Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial on June 07, 2021, 05:06:43 PM
The statute in question begins with the words "Whoever under oath or affirmation orally makes a false material statement which the person does not believe to be true, in any matter, cause, action or proceeding, before any of the following, whether legally constituted or exercising powers as if legally constitutedis guilty of a Class H felony", which sound like what youre asking for.

Thanks for that - that's the basis for a Talossan Perjury Bill right there, lol.

QuoteI'm afraid I'd have to sift through 173 years worth of court cases to find everything that might be relevant (a problem with Common Law in general) so probably not.

That's precisely right. My opponents want a Common Law system based on stare decisis. Incorporating Wisconsin law into Talossan law means that Wisconsin precedent becomes relevant. Only actual trained lawyers in the Wisconsin jurisdiction are capable of doing that. Cresti himself commonly brought up Wisconsin precedents in Talossan court cases; and yet some people who defend this transclusion of Wisconsin law also say that "Talossan law must be open to amateurs".

I've suggested a Civil Law system where only the text of statute matters, but that wasn't popular.

An additional problem here is because of how the royal veto works, I have to reintroduce this bill exactly the same as passed by the last Ziu. I mean, I could "tweak" the exact provisions of what kind of extra-Talossan crimes might be prosecutable in Talossa; another good amendment might be to bring in a Public Defender system for people who can't represent themselves in Talossan court (because they're in jail or whatever). But because the (current) King's vetoes are so capricious - he almost always waits until the Ziu debate is over, then pulls out a veto if he feels like it - then there's no point trying an amended bill which will probably just be vetoed itself on relatively spurious grounds.

Furthermore, I have reached out to certain heavyweight Talossan legal beagles to write statute law on "perjury, harassment, counterfeiting and bribery", so hopefully that project will be coming soon. As Marcel says you can Google it, but only if you know what you're looking for. Before I started this process I had no idea that such things were even covered by the sections of Wisconsin law written into Talossan law - El Lex does not list "perjury. harrassment, counterfieting and bribery" among the issues covered by Wisconsin law in Talossa. I have to also add that Marcel could find out what the penalties for perjury are in Wisconsin. Since I'm too busy right now, could Marcel also Google what the legal definition of perjury is under Wisconsin law? And all the legal issues (including judicial precedent) involved in finding someone guilty of perjury, that Talossan courts would currently have to know?

Further, these issues were only raised after the original version of this bill was Clarked - by the very same trained lawyer who included these sections into Talossan law in the first place, a fellow who is relatively inactive these days. I feel like I'm going mad sometimes trying to explain why it was not right that there were whole sections of Talossan law that only Cresti knew existed. And anyway - as Marcel points out - the penalties are inappropriate for Talossa, which is a good enough reason in itself for removing these sections.

We also have to remember that under Talossan law, the Courts can't do a single thing until someone brings a case. There's a lot of effort going into thinking up "edge cases" whereby some Talossan lawyer hates someone so much that, when he finds out they got 10 days in jail for making an audio porn tape*, he gets together a case to get them the Talossan death penalty; and then the UC, who hates this person just as much, ignores the bit of the new bill which says "strict proportion" and banishes them or declares it legal to hunt them for sport or something. As opposed to the current system, where we can't do jack about it as a Kingdom when we find out a prominent citizen raped little children.

* actually happened to the late Frank Zappa, he was entrapped

Very excited to hear of any specific amendments people want to suggest.

Quick quiz, Glüc: do you know what Talossa's current laws against harassment, perjury, etc. are? No you don't, because they're not in El Lexhatx, they're (apparently) in Wisconsin law somewhere, and AD actively mocked me because I didn't already know that.

It's the incredible hypocrisy and dishonesty that gets me. "With judicial discretion, people won't know what the law is". And we don't know what the law is now, unless we know exactly what sections to look up in Wisconsin law. Or even how to look things up in Wisconsin law in the first place. AD will come back and say that that's not a burden on average Talossans, and if you agree with that... well.

As we found out with the question of the monarchy, if people like the status quo, they will not engage in good faith to change things unless you give them a worse alternative. So: have at it.

