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#41
Wittenberg / Re: [PROPAGANDA] ideas for soc...
Last post by Baron Alexandreu Davinescu - Yesterday at 01:31:45 PMQuote from: þerxh Sant-Enogat on Yesterday at 01:04:56 PMDiscover the territories of our Kingdom! The new video made by our Seneschal is available on all channels.Watch it on X, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Threads, Bluesky, TikTok, Youtube and r/Talossa
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on Yesterday at 10:28:32 AMJust a quick note that I mispronounced the name of Cézembre in the newest promo. I spent some time trying to fix it, but I don't have time to record the whole thing again and re-edit it, so it will be running with the mistake in it. I apologize to this gorgeous province. Please take solace in your centrality to the promo as a uniquely amazing Talossan feature.
#42
Wittenberg / Re: [PROPAGANDA] ideas for soc...
Last post by þerxh Sant-Enogat - Yesterday at 01:04:56 PM #43
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP - Yesterday at 11:28:34 AMQuote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on Yesterday at 11:08:17 AMBut I don't think you'd have the possibility of one person controlling things, since there could be a minimum length for party lists. But maybe still a seat limit, but just raised significantly higher for the formula?Imagine the minimum length was two. Now imagine a party with two candidates winning a landslide victory, and each candidate would get half the seats of that party. What would happen if one of the two candidates would immediately resign from the Cosă, or refuse to accept the seats to begin with? From what I can tell, without seat limits, all of the party seats would now go to the other candidate, who now controls the Cosă majority by themself.
What I'm saying is that I'd like some assurance that no single candidate could ever end up with a Cosă majority on their own.
QuoteDo you not like the new citizen seats? They've been very popular.I'm saying that new citizen seats cannot be a means to replace and replenish Cosă members. In the current implementation, NCs only have one seat each out of 200, meaning they are always politically irrelevant and cannot replace elected Cosă members who usually have 5 to 15 times as many seats assigned on average. At the same time though, if we were to increase the number of seats held by NCs, they would introduce overly large partisan swings and create majorities contrary to the election results, which is a complete no-go.
QuoteSo with this SPAV, would each candidate get a fifty word statement? Like how are people supposed to know who to vote for?If they want to run as independents, they could get thir own 50 world statement. Otherwise, candidates could band together and have a joint 50 word statement, or run under a certain party name or ideological affiliation to help with voter orientation. The point though is that the way ballots are tallied is unaffected by how candidates wish to portray themselves, the math is the same.
As an example: if all candidates run under certain party labels, and all voters choose candidates based only on those party labels, the result would be the same as if there had been strict party lists. SPAV is a more generalised version of party lists, and allows people to freely vote across the aisle if they so choose, without any spoiler effects or loss of proportionality.
#44
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Baron Alexandreu Davinescu - Yesterday at 11:09:50 AMSo with this SPAV, would each candidate get a fifty word statement? Like how are people supposed to know who to vote for?
#45
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Baron Alexandreu Davinescu - Yesterday at 11:08:17 AMQuote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Yesterday at 11:00:49 AMIt's simple, but still leaves party leaders in total control of who gets to be on the list, doesn't address any of Françal's concerns as to why you'd want a candidate-based voting system to begin with (link), and still leaves open the possibility of one person controlling the Cosă singlehandedly thanks to the abolition of seat limits. I'm also not a fan of returning to the 200-seat Cosă, nor do I think that new citizen seats would would "fix" the problem of in-term replacements in any way regardless of Cosă size.
Hmm. Yeah, valid concerns.
I do think that you're going to probably have to leave party leaders in control of submitting a list, subject to their internal processes, since I don't know how else you'd do it. But I don't think you'd have the possibility of one person controlling things, since there could be a minimum length for party lists. But maybe still a seat limit, but just raised significantly higher for the formula?
Do you not like the new citizen seats? They've been very popular.
Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Yesterday at 11:00:49 AMEDIT: Instituting a minimum length for party lists would also bar independent candidates. Do we want that?
No, you're right. Hm. That's a tough nut to crack.
Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Yesterday at 11:00:49 AMEDIT 2: By the way, what's your verdict on SPAV?
I'll take a look.
