This version of Wittenberg is now the legal national forum for Talossa! Feel free to explore it, and to check out the threads for feedback, requests and criticisms to make sure Wittenberg is tailored to you.

See likes

See likes given/taken

Your posts liked by others

Pages: [1] 2 3
Post info No. of Likes
The matter of party names Given how omnipresent the political aspect is in Talossa, I'm honestly amazed that most parties don't already have Talossan translations of their names. I've listed the parties for this Cosă and some translations I came across below. Feel free to share your own thoughts on the matter.

Awakening and Magnifying Passion (AMP)
- Reveglhar es Magnhificar la Paßiun (RMP) [by me]
- Reveglharh es Magnhificarh dal Paßiun (ReMP) [by Iac]

The only difference between the two options is the article. I can't really explain it, but using "la" in this instance sounds more natural to me.

Free Democrats of Talossa (FreeDems)
- *Democrätsen Livereschti da Talossa (--) [by Miestrâ]
- Democrätici Livereschti da Talossa (DemLiv) [by me]
- Democrätici Liverats da Talossa (DeLTa) [by Iac]

The word for "democrat" is "democrätic" -- "democräts" doesn't show up in the dictionary, and even if it did its plural form would be "democrätsilor". Anyway, the choice between "liverescu" and "liverat" is pretty arbitrary; I just followed Miestrâ's choice here. "DemLiv" is a more direct translation of the English acronym, though admittedly "DeLTa" sounds cooler.

Make Talossa Great Again (MTGA)
- Fäts Talossa Grült da Nhouă (FTGN) [by me]
- *Reindarh Talossa Grült da Nhoua (RTGN) [by Iac]

I couldn't find "reindar" in the dictionary... besides that, I interpreted the "Make" as an imperative instead of an infinitive. The original quote gives off that vibe IMO.

New Peculiar Way (NPW)
- Zireziun Nouâ Peculiaristà (ZNP) [by Miestrâ]
- *Zirecziun Nouâ Peculiaristà (ZNP) [by Iac]

"Zirecziun" is a typo. But aside from that, I *hate* how loose this quasi-official translation is. I would've prefered something like "Noveu Vej Pecüliar (NVP)", englishiness be damned. I don't know, did the original Peculiar Way have a Talossan name? Maybe we could reuse it.

Peculiar Nationalist Party (PNP)
- Parti Naziunalistà Pecüliar (PNP) [by me]
- *Partì Pecüliar da Naziunalismeu (PPN) [by Iac]

Sorry for tooting my own horn here, but I genuinely believe my translation is the better one. It even keeps the abbreviation intact!

Zefençadeirs del Päts Talossan (ZPT)
- none

This one is thankfully pretty straightforward.

December 05, 2019, 05:11:45 PM
Re: Glheþinaziun d'ar friul noveu We'd need a unified orthography first I'm afraid...

I don't know, maybe we could develop one for this project.
What do you guys think? @Miestrâ Schiva, UrN @Magniloqueu Épiqeu Ac’hlerglünä da Lhiun @Iac Marscheir

December 06, 2019, 09:12:03 AM
Re: The matter of party names
I don't know what a substantive is.  My head goes fuzzy even when Googling the difference between nouns, verbs and adjectives.  I have a loose to middling grasp of those three, anything beyond that is brainiac material to me.
In simple terms, substantives/nouns are for things or people, verbs are for actions and adjectives are for descriptions.
"house" is a noun, "to eat" is a verb and "green" is an adjective.

Why does it even matter what I meant?  Whatever makes sense in my head doesn't need to make the same sense in yours.  We all see the words 'peculiar', 'nationalist' and 'party', and we all see them in the same arrangement and order.  Can't it just be translated word by word?

I understand that the word order will probably change.  Like, in Spanish 'white cat' becomes 'cat white', but in it's still just blanca for white, and gato for cat. How come Peculiar ends up as Peculiarity?  That's a different word.  Does Talossan not have a word for Peculiar?
It matters because translating isn't about exchanging words verbatim, the result is often gibberish. The Spanish example you gave is accidentally perfect: "gato blanca" would be wrong because 'gato' is masculine and 'blanca' is feminine. 'blanca' would have to be masculine and thus be 'blanco' but thats an unnecessary tangent.

Talossan does have a word for "peculiar", it is an adjective. If we were to translate the English name into Talossan in the most verbatim way possible, the result would be "Parti Naziunalistà Pecüliar", which would describe a party that is Peculiar(ist) and Nationalist.

December 06, 2019, 09:24:44 AM
Re: Glheþinaziun d'ar friul noveu
I think that whichever of you guys actually wants to take responsibility for getting SIGN started and making policy on orthography and everything else will be recommended for the Order of the Purple Tongue by myself.

Sadly, everything I saw over the last term was everyone saying "no not me" and ducking for cover, while agreeing that someone else should do it.
I didn't see that, I saw people who couldnt agree on much, if anything.

Setting up SIGN and declaring spelling reforms is really easy. The most important and difficult part is to actually convince everyone else to actually follow the spelling reforms you declared, because what's the point of having official spelling rules if nobody follows them?

I could just set up SIGN and declare that the spellings that I outlined in the PDF in my signature are now the One True Orthography(TM), but unless everyone else involved has a sudden change of heart, this would get us nowhere. It'd probably piss people off and make the job even more difficult in future. Though if you think that unilaterally declaring stuff is not only fine but actually the way to go, I will happily do just that.