It is my intention to resubmit this bill to the First (real) Clark of the 56th Cosa. Note that under Organic Law VII.11, it will not be subject to royal veto.

However, I will happily withdraw it before then in favour of any other bill which accomplishes both of the below:

(a) removes Wisconsin law from El Lexhatx;
(b) takes into account the objections made by the King in his veto decision, and Sir Cresti and everyone's favourite Baron in the thread above;

and is able to get a majority and avoid another Royal veto. Removing Wisconsin law is that much of a priority for me. I will also note that I will totally support any bill which makes "harassment, perjury, bribery or counterfeiting" crimes under indigenous Talossan law as a companion to this.

Just freshening the old document up to align it with the new Constitution.

Quote1. Any citizen may propose a draft of a bill or of a resolution to the General Assembly, and leave it for discussion for as long as they want, revising it as often as they want. A Bill is a proposal for a new law, or for an amendment to an existing law; a Resolution is a simple statement of the views of the General Assembly with no legal effect, a ratification of an election or the confirmation of a nomination.

2. Once they like it, they submit the draft for official publication. An officially published draft of a bill or of a resolution shall be denoted by the word PROPOSAL: at the beginning of the subject line.
       
3.1 Once officially published, citizens have 7 days to officially publish an amendment to the bill. The Bill may go directly to a FINAL VOTE if all citizens indicate that they have no amendments for the bill in question. Any amendment shall be published in the same thread as the original bill, and be denoted by the word AMENDMENT: at the beginning of the subject line.
3.2  Seven days after publication of the draft, the Túischac'h calls for a vote on the amendments in a new thread denoted by the words AMENDMENTS VOTE: at the beginning of the subject line, and last for seven days. At the end of the seven days, if for each amendment more për than contrâ votes have been recorded, it shall be passed. Otherwise, the amendment shall not be passed.

4. Once all of the amendments have been settled and applied, the Túischac'h calls for a vote on the final version of the bill, which lasts for 7 days. A final call for a vote shall be published in a new thread denoted by the words FINAL VOTE:. at the beginning of the subject line. At the end of the seven days, if more për than contrâ votes have been recorded in the case of a regular Bill or Resolution, or at least twice as many per as contra votes in the case of an amendment to this Constitution, the bill or resolution shall be passed. Otherwise, the bill or resolution shall not be passed.

5.  In any voting phase, all the votes of the citizens shall be open and public. A citizen may change his or her vote at any time up until the final voting deadline.

6. Votes of Confidence, as provided in Fiôvâ Const. § 10.2 or Fiôvâ Const. § 10.3, shall proceed in the same way as resolutions, except that there shall be no amendment phase, and shall proceed directly to a final vote (as in section 4 above) as soon as a citizen officially submits a request, in a thread denoted by the word VOC: at the beginning of the subject line, to the General Assembly. Votes of confidence shall end as soon as all citizens have cast their vote or seven days have passed, whichever comes first. Votes of confidence may contain no provisions not directly related to confidence in the official in question.

7. Elections of the Túischac'h and Secretary of State, as provided in Fiôvâ Const. § 3.1 or Fiôvâ Const. § 9.1, shall proceed in the same way as ordinary resolutions, except that there shall be no amendment phase, and proceed directly to a final vote (as in section 4 above) as soon as a citizen officially submit a candidature, in a thread denoted by the word CANDIDATURE: at the beginning of the subject line, to the General Assembly.

8. Confirmations of judicial nominations, as provided in Fiôvâ Const. § 8.1, shall proceed in the same way as ordinary resolutions, except that there shall be no amendment phase, and proceed directly to a final vote (as in section 4 above) as soon as the Cunstavál's decree of nomination, in a thread denoted by the word NOMINATION: at the beginning of the subject line, it is published. Voting on Confirmations shall end as soon as all citizens have cast their vote or seven days have passed, whichever comes first.

9. Once a bill has been passed, the Túischac'h shall submit it to the Cunstavál for promulgation as law, in accordance with Fiôvâ Const. § 7.2. A resolution does not need to be presented to the Cunstavál.

