Quote from: Dr. Pôl dal Nordselvă on June 23, 2025, 05:47:21 AMI can perhaps understand the ability of the Cosa to override but do we need to strip them of power in order to accomplish the same purpose?

Tell me another way that we could give the Cosa final say over legislation

Something I find interesting is that there is less of an Organic barrier to depowering the Senäts than there is to simply changing its provincially based nature!

I beg the Túischac'h's permission to make two corrections for the historical record.

I categorized the Member's criticisms as unkind, not "unjust". I stand by that categorization.

The mention of "two weeks" was not intended as a challenge to the Member. It was a reference to the habit of the President of the United States to promise to fix any problem within "two weeks", and then not do anything, because the purpose of the promise was just to focus rage against his opponent.

Grült méirçi.

I am pushing forward at least with the removal of the compulsory essay question. Especially given recent research indicating that students who write their essays this way remember virtually nothing of what was "written" in their name, ChatGPT just makes stuff up. The purpose of the immigration essay was to ensure that the prospective was making an effort to learn about Talossa. Currently, it seems to do the opposite.

If prospectives want to let Spicy Autocorrect write essays full of hallucinations for then, fine, they can do it on Wittenberg once their applications go through, but "gatekeeping" via essay is now useless.

Estimat Túischac'h: I gather from this second supplementary question that the Member would consider resignations to be an appropriate response from the Government to the lack of prospectives progressing to citizenship. My government takes all citizen feedback seriously.

Accordingly, I have offered my resignation as Immigration Minister to the Cabinet, if they lacked confidence in my current policy and administrative settings.

This offer was rejected unanimously.

Consequently, I have approached His Majesty the King and offered my resignation as Seneschal, if he considered that my current policy and administrative setting around Immigration were lacking.

This offer was also rejected.

The King of Talossa communicated to me that he has full confidence in his Government's current stance towards immigration. He agrees with the Government's action that the current disappointing immigration figures are due to toxicity and destructiveness in Talossan culture, rather than to Government action or inaction.

I am sure that this strong vote of confidence will be persuasive for the Member, who is known to be the strongest soldier for the Monarchy's role in Talossan life.

On a less happy note, the tone of this supplementary question is not up to the Member's usual standards of probity. "All hands on deck" is not a serious policy demand, but a request for the "theater of urgency". "Coherent plan" is possible only when the causes of the problem have been solidly identified. The Member knows that doing stuff for the sake of doing it is not the Government's style.

The Member has no program for turning more prospectives into citizens. The charitable explanation is that he just wants the "theater of urgency" as an indicator that we share his distress. A cynical explanation is that demands to "do something" in vague terms are an effective electoral slogan, even if the successive government would not have a plan to "do anything" either. Except put all of its hands on the deck, perhaps.

We continue to work to reduce toxicity and destructiveness in Talossan life (a minor part of which is an effort to reply to unkind criticism with a civil tongue in our heads). We discuss ways to market Talossa effectively to attract people who want to be active citizens, not just fill in a form and then do nothing. We discuss how to integrate new prospectives and new citizens in Talossan life through getting them involved in Talossan discourse and activity.

With some of this, we fail to get results. We screw up. We drop balls due to lack of staffing. But the consensus of the King and his Government is that this is the best way forward, and if the Member has a secret plan up his sleeve to, I don't know, get a whole bunch of citizens in "two weeks"? I look forward to seeing it, at the next election.

Estimat Túischac'h, since this is a formal Terpelaziun thread, I would remind the Member to address their supplementary questions through the Chair.

Notwithstanding that - I am glad that the Member recognizes that the problem here is not getting applicants onto Wittenberg. Given that, I repeat my skepticism that the problem here is policy. Nothing has effectively changed in that regard. In fact, the Government has at least attempted to formalise greeting new citizens, though - as has been mentioned elsewhere - we're having a "warm body problem" in that regard. But whether we greet new citizens or not on the Immigration board doesn't seem to make a heap of difference.

I repeat that I see the problem with keeping people around as being with you might call the "vibe" of Talossa. I think we must avoid the temptation to post hoc ergo proper hoc reasoning. I would like to locate the vibe shift in the unpleasantness which followed the 59th Cosa election (a lot of which the Member was absent for). But the sufficiently creative could argue a coincidence with the accession of King Txec, which I hope we would agree would be mischievous.

It could even be that the problem is a civil society problem. I hate to say it, but political parties have previously done a great job integrating and encouraging new citizens - even if those were generally parties I opposed, who successfully recruited out of that.

