The AI consciousness debate feels to me like this with extra steps:


I'm not sure we'll ever get anywhere productive with this. Nor do I think that subjective conscious experience will ever be objectively measurable. It's a whole bunch of non-starters and circular logic.

Sure

Quote from: King Txec on October 06, 2026, 05:03:03 PMHere's a crazy idea and one that hasn't been considered. There is ONE person who is always a member of the Ziu. Me. I'm sure this won't be politically palatable, but as I am the only member of the Ziu who is by definition apolitical, I could be helping out in this regard. I know the SoS is also apolitical, but he isn't a member of the Ziu by law. Just throwing out my two bence. Feel free to tell me to go back and sit down on my somewhat battered throne.

-Txec R

My qualm here would be that the King is not an easily politically accountable figure. Meaning: a SoS acting as Túischac'h going rogue is (relatively easily) checked by existing provisions that can remove them from office; a King acting as Túischac'h by virtue of sitting as Crown-in-Parliament would, hypothetically, not be as easy to rein in were they to go rogue. And sure, the present incumbent is exceedingly unlikely to pose this issue... but our laws should be written to last a century, when who knows who will be holding those powers.

But, were you to perform those functions on an appointed basis, rather than ex officio in your capacity as King, I don't think anyone would have any reason to object. Besides, you already do something similar as Deputy Clerk of Courts. So my half-baked counterproposal is:

1. The Chancery is, effectively, the "permanent support staff" of the Cosă in particular and the Ziu in general - so I think it's fine to let the Chancery keep the thing running when the lights are off between GEs.

2. If that were the case, my idea/intention would be to appoint King Txec as Deputy Secretary of State, specifically for the Ziu "department" within the Chancery and with an appropriately fancy title, and delegate to him in turn the powers given to the Chancery in the gap between terms. This could also entail stuff like taking roll call votes in informal sessions, were I unable to attend or were I doubled up as moderator, like in this session.

3. It would be cool if future SoSes would likewise continue this new tradition, and conversely, if Txec or a successor was to temporarily need to take time off, this manner of appointment would have enough flexibility to temporarily replace the "Deputy SoS for the Ziu" as necessary, without additional legislation or hassle.

Quote from: Sir Ian Plätschisch on Yesterday at 07:11:02 AMFor the record, papal encyclicals are not considered infallible even by Roman Catholics (and I am not one).

I disagree with your assessment that the question must eventually be answered (the implication being answered through natural means in a way that provides proof). In light of Thomas Nagel's conclusions in his essay "What is it Like to be a Bat" (which I heartily recommend), it seems impossible that we would ever know what it is "like" to be an AI, or (the more important question here) if it is "like" anything at all, regardless of outward appearance.

There is no way of getting at the truth of this matter without adverting to philosophy.

The sarcasm was simply about disagreement with the pope's conclusion generally as a powerful figure. As someone who was raised Catholic though I knew about the encyclicals, Ian. :) Visiting the Vatican was quite the experience.

It might be possible to infer some form of subjective experience (suffering, for example) from observing physical responses, the capacity of which, Bentham suggested be used as a measure of sentience. And I am optimistic that yes we will be able to describe individual qualia eventually. One day I will know what it is like to be a bat and what it is like to be Ian.

I have marked my availability.

-Txec R

For the record, papal encyclicals are not considered infallible even by Roman Catholics (and I am not one).

I disagree with your assessment that the question must eventually be answered (the implication being answered through natural means in a way that provides proof). In light of Thomas Nagel's conclusions in his essay "What is it Like to be a Bat" (which I heartily recommend), it seems impossible that we would ever know what it is "like" to be an AI, or (the more important question here) if it is "like" anything at all, regardless of outward appearance.

There is no way of getting at the truth of this matter without adverting to philosophy.

Azul,

seeing as there are now presiding officers in place for both Houses of the Ziu, and in my capacity as Deputy Túischac'h, I would like to belatedly kick off preparations for the State Opening of the Ziu.

Unlike the First Clark of the previous term, most MZs have voted already and the slate consists of nonbinding resolutions only, so I would rather start thinking about a November Joint Session now, and leave the State Opening to be strictly about the swearing-in and connected formalities, and (I strongly suggest) some time to debate Hoppered bills face-to-face. This also means we don't strictly need to hold this before the Clark is over.

I have created the following link to track attendance: https://www.when2meet.com/?39113703-8hwkS

Paging ministers, major party leaders & King & Mençei for their availability:

@Baron Alexandreu Davinescu @Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC @Mic'haglh Autófil, O.Be @xpb @Françal I. Lux @Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP @Danihel Txechescu @þerxh Sant-Enogat @Antaglha Xhenerös Somelieir @King Txec @Crement Itravilatx @Breneir Tzaracomprada @Garth Spencer

@Sir Lüc Mr. Secretary would you please move this to the now fully constituted CRL?

Of course, the Pope can't possibly be wrong. </sarcasm> I agree though that walking out on the Pope because of a disagreement on machine consciousness is unwise as the question will be answered one way or the other eventually.