10. Any citizen may propose a question for formal answer to the Praisidïeu or to any other Minister. Such a question shall be denoted by the word QUESTION: at the beginning of the subject line. If the member of the Government so addressed is a citizen, they shall reply personally within seven days; if not, then the Praisidïeu shall transmit a reply on their behalf.

11. The Túischac'h, or one of his deputies, is responsible for enforcing these Standing Orders, and for keeping a civil and appropriate tone of debate in the General Assembly.

12. All citizens shall address their statements in the General Assembly to the Túischac'h.

Per

Honestly, I think the two absolutely huge achievements in the era of FreeDems leadership of the Government which have nothing to do with constitutional reforms are:

- upgrading Wittenberg and talossa.com;
- finally achieving "linguistic Reunision" with the Talossan 4.0 spelling reforms.

It's difficult to explain to non-Ladintschen the bitterness caused by the CÚG's Republican-excluding spelling reforms of 2007, but that's all over now. It was good to get Lord Hooligan's approval for the renewed Översteir which uses the new compromise spelling.

Quote from: Glüc da Dhi S.H. on June 04, 2021, 02:59:02 PM
the KLüP nominates Miestră Schivă, UrN

Hútsch-tú tréi mült, I decline. :D

Hello,

I recently wrote a fairy tale and I am wondering: would you be interested in translating it to Talossan and publishing it? I attach its English text to this letter.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Best wishes,
Evgeny Khvalkov

