to actually organize everything and make it accessible to everyone (more on that one soon).

We also wanted to change the way the Cabinet works so that it's not bound by such rigid jobs, so that roles can instead be swapped around as needed in a more sensible way.  But this plan got a lot of push-back, and it's going to need more thinking on the best way to accomplish that fluidity.  Maybe there are better aspects to focus on?  Let us know your thinking!

We promised a fresh look at our web presence, making sure our online tools are being used in the best way possible.  And while we did take a look at it, our conclusion was that we think we might need to entirely rethink how we're approaching our web presence.  We'll talk more about this in the campaign, but it's 2026 and in a lot of ways we're still operating like it's 1996, focusing on this forum.  That's holding us back and it doesn't match the way a lot of people (most people?) are using the Internet today.  So before we make big changes, we want the people's vote of confidence.

We promised to make access to government infrastructure easier, promote a repository of useful files and images, and create starter kits for everyone to use.  Unfortunately, the two organizations which formed this term did not have any interest in this assistance.  We're going to continue to encourage everyone and we'll get this done!

We promised never to secretly block potential immigrants, and promised we would pass legislation to eliminate this government power.  The first bill of the term was a revamped Public Process Bill, 62RZ01!  That particular government power is completely gone and dead, and we won't let it return.

In fact, we did some other work to preserve the rights of the people.  Did you know that the Seneschal used to be able to make permanent laws as long as they were counter-signed by His Majesty?  It was an incredibly broad power, but it cut out almost the entire Ziu!  But thanks to 62RZ07, this power has been cut down to size.  Once the referendum passes, the Seneschal will only be able to make temporary laws that will automatically sunset after three months.  Emergencies and oversights happen, but if the Seneschal can't get the Ziu to agree to a law, then it will automatically be canceled.

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on August 03, 2026, 06:51:09 PM

Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on August 03, 2026, 06:46:11 PMI think you could make that case for sure if that provision had been removed from the Organic Law, but we made sure to keep it in and it refers to laws in general. This was even discussed during the drafting process specifically, with regards to what effect it would have on the clock - it didn't reset the clock, but neither did it eliminate the clock.

No, this was in reference to something else. I was asking whether specifically renumbering Lexh.H.4.1.1 would reset the clock, and came to an understanding that it didn't. Enshrining the 20-seat Cosă into the OrgLaw was something I insisted on pretty much at the tail end of the drafting process, and personally I had assumed that all amendments enter into effect immediately after the appropriate referendum passes, and that the one-year delay refers exclusively to statutory changes -- if it didnt, the word "such" in "with the provisos that any such change" wouldn't make much sense to me, though this could be a language barrier thing.

EDIT: I don't mean to kick off a debate in this thread, I was moreso wondering about the precise wording of the referendum question, and whether that's all legally sound. As far as I understand it as a non-lawyer it wouldn't be, and I wanted to direct attention to it to clear up potential misunderstandings.

I think it's a great question. I understand where it's coming from! In my opinion, it's hard to read "law" in such a way that it doesn't include the Organic Law, though, and I wouldn't quite understand how to make it that way so that the proviso doesn't apply.

I also think you're right that we probably shouldn't chat about it more on this thread. @Sir Lüc , would you split off the last few posts please into their own thread?

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on August 03, 2026, 04:50:32 PMI have a question about the referendum on 62RZ26.

It mentions that the reduction of the Cosă's size to 20 seats would only take effect after February 2027, which is the timeline set forth from the Pseudo-Real Cosă Act. However, since 62RZ26 is an amendment, and the delayed effect of Cosă size changes only applies to changes made via statute (at least that's how Org.IV.2.1 reads to me), is it not rather the case that, were the referendum to pass, the size change would go into effect immediately?

I think you could make that case for sure if that provision had been removed from the Organic Law, but we made sure to keep it in and it refers to laws in general. This was even discussed during the drafting process specifically, with regards to what effect it would have on the clock - it didn't reset the clock, but neither did it eliminate the clock.

Azul!  In the next few weeks, we will be taking a look at where we've succeeded over the past term, where we've fallen short, and where we want to go in the future.  We've tried lots of new things and have a lot to be happy about, and there's great things planned ahead!

Full Party Name: The Progressive Alliance

Party leader: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

50-word statement:  The work continues. Support the Progressive Alliance as we advance responsible governance in Talossa. We have strengthened privacy protections, modernized immigration, and expanded national outreach. Together, let us establish embassies, reimagine our online civic forum, and develop official national cartography.

List of candidates:

• Baron Alexandreu Davinescu
  
• Sir X. Pol Brigă
  
• Françal I. Lux
  
• Mximo Carbonel
  
• Duke John
  
• Tong Mun Kit
  
• Moinul Moin
  
  

I will be running for reelection in the glorious province of Maritiimi-Maxhestic.

Thank you for your interesting inquiry! I believe it would be appropriate for me to consult one of our heralds with specific domain knowledge here. I will do so.

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on July 27, 2026, 09:31:46 PM

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on July 25, 2026, 01:22:49 PMI have run across the thread a few times and perhaps there has been movement offline. Has there been any progress on the CoA Knightification request by @Iason Taiwos ?

@Iason Taiwos Checking in on this check-in

This is inappropriate, S:reu Tzaracomprada. You are not a member of the Coletx. While your interest is appreciated, an appropriate thing to do would have been to send a private message if you were earnestly inquiring.