The too-long-didn't-read of it, Estimat Túischac'h, is that the Government is not sure why immigration has dried up. But we agree it is a problem, we seek solutions, and we resent any implication that we are apathetic or even antipathetic to it.

Estimat Túischac'h, I noted in my response to Baron Davinescù that the last successful petition for citizenship was on March 13th of this year. That was @Iac Éovard Valadeir , who was named Deputy Minister of Immigration, and has unfortunately had trouble performing this task.

I might add as an addendum to my response to the Baron, that perhaps a factor in the downturn on immigration is that newcomers to Talossa, offered a responsible role, are dooged by harshly-expressed official questions in our legislature from the... well, let's have some decorum of this. Least popular person in Talossa.

Allowing newbies to try to do honest work for Talossa - even if they don't perform according to expectations - is one of the main ways my Government tries to integrate new citizens. This, we feel, is just as important as getting people in the door. Citizens who don't do anything except eventually "strike out" look good on someone's spread-sheet, but they're not what we're looking for.

S:reu Valadeir has not been relieved of his post and has been given the choice of where he goes from here.

I thank the Member for his question. Under law, responsibility for recruitment to Talossa is a joint activity of the Immigration and STUFF portfolios, and the matter has been recently discussed by myself and the new Minister of STUFF, who - as I'm sure the member is aware - just took office a couple of weeks ago.

The Member is invited to look at the large number of immigration applications that have been submitted and posted during this Government's most recent term in office. The question will be: why did none of these applications - since March 13 of this year - become citizens? None of these applications was "thrown in the trash" because they didn't tick a box on the Immigration form, or because they offended the Immigration minister. Most of these applications were interacted with by citizens. Some were even proposed for citizenship - but, sadly, never returned their oath.

This Government is very interested in the reason for that. But one thing we're sure of - despite irresponsible speculations from some, it's not because of a problem in the immigration pipeline. That pipeline is flowing admirably - even with the very minimal quality control currently being applied. The Member will be aware that any applications that were questioned have been reported in a private forum, and the number is a tiny percentage of those who have been presented to the nation.

The Government is following several lines of thought. Publicity is the obvious one. As is well known, the Foreign Ministry is working closely with the King to open lines of diplomacy with other Talossa-like entities, and to get publicity for Talossa more broadly. It is my guess that "cross-citizenship" with existing citizens of other Talossa-like entities may be a way to get good quality citizens. This is one of the reasons I was very keen on establishing the Landing Pier; the more that people who are already familiar with the conventions of micronationalism see how we do things, the more they might think we're doing it right. Conversely, one of the reasons I was "down" on the "chatbot for Cabinet" proposal was precisely that that would have not attracted the right kind of attention.

But honestly, my gut feeling is that Talossa is right now unattractive to newcomers. Simply put, people are not going to immigrate a community that's boring, annoying, full of petty feuds, creepery, etc. Something that I find increasingly amazing is people who think that all we need to do to get new citizens is to loudly announce to everyone that Talossa exists, rather than questioning how we can make Talossa more attractive to newbies. Could it be that these people who make immigration applications take one look at what we do here and are not impressed?

I believe that a previous government attempted to take out paid advertising for Talossa, and it came to nothing. I am convinced that you can't create a marketing campaign for a pile of garbage. The immigration rate - understood as how many new people join up - is a function of how attractive Talossa is, not how easy it is to click on an internet form; and the current level of quality control, turned all the way down in response to Opposition complaints, would indicate that.

A final note is that the Government is still looking for someone to function as an "immigration greeter", since the previous incumbent found it too hard. Still, plenty of people have been greeting new prospectives, with very little success.

ATTENTION ALL FREE DEMOCRATS: here is the *draft* constitution for a merged party that I have worked out with Parti da Reformaziun leadership. I am publishing it here for completely open public comment (from party members, people from outside the party can publish their responses elsewhere).

Let's have a good read of this so we can get finicky details out of the way ASAP. That way, we can have a final draft ready for July 15 and the merger conference, so we and the PdR can vote on the same document. Again, Mic'haglh pretty much drafted this as a mash-up of the existing party constitutions.

===

Constituziun dal Uniun Reformistà Livereschti

The Uniun Reformistà Livereschti (Free Reformists' Union), a political party in the Kingdom of Talossa, adopts this Constituziun as the basis for our Party's internal governance.

