Reserved seats for new citizens

Started by Miestră Schivă, UrN, December 27, 2021, 04:23:00 PM

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Miestră Schivă, UrN

On the one hand: the old system whereby political parties could give seats to whoever they wanted enabled corruption and meant no democratic accountability of who got in the Cosa.

On the other hand: it allowed new citizens to get involved in national legislation right away, should they want to.

POSSIBLE COMPROMISE: reserve a certain amount of seats in the Cosa (7.5% of the Cosa, 15 out of the current 200? or in addition to the current 200?) for the Secretary of State (not the parties) to allocate to people who immigrated since the last election, maximum of 1.5% of the Cosa per person. This is not dissimilar to how other countries have reserved seats which are nominated (not elected) to bring minority or marginalised groups into the legislature. So random newbie turns up, SoS says "here are your 3 seats". If we run out of seats because more than 5 newbies show up, the SoS can redistribute the allocations. I doubt we'd get more than 15 per term.

This would allow newbies to get involved right away without having to pledge allegiance to one or another political party right off the bat. It would mean influence over legislation, and possibly over VoCs, but not disproportionately so (perhaps the allocated seats wouldn't get to vote on the VoC?) However it would need an OrgLaw amendment to IV.1 and IV.2.

Comments?

PROTECT THE ORGLAW FROM POWER GRABS - NO POLITICISED KING! Vote THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA
¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

xpb

#1
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on December 27, 2021, 04:23:00 PM
On the one hand: the old system whereby political parties could give seats to whoever they wanted enabled corruption and meant no democratic accountability of who got in the Cosa.

On the other hand: it allowed new citizens to get involved in national legislation right away, should they want to.

POSSIBLE COMPROMISE: reserve a certain amount of seats in the Cosa (7.5% of the Cosa, 15 out of the current 200? or in addition to the current 200?) for the Secretary of State (not the parties) to allocate to people who immigrated since the last election, maximum of 1.5% of the Cosa per person. This is not dissimilar to how other countries have reserved seats which are nominated (not elected) to bring minority or marginalised groups into the legislature. So random newbie turns up, SoS says "here are your 3 seats". If we run out of seats because more than 5 newbies show up, the SoS can redistribute the allocations. I doubt we'd get more than 15 per term.

This would allow newbies to get involved right away without having to pledge allegiance to one or another political party right off the bat. It would mean influence over legislation, and possibly over VoCs, but not disproportionately so (perhaps the allocated seats wouldn't get to vote on the VoC?) However it would need an OrgLaw amendment to IV.1 and IV.2.

Comments?

This could work -- if checks and balances are maintained, such as having a monarch (king or queen) not subject to standing for election -- vs a president elected each 5 years (even if they have a different title assigned)

C. M. Siervicül

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on December 27, 2021, 04:23:00 PM
Comments?
I like this idea! This makes sense not just as a way to get people involved right away, but also to make sure that citizens who have not yet had the opportunity to vote have at least a minimal amount of representation in the Cosa.

I would suggest allowing the SoS to give new citizens one seat each, upon the request of the citizen, and I would probably add them to the existing 200 (so you don't have to take seats away from anyone, though we'd probably need to check with the Chancery to see how easily the database can accommodate additional seats). Three seats would overrepresent new citizens compared to people who actually voted in the last election, which is why I suggest only one:  I don't think new citizens should get more of a voice in the Cosa than voters. Even two seats would overrepresent them if election turnout exceeds 100, but one seat would be fine until we get turnouts of over 200 voters, at which point we could work something out else out.

Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB

The database can accommodate more than 200 seats. I agree that one seat per new citizen is still a good way to get involved.
Sir Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, UrB, GST, O.SPM, SMM
Secretár d'Estat
Guaír del Sabor Talossan
The Squirrel Viceroy of Arms, The Rouge Elephant Herald, RTCoA
Cunstaval da Vuode
Justice Emeritus of the Uppermost Cort
Former Seneschal

C. M. Siervicül

#4
Oh yeah, on the question of whether the newbie seats should be able to vote on the VoC, I can see arguments both ways. On the one hand, if we have a lot of new citizens who feel unrepresented by the current government, maybe they should have a say in whether to dissolve the Cosa and hold new elections early. On the other hand, our elections aren't that far apart anyways and maybe it's reasonable to expect them to spend a few months getting acclimated before giving them the power to potentially bring down the government.

