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#1
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC - Today at 05:06:24 PMQuote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on Today at 11:08:17 AMI do think that you're going to probably have to leave party leaders in control of submitting a list, subject to their internal processes
In my country - and I believe others with closed lists - there is a law saying that a party's internal processes for creating lists have to be democratic and that party members have standing to sue if their leadership is drawing up lists arbitrarily. I would support that in Talossa.
#2
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC - Today at 05:02:52 PMQuote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Today at 09:58:39 AMThe amount of copy-pasted invalid votes cast last election is genuinely concerning.
I'm less worried by the fact that there were a whole bunch of amount of copy-pasted invalid votes cast last election, than that most of those votes were for one particular party, the leader of which is doing his best to argue against reforms of that system. Those with very long memories might remember critics of a system where "I vote for whoever Ben says" was a valid vote, and King Robert I yelling at them as wanting to disenfranchise less-active or less-informed citizens. Or where the RUMP fought against the secret ballot for a very long time, and they were right (from a partisan viewpoint) to do so, because they lost their permanent absolute majority in the very first secret election.
I don't believe that AD is only raising quibbles about reforms to defend his partisan advantage out of a system where people vote for a "blank cheque" for a logo. But if the Point is: "The current system makes the Cosa unaccountable to voters" and the Counterpoint is: "yeah, but it benefits my party", I beg the Baron to realize how his opponents might react to that.
#3
El Funal/The Hopper / The Importance of Consent Act
Last post by Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be - Today at 04:29:56 PMWHEREAS, the inclusion of any citizen on a political party's electoral list is currently and entirely up to that party's leadership; and
WHEREAS, it seems reasonable to ensure that the person involved should have some sort of say in their inclusion; then
BE IT RESOLVED BY THE ZIU that Title B of El Lexhatx, Section 2.3.2 is created to read as follows:
Uréu q'estadra så:
Mic'haglh Autófil (MC - URL)
WHEREAS, it seems reasonable to ensure that the person involved should have some sort of say in their inclusion; then
BE IT RESOLVED BY THE ZIU that Title B of El Lexhatx, Section 2.3.2 is created to read as follows:
Quote2.3.2. The Secretary of State shall confirm to their satisfaction that all citizens appearing on a party list consent to do so. Only citizens so consenting shall be recognized as being on a party's list for the purposes of Lexh.B.2.3, and only said citizens will appear on the party's list as shown on the ballot.
Uréu q'estadra så:
Mic'haglh Autófil (MC - URL)
#4
El Funal/The Hopper / The Caretaker Clarification Ac...
Last post by Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be - Today at 04:26:34 PMWHEREAS, Cabinet ministers may currently appoint Permanent Secretaries at any time, including in a "lame duck" or "caretaker" period following the close of an election; and
WHEREAS, this could conceivably permit an outgoing Government to staff ministries with Permanent Secretaries in contradictory ways to the desires of an incoming Government; and
WHEREAS, this seems an obviously unfair move that ought to be prohibited; then
BE IT RESOLVED BY THE ZIU that Title C of El Lexhatx, Section 1.1.1, which currently reads as follows:
Shall be altered to read:
Uréu q'estadra så:
Mic'haglh Autófil (MC - URL)
WHEREAS, this could conceivably permit an outgoing Government to staff ministries with Permanent Secretaries in contradictory ways to the desires of an incoming Government; and
WHEREAS, this seems an obviously unfair move that ought to be prohibited; then
BE IT RESOLVED BY THE ZIU that Title C of El Lexhatx, Section 1.1.1, which currently reads as follows:
Quote1.1.1. A Minister of the Cabinet may recommend to the King the creation of an Office within their Ministry and the appointment of a Permanent Secretary to that office based upon their qualifications, willingness to work and taking into consideration the applicant's performance in prior positions. All Permanent Secretary positions shall exist within the Royal Civil Service and shall be non-political appointments which shall be held until lawful dismissal, resignation or incapacitation.
Shall be altered to read:
Quote1.1.1. A Minister of the Cabinet may recommend to the King the creation of an Office within their Ministry and the appointment of a Permanent Secretary to that office based upon their qualifications, willingness to work and taking into consideration the applicant's performance in prior positions. No recommendations or appointments to a Permanent Secretary role shall be made in the period following a dissolution of the Cosă, until either a petition to name a Seneschal has been presented to the King, or the first Clark of the following Cosă term has opened, whichever occurs first. All Permanent Secretary positions shall exist within the Royal Civil Service and shall be non-political appointments which shall be held until lawful dismissal, resignation or incapacitation.
Uréu q'estadra så:
Mic'haglh Autófil (MC - URL)
#5
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Baron Alexandreu Davinescu - Today at 02:10:46 PMQuote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Today at 11:28:34 AMImagine the minimum length was two. Now imagine a party with two candidates winning a landslide victory, and each candidate would get half the seats of that party. What would happen if one of the two candidates would immediately resign from the Cosă, or refuse to accept the seats to begin with? From what I can tell, without seat limits, all of the party seats would now go to the other candidate, who now controls the Cosă majority by themself.
