My suggestion is simply not to adopt XPB's suggestion. It would stretch the principle of Provincial Assignment beyond recognition. Status quo, please. Sorry, I appear to have replied to a disappearing post?

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on March 17, 2023, 02:46:03 PMMy suggestion is simply not to adopt XPB's suggestion. It would stretch the principle of Provincial Assignment beyond recognition. Status quo, please. Sorry, I appear to have replied to a disappearing post?

Yeah, self-moderation at work.
XPB, I am curious to hear your response to the concern expressed by Miestra.
Also Miestra...any other comments on the bill which deals with far more than XPB's addition?

Generally I think provincial assignments are quite arbitrary, so I was only really concerned with two issues: (a) fixing the Mexico loophole; (b) rebalancing in favour of Vuode which is becoming a "ghost province". I can see you fixed the first one; as for the second one, I'll defer to Vuodeans themselves. However, it looks like the overseas catchment area for Vuode is North-West Africa, which I wouldn't have considered a growth area...

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on March 17, 2023, 07:26:50 PMGenerally I think provincial assignments are quite arbitrary, so I was only really concerned with two issues: (a) fixing the Mexico loophole; (b) rebalancing in favour of Vuode which is becoming a "ghost province". I can see you fixed the first one; as for the second one, I'll defer to Vuodeans themselves. However, it looks like the overseas catchment area for Vuode is North-West Africa, which I wouldn't have considered a growth area...

Thank you Miestra. I also divided Mexico (treating it like the other North American nations) at the state/provincial level. Half of the Mexican states went to Vuode and half went to Maricopa. I am completely open to changes, of course.

Quote from: Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB on March 17, 2023, 05:55:32 AM

Quote from: xpb on March 16, 2023, 09:56:25 PMA suggestion on 7.3.
No Talossan citizens may transfer his their provincial citizenship to a different province, except either by physically moving into that province or into the zone corresponding to that province,

or by providing bona fides as to the following:
a) A citizen was born on the territory of the relevant province;
b) The biological mother or biological father of the citizen was born on the territory of the relevant province;
c) One of biological grandparents of a citizen was born on the territory of the relevant province;
d) The citizen has engaged in a minimum of five years education under the age of 18 within the territory of the relevant province.

So by this logic, if I decided that since my mother was born in Iowa I could transfer to Vuode, and since I was born in Germany, I could transfer to Cezembre, despite the fact I've lived in California and thus Maricopa since 1987?

This is similar to rules adopted by FIFA as to what country a participant may represent in worldwide competition.  As is noted in 7.3.1 The provisions in this section do not apply unless the citizen explicitly consents to being reassigned. Whenever any Talossan wants to move his provincial assignment to the province in whose assigned area he actually lives, he may do so by notifying the Chancery. The move will be officially recognised once the Chancery has validated the request. (49RZ21 49RZ13)

As to the comment

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on March 17, 2023, 02:43:31 PMProbably the same as mine. People to Provinces should mean just that. We stand by the principle of geographical assignment, otherwise the Provinces will cease to be provinces, they will become "self-sorting clubs" as people tweak the rules to end up in provinces with their friends. Fine, but let's abolish the Senäts if we do that.

Is there something wrong with citizens having self determination?  Was not Fiovă founded among those who had similar interests?

Quote from: xpb on March 18, 2023, 12:15:26 AMIs there something wrong with citizens having self determination?  Was not Fiovă founded among those who had similar interests?

That's a curious way to describe why Fiovă came to be...

Quote from: Üc R. Tärfâ on March 18, 2023, 02:20:45 AM

Quote from: xpb on March 18, 2023, 12:15:26 AMIs there something wrong with citizens having self determination?  Was not Fiovă founded among those who had similar interests?

That's a curious way to describe why Fiovă came to be...

A group of people decided that they would rather not be part of the Kingdom by self determination.  When they decided to return, Fiovă was established at the culmination of the Reunision of the Talossan people as the home Province for the former citizens.

The proposed addition along the lines of expanded ancestry offers limited flexibility, and where others that wish to relocate that do not have bona fides related to a specific area could instead petition the Crown for relocation.

As it stands, the provinces are being treated as nations in and of themselves based on portions of, or entire other nations.

And that's Talossan Tradition. The TNC is all in favour of Talossan tradition, right?

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on March 18, 2023, 03:17:02 PMAnd that's Talossan Tradition. The TNC is all in favour of Talossan tradition, right?

It sounds like you are in support of the change then, Miestra?

@xpb @Miestră Schivă, UrN

Would you both be agreeable to this?

Quote7.3. Talossan citizens may transfer their provincial citizenship to a different province, either by physically moving into that province or into the zone corresponding to that province, or by providing bona fides (determined by the Ministry of Immigration) as to the following:
a) A citizen was born on the territory of the relevant province;
b) A parent or guardian of the citizen was born on the territory of the relevant province;

This would lessen the room for an ancestral claim to self or parents.

No. Provincial assignment must always be based on where you personally reside, unless grandfathered in. The last thing we want is "self-determination" of provincial membership, which will lead to people migrating between provinces for perceived electoral advantages, leading to gerrymandering. "Volunteer provinces" can only be considered if we abolish the Senäts.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on March 21, 2023, 10:18:26 PMNo. Provincial assignment must always be based on where you personally reside, unless grandfathered in. The last thing we want is "self-determination" of provincial membership, which will lead to people migrating between provinces for perceived electoral advantages, leading to gerrymandering. "Volunteer provinces" can only be considered if we abolish the Senäts.

Understood. Are there any other issues with the proposal which would prevent you from supporting it?

I *personally* have no issue with the new catchment boundaries, but I would really appreciate someone actually from Vuode chiming in.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on March 22, 2023, 03:57:25 PMI *personally* have no issue with the new catchment boundaries, but I would really appreciate someone actually from Vuode chiming in.

Thank you Miestra. I also would love someone from Vuode to comment.
I do think we may need to add additional countries to Vuode, as you said the Berber countries are not a growth area and I am unable to predict the intake of new citizens from the Mexican states currently allotted to Vuode in this proposal.

As a citizen of Vuode, I think the catchment areas in the United States and Mexico are great, the African catchment area to me is negligible but I think it works.