ARTICLE I. MEMBERSHIP
A. Membership in the URL shall be open to all Talossan citizens in good standing who are not already members of another political party, who agree to abide by this Constituziun and Party policy, and who endorse the Party's platform. However, the right of any Party member in good standing to seek changes to this Constitution or other Party policy in accordance with this Constitution shall never be infringed.
B. Application to the Presedint or Secretar shall be considered sufficient application for Party membership.
C. Prospective members shall provide contact information as reasonably requested by the Presedint or Secretar in order to ensure they may be reached. This information shall be kept secure and confidential, and is only to be used by Party leadership for official Party business.
D. The Secretar shall be entitled, no more than once a year, to conduct a Census of all Party members to ensure they wish to maintain Party membership and to confirm their contact information is up to date. A Party member who does not reply to this Census within 30 days shall be deemed to have offered their resignation, which shall be accepted at the discretion of the Secretar.
E. A three-fifths vote of Party membership, held on a secret ballot, may pass a motion to censure another member, temporarily revoking their good standing with the Party. This may be proposed due to violations of this Constituziun, publicly voting for or joining another nationally-registered party, or bringing the Party into disrepute in some specified manner. The member in question shall not be permitted to cast a vote on such a motion.

• A successful vote to censure, the justification for it, and the provisions for lifting said censure shall be communicated to the censured member as soon as possible and through all possible means of communication. A censured member's rights under this Constituziun shall cease to apply during their censure, including the right to participate in Party discussion forums.
• This censure expires at the conclusion of the next Party Convention, but may also be repealed prematurely by simple majority. Censure may also be extended at one Convention to the next by majority of a secret-ballot vote.

F. A two-thirds vote of Party membership, held on a secret ballot, may pass a motion to expel members from the Party for violations of Organic Law or other Talossan statute law, as well as gross violations of general standards of decorum. The member in question shall not be permitted to cast a vote on such a motion.

• In the event of a Party member's loss of citizenship, this vote may be omitted and their membership immediately revoked.
• Any member expelled from the Party shall be permitted to rejoin after two General Elections.

ARTICLE II. LEADERSHIP
A. The Party shall elect from its membership the Comità Esecutorxheu (Executive Committee), to serve as the Party's governing body.

• The Comità shall consist of three members chosen by the Party membership at-large by Single Transferable Vote, as well as any Fosteglhen Provinciais.
• From among themselves. members of the Comità will elect a Presedint by Instant-Runoff (a.k.a. Ranked-Choice) Vote. The Presedint serves as the Party's national leader and presiding officer, the presiding officer of the Comità, and is responsible for distribution of Cosӑ seats.
• Also from among themselves, the members of the Comità will elect a Secretar, who will be responsible for conducting elections internal to the party, preparing important party documents for publishing, and providing the parliamentary party with any assistance it might need. The Secretar shall serve as Acting Presedint in the event the Presedint communicates a temporary leave of absence; should the office of Presedint be vacant, the Secretar shall become Presedint.
• No member shall be entitled to hold both offices of Presedint and Secretar except on an acting basis.
• Should the office of Secretar fall vacant between Conventions, the Presedint shall be entitled to appoint a Secretar from among the members of the Comità.
• For any Province with three or more Party members assigned thereto, the members from that Province shall be entitled to elect a Fosteglhӑ Provincial (Provincial Chair) by Instant-Runoff Vote.
• Fosteglhen Provinciais are responsible for the distribution of seats within their provincial legislature, taking into account advice from Party members in said province. If there is no Fosteglhӑ Provincial, or they do not complete this duty in time, the Party President shall do so in their stead.
• The list of candidates for a Cosӑ election shall be determined by the Comità, and upon the request of any Party member, shall be ratified by a secret-ballot vote of all members in good standing, carried out by the Secretar.
• The Presedint and Secretar may be removed from their office by a two-thirds vote of the Comità, ratified by a majority of Party membership.

B. Members of the Comità Esecutorxheu (including Fosteglhen Provinciais), the Presedint, and the Secretar shall be elected at each Convention, regular or Extraordinary. The term of office of all incumbents ends with the election of their successor.
C. Fourteen days' notice should be given prior to leadership elections being held on the forum used for conducting Party business, and the floor shall be considered open to nominations when this notice is given.
D. There is no limit on the number of terms one may serve in any position.