#46
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP - Yesterday at 11:00:49 AMIt's simple, but still leaves party leaders in total control of who gets to be on the list, doesn't address any of Françal's concerns as to why you'd want a candidate-based voting system to begin with (link), and still leaves open the possibility of one person controlling the Cosă singlehandedly thanks to the abolition of seat limits. I'm also not a fan of returning to the 200-seat Cosă, nor do I think that new citizen seats would would "fix" the problem of in-term replacements in any way regardless of Cosă size.
EDIT: Instituting a minimum length for party lists would also bar independent candidates. Do we want that?
EDIT 2: By the way, what's your verdict on SPAV? I can't think of simpler voter instructions than simply "choose everyone you like".
EDIT: Instituting a minimum length for party lists would also bar independent candidates. Do we want that?
EDIT 2: By the way, what's your verdict on SPAV? I can't think of simpler voter instructions than simply "choose everyone you like".
#47
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Baron Alexandreu Davinescu - Yesterday at 10:47:56 AMMaybe, yeah. I think Luc has done a good job with the directions, generally, but maybe they need a closer look.
What do you think of what I suggested, though? It's dead simple, would ensure that no one gets elected unless the voters chose a list with their name on it, and eliminates a lot of party leader power.
What do you think of what I suggested, though? It's dead simple, would ensure that no one gets elected unless the voters chose a list with their name on it, and eliminates a lot of party leader power.
#48
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP - Yesterday at 10:40:54 AMQuote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on Yesterday at 10:25:17 AMThey're made aware of the voting system and how it works and think of it from time to time thanks to the consciousness raised in them by their daily lives, I would imagine. Everyone in Germany is voting that way, after all. The news has explainers about it, and their friends are all voting with that same method, and so on.Interestingly enough, this is not actually the case. Details on the system (including the number of votes and how and when splitting is allowed) depends on the state and county, and federal elections use a different system altogether. What they do have though are very detailed explanations of how to cast a valid ballot on the ballot itself, including the number of total votes, how vote splitting and cumulation works, how to remove candidates from lists, etc.
Perhaps a more in-depth explanation on how to cast ranked ballots would help with RCV, and likewise with other proposed systems.
#49
Cézembre / Mea culpa
Last post by Baron Alexandreu Davinescu - Yesterday at 10:28:32 AMJust a quick note that I mispronounced the name of Cézembre in the newest promo. I spent some time trying to fix it, but I don't have time to record the whole thing again and re-edit it, so it will be running with the mistake in it. I apologize to this gorgeous province. Please take solace in your centrality to the promo as a uniquely amazing Talossan feature.
#50
El Funal/The Hopper / Re: Ziu Reform Possibilities
Last post by Baron Alexandreu Davinescu - Yesterday at 10:25:17 AMQuote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Yesterday at 09:58:39 AMBut the choice they make is effectively only for a logo, since party statements and mailers are fluff, party lists are not-binding, and the current system only allows you to pick one party with no further input allowed. That is the reality, is it not?
I disagree. In my experience, the campaign matters a lot. An effective campaign message and outreach effort is the difference between 10% of the vote and 40%.
Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Yesterday at 09:58:39 AMQuoteGermans are living in Germany, and there are newspapers, magazine, television, advertisements, and physical mail that call their attention to their politics. Their daily lives do, as well. If the roads are rough and poorly maintained, people begin to notice and complain, and if they receive poor constituent services, then their vote might change. If inflation goes up, they often are inclined to punish the incumbent administration for the rise in the cost of living. Daily life makes it more likely their political awareness is heightened.It's an accurate description of how people become politically involved, but none of this has anything to do with how people (both the politically involved and the uninvolved) manage to navigate the "complicated" voting system without any issues. That part remains unexplained.
They're made aware of the voting system and how it works and think of it from time to time thanks to the consciousness raised in them by their daily lives, I would imagine. Everyone in Germany is voting that way, after all. The news has explainers about it, and their friends are all voting with that same method, and so on. Talossans don't have that, usually.
But it's hard for me to speak to these specific systems. I'm not even saying Talossans can't do it... I'm just urging caution and a lot of care!
Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Yesterday at 09:58:39 AMYou might think you're not mocking, but it really reads that way... especially when I'm just asking us to think about the element of complication as one factor to consider.QuoteI do not think you should mock people who are relatively uninvolved and just like to belong and vote.It's not mocking. The amount of copy-pasted invalid votes cast last election is genuinely concerning. A sudden spike in invalid votes should concern you, as well.