===

Alrond and the magic fox

Have you heard the story of Alrond and the magic fox? I can tell it you.
After all, magic foxes still live in some places in the world to this day. It is almost impossible to catch them because they are very strong in magic. And sometimes, when such a fox runs through the forest and touches the branches and bushes with his tail, sparks fly from the tail to the sky and fall back to the ground; people call these sparks shooting stars. However, sometimes magic foxes appear among the people. This is what our story will be about.
Once upon a time, an old knight lived at Cape Bertoari, and he had three sons. When the old man died, the eldest son inherited the castle and all the land, according to custom, the middle son inherited the parish in the village and the post of a priest, and the youngest, Alrond, only got his father's sword and an old horse. The elder brother gave Alrond a loaf of bread and a ham for the journey and told him to go away to seek his fortune somewhere else.
Alrond got ready for the trip and thought about going to Adtiarn to the court of King Taravon. He, people say, pays the brave and clever nobles handsomely. And Alrond went to the city of Adtiarn.
Some time passed, Alrond grew tired and hungry and sat down to eat at the edge of the forest. Lo and behold, a fox's face poked out from behind a bush of viburnum. The fox looks at Alrond, and Alrond looks at the fox. And the fox said to him:
"Good afternoon, young man! Nice ham you've got there. Would you share a piece?"
And though Alrond had no other food left but that bread and ham, he was a good fellow, so he gave the fox a piece of ham and told him how his brothers had treated him and that he was going to Adtiarn to the court of King Taravon.
- Look, - said the fox, - maybe I should go with you to try my luck too? You are a good fellow, I see, but you are very simple-minded, and I am well versed in all sorts of tricks, and perhaps I can also serve you. And when we get to Adtiarn, you'll join King Taravon's guard, and I'll be an interpreter for Chancellor Berengar. I know all sorts of languages: Garegin, Adelnian, and even the language of the Igerulds.
"Well," said Alrond, "it's more fun on the way together. Come with me!"
And they went to the city of Adtiarn. Then they came, and King Taravon took our Alrond as his personal guard, for the captain of the guards was an old friend of the young man's late father, and Alrond took after his father in face, courage, and intelligence. And the fox settled down at the chancery and surprised everyone with his knowledge of languages: the scribes, the councilors, the chancellor, and the king himself were surprised and amazed by the fox's wisdom.
The king had a marriageable daughter. As soon as she saw Alrond, she fell madly in love with him; the young man was also not indifferent to the princess. But it was a custom in the kingdom that not only could the princess choose the man to whom her heart lay at her discretion, but even the father-king himself could not, as is the case in almost all kingdoms, woo the daughter according to his own opinion. There had to be a great contest, and whoever came out victorious in it must also receive the princess's hand. And since the princess was a marriageable lady, and the only daughter of King Taravon, and the king himself was already in his old age, the chancellor and the councilors began to bother him so that he would soon arrange a contest and marry the princess.
"We want," they say, "to have a suitable successor to you – a glorious, valiant, intelligent, and in every way worthy prince or a knight; we do not need any other kind of king!"
The king had to give in and arrange a contest. Alrond came back home from the service sad, and the fox asks him:
- Why are you so sad, my friend? Why are you hanging your nose?
- How but to hang my nose! – answers Alrond. The king has declared a contest, and whoever wins it will receive the princess's hand, and my beloved will go to the foreign prince or knight.
- Why don't you take part in the competition? - said the fox. Although your father was a poor knight, and you are even poorer, but your family is noble and your pedigree is not inferior to the kings. Moreover, you are a man of strength and ingenuity!
- True, said Alrond, - but I feel that the tests there will not be the usual ones: not to fight with spears, shoot with a bow and fight with a sword.
- But you have me! I'll help you through the royal trials," said the fox.
Alrond thought about it and agreed. And the fox waved his tail, and golden sparks fell on the young man – and although Alrond had been handsome before and such a daredevil as there were few, now he shone with a magical light, and he had the strength of thirty strong men.
When the time came for the contest, kings, princes, dukes, counts, barons, and knights from all over the West Coast, and some even from the islands of the Archipelago, came to Adtiarn. The first three days were spent in tournaments, hunting, and feasting, and Alrond was ahead of the others in all things: in spear-fighting, sword-fighting, archery, cross-bow-shooting, and dancing, and he was behaving so courteously – as a true suitor for a princess! But the royal trials were more difficult than the court dances.
It was time for the first test. And the king said:
"The Duke Larhelm of Moremont gave me last year some wonderful seeds that produce a harvest of five hundred, and bread made from that wheat has such wonderful properties that one small piece is enough to feed an adult man. My peasants sowed this miracle grain in the fields, and indeed, the harvest was unprecedented. However, there is a misfortune: someone comes at night and eats wheat. And when I send the guards to catch an unknown thief, they all fall asleep. Which of you, glorious knights, will protect my fields with wonderful wheat, and at the same time, catch the mysterious robber and bring him to me?
All the kings, princes, dukes, earls, barons, and knights were perplexed, and so was Alrond. He came home and told the fox about the royal mission. And the fox said:
"I know who steals the wheat – it's the proboscis monster. Listen to me, get a good night's sleep, and let's go watch the thief at night. Just don't forget to plug your ears".
So they did. And when at night all the kings, princes, dukes, counts, barons, and knights went out to guard the field, the proboscis monster came up to it and sounded in his trunk – then everybody fell asleep. Alrond covered his ears, as the fox had told him, and did not fall asleep. As soon as the thief began to graze on the royal fields, Alrond and the fox began catching the proboscis monster. For a long time, they could not cope with it until the fox jumped on the monster and threw a rope on it.
In the morning, Alrond brought the proboscis monster to the king. The king was surprised and praised and thanked Alrond. The foreign kings, princes, dukes, counts, barons and knights, became envious: they slept all night while Alrond and the fox caught the monster! And they plotted against Alrond, but they did not show it.
It was time for the second test. And the king said:
"Last year King Aethelstan of Damyria gave me a flock of golden-fleeced sheep. Now it's time to cut them. Their wool is pure gold, but I must say that these sheep are very skittish, and so far no one has managed to shear them. Which of you, glorious knights, can shear the sheep and gather the golden wool and bring it to me?
All the kings, princes, dukes, earls, barons, and knights were perplexed, and so was Alrond. He came home and told the fox about the royal mission. And the fox said:
"That is not difficult, my friend Alrond. Listen to me, get a good night's sleep, and tomorrow we'll go and cut the golden-fleeced sheep.