ARTICLE III. BUSINESS
A. The Party shall hold a yearly Convention, to take place at membership's earliest convenience in the period from December to March, inclusive. At the petition of two-thirds of Party members, or a majority of the Comità Esecutorxheu, an Extraordinary Convention may be called outside this period, though no more than one Extraordinary Convention may be called between the regularly-scheduled Convention.
B. In addition to elections to Party leadership positions, each Convention shall also be open to amendments to this Constituziun as well as any other Party policy.
C. All motions must receive a second before proceeding to debate. All motions shall be subject to a debate period of forty-eight hours, following which voting shall run for seventy-two hours.
D. Amendments to this Constituziun shall pass by a two-thirds majority; all other changes to Party policies shall pass by simple majority.
E. Only members in good standing (i.e. those not currently censured) are permitted to vote on any motion or in an election for any position within the Party.
F. Party members are free to organize themselves into caucuses within the Party. Caucuses shall annually provide to the Secretar a point of contact, a statement of the caucus' purpose, and an organizing document. The Secretar shall keep a list of all registered caucuses.
G. For the purposes of this section, the "Caucus" comprises all Senators and MCs who are members of the Party.

• If the Presedint considers a certain Bill on the Clark to be especially important for the enactment of the Party's policy and principles, they may declare this bill to be subject to a "whipped vote", indicating that all members of the Caucus are expected to vote in accordance with the Presedint's recommendation or otherwise abstain. The opposite of a whipped vote is a "free vote".
• A declaration of a whipped vote, and any bill on which there is a whipped vote, shall specify precisely which plank of the party's policy or principle is involved.
• A declaration of a whipped vote may be overridden by a simple majority of the Caucus members.
• All Votes of Confidence shall be considered to be whipped unless the Presedint or a majority of the Caucus specifically state otherwise.
• A member of the Caucus who votes contrary to a declaration of a whipped vote ("defies the whip") on two separate occasions within a single Cosӑ term may be subject to censure by declaration of the Presedint.
• H. Candidates for Senäts elections shall be chosen by a vote of all members residing in the Province in question, and the successful candidate announced by the Fosteglhӑ Provincial. With the consent of the  Comità, the Folsteglhӑ may choose to allow non-Party members residing in the Province in question to participate in such a vote. In the case of a contested nomination, an Instant-Runoff Vote shall be carried out by secret ballot. If there is no Fosteglhӑ Provincial, the Presedint shall perform this function.

I. In cases of emergency such as by-elections, resignations or impending deadlines, such that no time is left to conduct a vote as above, the Presedint may amend the Cosӑ list, and a Fosteglhӑ Provincial may nominate a Senäts candidate.

The leaderships of the Free Democrats of Talossa and the Parti da Reformaziun are pleased to announce that the parties will held simultaneous Emergency Party Conventions to discuss proposals for immediate merger, to begin on July 15th this year.

Should these proposals pass, then the two conventions will combine to form the founding convention of a new party to unite liberal, reformist, and republican opinion in Talossa.

Estimat Túischac'h, on behalf of the Defence Minister, there are no updates on this event.

The logical outcome of this is just an automatic script which reposts every single immigration application on Wittenberg.

I believe applications for the role of US Ambassador to Talossa and Official Scolding Target are now open!

The Túischac'h is telling the truth. The Government neither asked for any limit on the number of Terpelaziuns, nor necessarily agrees that one is appropriate. The Túischac'h's thoughts on how Terpelaziuns should operate are entirely his own. Although I do like the idea that the actual Leader of the Opposition, elected to that position by the voters, should have precedence over those who are only in the Cosa because it is physically impossible to unelect them. And I really appreciate having a Tuischac'h who is active in and reflective about his role in preserving order and administering Terp-time.

But I must jump into defend him when he is being politically monstered, in a way which is all too familiar to Talossans, by a tamberlan who thinks that yelling POLITICAL BIAS is a free pass for abuse and wild conspiracy accusations. This is yet another reason why we need to give not only the Chairs of the Ziu, but all Wittenberg moderators, real power to smack down all those who act like verpăs, forăs da ciol, or plain and simple raplamandeirs.

Can I suggest urgency on this? Brenéir is at it again in the Cosa, attempting to destroy the Túischac'h for attempting to moderate him. Once again, accusations of political bias are all that bad actors need, under the current situation, to make themselves unmanageable.

I'll write up a law to give Witt moderation teeth - and maybe we need one to give the Túischac'h and Mençéi powers to impose order? Or is that an OrgLaw amendment?