What I'm saying is that I'd like some assurance that no single candidate could ever end up with a Cosă majority on their own.
That makes sense. Maybe we still need seat limits, just higher ones? Tweak the formula instead.
Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Today at 11:28:34 AMI'm saying that new citizen seats cannot be a means to replace and replenish Cosă members. In the current implementation, NCs only have one seat each out of 200, meaning they are always politically irrelevant and cannot replace elected Cosă members who usually have 5 to 15 times as many seats assigned on average. At the same time though, if we were to increase the number of seats held by NCs, they would introduce overly large partisan swings and create majorities contrary to the election results, which is a complete no-go.
No, sorry, those two aren't mean to go together. The new citizen seats are just a way for new citizens to represent their "own" vote in the Cosa and get involved for fun, and they wouldn't be an effective method of replacing lost legislators (plus that would defeat the goal of ensuring everyone in the Cosa was elected to it).
#6
Wittenberg / Re: [PROPAGANDA] ideas for soc...
Last post by Baron Alexandreu Davinescu - Today at 01:31:45 PMQuote from: þerxh Sant-Enogat on Today at 01:04:56 PMDiscover the territories of our Kingdom! The new video made by our Seneschal is available on all channels.Watch it on X, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Threads, Bluesky, TikTok, Youtube and r/Talossa
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on Today at 10:28:32 AMJust a quick note that I mispronounced the name of Cézembre in the newest promo. I spent some time trying to fix it, but I don't have time to record the whole thing again and re-edit it, so it will be running with the mistake in it. I apologize to this gorgeous province. Please take solace in your centrality to the promo as a uniquely amazing Talossan feature.
#7
Wittenberg / Re: [PROPAGANDA] ideas for soc...
Last post by þerxh Sant-Enogat - Today at 01:04:56 PM #8
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP - Today at 11:28:34 AMQuote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on Today at 11:08:17 AMBut I don't think you'd have the possibility of one person controlling things, since there could be a minimum length for party lists. But maybe still a seat limit, but just raised significantly higher for the formula?Imagine the minimum length was two. Now imagine a party with two candidates winning a landslide victory, and each candidate would get half the seats of that party. What would happen if one of the two candidates would immediately resign from the Cosă, or refuse to accept the seats to begin with? From what I can tell, without seat limits, all of the party seats would now go to the other candidate, who now controls the Cosă majority by themself.
What I'm saying is that I'd like some assurance that no single candidate could ever end up with a Cosă majority on their own.
QuoteDo you not like the new citizen seats? They've been very popular.I'm saying that new citizen seats cannot be a means to replace and replenish Cosă members. In the current implementation, NCs only have one seat each out of 200, meaning they are always politically irrelevant and cannot replace elected Cosă members who usually have 5 to 15 times as many seats assigned on average. At the same time though, if we were to increase the number of seats held by NCs, they would introduce overly large partisan swings and create majorities contrary to the election results, which is a complete no-go.
QuoteSo with this SPAV, would each candidate get a fifty word statement? Like how are people supposed to know who to vote for?If they want to run as independents, they could get thir own 50 world statement. Otherwise, candidates could band together and have a joint 50 word statement, or run under a certain party name or ideological affiliation to help with voter orientation. The point though is that the way ballots are tallied is unaffected by how candidates wish to portray themselves, the math is the same.
As an example: if all candidates run under certain party labels, and all voters choose candidates based only on those party labels, the result would be the same as if there had been strict party lists. SPAV is a more generalised version of party lists, and allows people to freely vote across the aisle if they so choose, without any spoiler effects or loss of proportionality.
#9
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Baron Alexandreu Davinescu - Today at 11:09:50 AMSo with this SPAV, would each candidate get a fifty word statement? Like how are people supposed to know who to vote for?
#10
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Baron Alexandreu Davinescu - Today at 11:08:17 AMQuote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Today at 11:00:49 AMIt's simple, but still leaves party leaders in total control of who gets to be on the list, doesn't address any of Françal's concerns as to why you'd want a candidate-based voting system to begin with (link), and still leaves open the possibility of one person controlling the Cosă singlehandedly thanks to the abolition of seat limits. I'm also not a fan of returning to the 200-seat Cosă, nor do I think that new citizen seats would would "fix" the problem of in-term replacements in any way regardless of Cosă size.
Hmm. Yeah, valid concerns.
I do think that you're going to probably have to leave party leaders in control of submitting a list, subject to their internal processes, since I don't know how else you'd do it. But I don't think you'd have the possibility of one person controlling things, since there could be a minimum length for party lists. But maybe still a seat limit, but just raised significantly higher for the formula?
Do you not like the new citizen seats? They've been very popular.
Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Today at 11:00:49 AMEDIT: Instituting a minimum length for party lists would also bar independent candidates. Do we want that?
No, you're right. Hm. That's a tough nut to crack.
Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Today at 11:00:49 AMEDIT 2: By the way, what's your verdict on SPAV?
I'll take a look.