In the morning, the pretenders to the princess's hand began to catch golden-fleeced sheep, but the sheep were very quick and skittish, and no one managed to shear a piece of golden wool from them. It was Alrond's turn at last. Then the fox, his faithful friend, sat down on a hillock where the sheep were grazing, took out his flute, and began to play. Oh, if you could only imagine what kind of music it was! All the sheep had gathered around the fox and listened to the magic music as if they were enchanted, and now it was easy for Alrond to shear them.
And not only were the sheep enchanted! The clear sound of that music enchanted the king, the courtiers, the retinue, and everybody who were there; they all fell silent and listened as if in a daze. Wild forest animals came out of their holes and dens to listen to the wonderful music of the fox. The lion, the king of all beasts, dared not growl lest he should interrupt the wondrous music, the wolf forgot his howl, and the aurochs forgot his roar. Even old Greta, who lives at the Break-in-the-Moat and is famous for the worst character (she can't be with the others for a minute without scolding), so even old Greta herself came out and listened to the music. The melody that the fox produced from his flute turned everything into a temple of music.
The King was thrilled that Alrond had completed the second task and doubly thrilled that he had heard such magical music. He sincerely thanked Alrond and the fox, and the foreign kings, princes, dukes, counts, barons, and knights almost burst with envy and anger. And one of them, King Gerneb of Lothirod, said:
"If this knight passes the third test, he will have the princess, and we will leave unrewarded and even disgraced, and some poor soldier will be higher than us, crowned heads! We'll ambush him tomorrow morning before the third trial and kill him, and thus we won't have to suffer dishonor".
They all decided to do so. But they did not know that the fox was standing behind the curtain at that time and heard everything. He came home and told Alrond about the insidious plans of the foreigners.
"What should I do then?" - said the young man.
"Trust me," the fox replied, "but just remember that we have both to defeat our enemies tomorrow and to pass the last test!"
It was time for the third and final test. And the king said:
"I want my future son-in-law to treat me to a sumptuous dinner in his own castle, and this reception has to be royal! I will not give up my daughter for a beggar".
Foreign kings, princes, dukes, counts, barons, and knights were alarmed. Of course, they had magnificent palaces and castles in their region – but you can't take a king there in one day, nor can you bring these palaces and castles to Adtiarn, no matter how hard you work! However, the four richest kings hired a hundred masons each and ordered them to build castles near the capital at once – but you can't build a castle in a day! Alrond looked sad, too, but the fox nudged him and said:
"I'll go and get you a castle for the king's party, and when you go hunting now, keep away from the foreigners!"
And the fox ran in the direction of Cromorgan Castle. And I must say that this castle was owned by a terrible troll, evil-despicable, cruel-former. Many travellers who passed by Cromorgan Castle ended up in the teeth of that ugly ogre. But the troll ate humans and not foxes, so our dodger had nothing to fear; besides, the troll was not at home at that time – he had gone out to hunt. First of all, the fox decided to get rid of the troll's servants who guarded the castle; those were gnoll Graw, goblin Grow and gremlin Grahaham. He ran to the gate and shouted:
- Alarm! Escape! Here comes the king with his army and brings with him a hundred wizards: they will incinerate you all with lightning!
The troll's servants were alarmed. What should they do? And the fox told them:
- Hide quickly; maybe the king and his army and wizards will not notice you!
The troll's servants were cowardly, so they left their guard posts without a moment's delay. The gnoll Graw hid in a beer jar, the goblin Grow hid in a wine barrel, and the gremlin Grahaham hid in a calvados barrel (the troll was very fond of calvados). Then our fox closed them all, rolled them out on the fortress wall and threw them into the moat – let them swim there!
Meanwhile, the evil troll, the master of the house, returned and was quite surprised that his servants had disappeared and that a strange fox had appeared out of nowhere in his own castle. But our fox was an extremely courteous gentleman, so he had no difficulty in charming the troll. Knowing that the troll is very fond of flattery, the fox began to describe in every possible way the merits of the troll and the fame that goes about him in all the surrounding kingdoms.
And I must say that this troll had two heads, and they often quarreled with each other. And here's what the fox came up with – he repeatedly gave more and more colorful compliments to one or the other head, until finally, they quarreled so much that they locked in a deadly battle. Then the fox crept softly to where the troll had his sharp, curved sabers, like those which camelmen use in the desert for a fight, and with a deft blow cut off both of the evil troll's quarrelsome heads. And since then, no one has ever captured or killed travelers in those parts!
Meanwhile, King Taravon hunted with his courtiers, retinue, and foreign kings, princes, dukes, earls, barons, and knights, who, as you will remember, plotted to kill Alrond. In pursuit of the deer, Alrond broke away from the entire retinue and was left alone, and then the foreigners began chasing him. Their swords were drawn, their crossbows loaded, and that would have been the end of the young man if he hadn't had his fox!
And the fox, after taking possession of the magnificent castle of the villain-troll and order to prepare a real royal treat there, hurried to the forest where the hunt was going on. At that time, there was a very old, dilapidated bridge in this forest. So, when the enemies were persecuting Alrond and were shooting at him with crossbows, the fox (and he was a magic fox after!) briefly transformed his friend into a fox shape and hid him in a hole, and the fox himself turned into a young man, just like Alrond, you wouldn't even discern between them! The foreign kings, princes, dukes, earls, barons, and knights rushed after him, and the fox in the guise of Alrond leapt from his horse and ran across the old bridge to the other side. The foreigners, thinking that their victim was in their hands, rushed after him to the dilapidated bridge, and the bridge collapsed, so they all perished.
Meanwhile, the king was hungry and was waiting for dinner. The fox restored Alrond to his human form and himself to his fox form, and they returned to the king.
"Your Majesty," the fox said courteously, "Sir Alrond has the honor to invite you to dine at his castle.
The king was surprised. "How come, Alrond? Your father's castle is ten days' ride from here, and it belongs to your elder brother by right of the entail."
"I assure you, Your Majesty," the fox hastened to say, "that Sir Alrond has a castle, and a most magnificent one".
And the fox led Alrond, the king, and the entire king's retinue to the castle of Cromorgan, which had once belonged to the evil troll, and now it belonged to the fox's friend, the knight Alrond. When they reached the castle, the king was overjoyed, for Cromorgan Castle was as good as a royal palace, and the reception that the fox and Alrond provided for the king and his retinue there was truly royal. The king was quite charmed, and at the same dinner, announced the betrothal of Alrond and the Princess, and appointed Alrond as heir to the throne.
What about the magic fox? And the fox, when the wedding was over, took his leave and ran off into the forest; after all, he was still a wild animal, although later he sometimes came to visit his friend.
That's it, my friends! Alrond did not spare the last thing he had for the fox, and in the end, he became king.