December 06, 2019, 02:46:49 PM
Re: Marcel c'è nünc El Duceu Lüc noticed the new Witt supports multiple languages and suggested we localise it into Talossan. I love the idea, but which spelling do we use? If more than one person works on a localisation, we'd either have different conflicting spellings next to each other or we'd have to agree on which system to use consistently.

In the meantime other things in the kingdom need translations too, and again, which spelling do we use?

At the very very least, we could agree on some kind of makeshift solution until the big "Unified Standard" is finalised. Like, we could just directly compare how each of us spells stuff (one of the reasons why I made the PDF in my signature, I advise that you guys have something like that as well) and find a common denominator that way. Please?

December 07, 2019, 10:51:41 AM
Re: SIGN rules Some off-the-cuff ideas I had at 1:30am:

  • Automatic membership for (former) CÚGers when they ask for it, to make the transition easier
  • As little bureaucracy as possible: there's no need for (sub)committees or strict hierarchies when we're only ~4 people
  • Voting on proposals as they come up: the CÚG used to collect proposals into 'packages' of sorts to be voted on before a fixed date (that being Llimbaziuă) which strikes me as superfluous as of now
  • Emphasis on descriptivism: despite my constantly annoying people around me because of spelling stuff, SIGN should not walk around and proclaim what is and isn't correct, that's the speakers' job. the Scurzniă Gramatică explicitly stated that only the CÚG can authorise the introduction and use of new words which is painfully ass-backwards. At most SIGN should recommend stuff for consistency's and/or good style's sake, no more and no less.
  • Research on older forms of Talossan: does anyone know what, say, mid-80s Talossan look like? Wouldn't it be useful to know what it looked like in at least some circumstances? We should definitely try to research that more.
What else?

December 07, 2019, 06:45:57 PM
Re: SIGN rules Oh, something that we have to get done ASAP once SIGN has formed is updating, urgently.
December 08, 2019, 10:45:10 AM
Re: Marcel c'è nünc El Duceu
I do think it is safe to assume /c/ for ‹q›, or at least a palatalised /kʲ/, and that the annotation as “kj” was only a crutch, because “c” was used for /ts/ and other IPA symbols were not available (e.g.“ëS” for [əʃ].
A few years back, I had the discussion of whether “qátor” wasn’t supposed to be /cator/, because it is derived from the Insular (p-)Celtic word for the numeral, which has a palatal velar stop. Cresti, if I remember correctly, seemed to agree.

Sir Tomás gives [katër] as the pronunciation of qator in his 1999 addenda/errata to the ScurzGram (link), though I wouldn't mind allowing ['kjatər] or ['kjator] as long as we can all agree that its spelled with a Q. Though if I'm honest, I thought qator was derived from quattuor as a replacement of the former Celtic form ceatháir [kahër] (which, as you said, should've had [c]).

Interesting. I am not sure however to interpret the part with “posh/mush”, because that does not rhyme for me even with the shwa. ScGr2 says: “When the ending is stressed, it is pronounced [aS]. When unstressed, it is pronounced [ëS]. […] Two irregular verbs have aberrant endings, but still end in -rë. These aberrant verbs are irë [iëS] […]”
Personally, I interpret this as Madison not understanding how i-stem verbs work. I will shrug at that for the moment, but I would suggest either a spelling reform to “íar(h)” and “tíar(h)”, or actually using a spelling pronunciation.

It's really annoying that insisted on using Englishy pronunciation guides instead of the IPA because of stuff like this. In General American, "posh" and "mush" would be pronounced as [pɑʃ] and [mʌ̟ʃ] respectively, which would be clumsy approximations of [aʃ] and [əʃ]. Not really a fan of "pronunciation reforms" honestly.

I mean, I do not really care. Both seem valid and logical, but the “-rh” is somewhat unique, and worth keeping as an infinitive suffix, too.

-rh for the infinitive was probably the second most controversial aspect of the 2007 reform, right after Î-gate. Personally I'm just glad that there was an agreement one way or the other.

By the way, one correction I do have, I checked again, is that “acestilor” should have a [ʃ] for the “s”, because ScGr2 lists it as “aCeSCëlër”.

Right, my mistake. I'll fix that right away.

As to the /l/ → [ð], I think there may be a case for the /l/ becoming a voiced interdental fricative intervocalically, at least optionally, because ScGr2 says:
Other peculiar phonetic features include the fronting of word-initial [l] to [D] (as in English “this”) between vowels: the phrases la divertà (“the fun”) and la livertà (“the liberty”) are pronounced alike: [la Diverta]. This innovation has even crept into a few word-medial situations, e.g. fodiclâ [foDiklë], “follicle”.
I'm not sure. For me it's pretty telling that Ben felt the need to respell it with a D even back then. Ben seemed to think it was just an exception to the rule. I mean, I guess we could go and ask him sometimes.

EDIT: For the purposes of this temporary short-term standard though, I'd rather stay as safe as humanly possible and leave the big reforms to the Unified Standard.

December 09, 2019, 04:42:35 AM
Re: Marcel c'è nünc El Duceu El glheþ schi tent 'n aisþetică, mas c'e'n aisþetică... special à ça. Come en zía-si, quirkească.
December 09, 2019, 05:15:57 PM
Re: Glheþinaziun d'ar friul noveu Some tentative guidelines:

  • Use the provisional spelling (please)
  • Use "voi" forms
  • If you're unsure on how to translate a word or set phrase, ask in this thread

Probably more to follow

December 11, 2019, 10:44:21 AM