I'm happy to accept Antaglha's amendments in principle - I'll try to streamline the language a bit for the First (real) Clark, unless anyone else has suggestions

Pursuant to the Constitution of Fiova 3.1 and Standing Orders 7, I officially nominate @GV as Provincial Túischac'h (Chair of the General Assembly, in charge of carrying out the Standing Orders).

All citizens have 7 days to vote PER, CONTRA or AUSTANÉU on this.

Some more pictures

Estimated results with different-sized Cosas

41 seats: LCC 5, FreeDems 17, NPW 2, TNC 4, Balancéu 7, Dien 3, KLüP 2, Tafial 1
21 seats: LCC 2, FreeDems 9, NPW 1, TNC 2, Balancéu 4, Dien 1, KLüP 1, Tafial 1
15 seats: LCC 2, FreeDems 6, NPW 1, TNC 1, Balancéu 3, Dien 1, KLüP 1

15 seats would therefore be the point at which 2 votes wouldn't get you a Cosa seat. Something to think about for those inclined to Cosa-size reforms.

I am sad to announce that @Adam Grigoriu has expressed his wish to resign as Interior Minister, having found that his heart really isn't in politics. I am happy to announce that cxhn. Grigoriu has expressed the wish to resume his former role as Permanent Secretary for Immigration.

To whit, under El Lexhátx C.1.1, as Seneschál and acting Minister of the Interior, I recommend to the King that @Adam Grigoriu be appointed to the role of Permanent Secretary for Immigration, with a job description as follows:

QuoteProcessing requests for immigration to Talossa, which includes:

    Sending form emails to immigrants
    Posting applications and approving new Wittenberg accounts
    Terminating applications and disabling accounts
    Updating the database of immigrants and new citizens
    Other duties as directed by the Minister of the Interior