Breneir Tzaracomprada

What about making the seats consultative? New citizen consultative seats can debate and even submit to the hopper, perhaps, but not vote. So, 200 regular and however many consultative seats needed. And maybe their consultative status would last for one full Cosa session.


Distain, MC
Fighting the good fight

Ian Plätschisch

Hopper submissions and debates are already open to all.

Miestră Schivă, UrN

Very good to see that there's some cross party buy-in for this idea!

So let's get to specifics. Let's look at current OrgLaw IV.1:

QuoteCosa is the national legislative assembly, and is composed of 200 seats apportioned among political parties based on their performance in the General Election. It may administer itself as it sees fit.

The bolded bit is the part which would right now make this suggestion unconstitutional. So - how should we change it?

PROTECT THE ORGLAW FROM POWER GRABS - NO POLITICISED KING! Vote THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA
¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Breneir Tzaracomprada

#8
Quote from: Ian Plätschisch on December 28, 2021, 01:49:30 PM
Hopper submissions and debates are already open to all.

Someone who is not a member of the Cosa, Senate, or the King can not submit to the Hopper if I recall correctly. So not open to all.
I am trying to ensure that consultative members of the Cosa would be able to do so as well. 

I am referencing Article VII, Section 5 of the OrgLaw.


Distain, MC
Fighting the good fight

Breneir Tzaracomprada

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on December 28, 2021, 02:38:40 PM
Very good to see that there's some cross party buy-in for this idea!

So let's get to specifics. Let's look at current OrgLaw IV.1:

QuoteCosa is the national legislative assembly, and is composed of 200 seats apportioned among political parties based on their performance in the General Election. It may administer itself as it sees fit.

The bolded bit is the part which would right now make this suggestion unconstitutional. So - how should we change it?

If there are few cascading effects of the change then would it be simplest to just add language saying "and one additional seat per new citizen within the current Cosa session."


Distain, MC
Fighting the good fight

Miestră Schivă, UrN

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on December 28, 2021, 03:19:55 PM
Someone who is not a member of the Cosa, Senate, or the King can not submit to the Hopper if I recall correctly.

You don't recall correctly.


Quote from: El Lexhatx H.6.1
6.1. All citizens of Talossa are entitled to participate fully in discussions and debates in the Hopper, within the bounds of law and of the decisions of the administering and presiding authorities of the Hopper. Any citizen may submit a draft of legislation to the Hopper, though these shall not be considered to be "legislative proposals" until sponsored by one or more individuals authorised to submit legislative proposals under Organic Law VII.5.


PROTECT THE ORGLAW FROM POWER GRABS - NO POLITICISED KING! Vote THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA
¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on December 28, 2021, 03:31:37 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on December 28, 2021, 02:38:40 PM
Very good to see that there's some cross party buy-in for this idea!

So let's get to specifics. Let's look at current OrgLaw IV.1:

QuoteCosa is the national legislative assembly, and is composed of 200 seats apportioned among political parties based on their performance in the General Election. It may administer itself as it sees fit.

The bolded bit is the part which would right now make this suggestion unconstitutional. So - how should we change it?

If there are few cascading effects of the change then would it be simplest to just add language saying "and one additional seat per new citizen within the current Cosa session."

This sounds excellent.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan


Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Breneir Tzaracomprada

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on December 28, 2021, 03:34:45 PM
Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on December 28, 2021, 03:19:55 PM
Someone who is not a member of the Cosa, Senate, or the King can not submit to the Hopper if I recall correctly.

You don't recall correctly.


Quote from: El Lexhatx H.6.1
6.1. All citizens of Talossa are entitled to participate fully in discussions and debates in the Hopper, within the bounds of law and of the decisions of the administering and presiding authorities of the Hopper. Any citizen may submit a draft of legislation to the Hopper, though these shall not be considered to be "legislative proposals" until sponsored by one or more individuals authorised to submit legislative proposals under Organic Law VII.5.

Is this a conflict? Or an extension of the OrgLaw?


Distain, MC
Fighting the good fight

Breneir Tzaracomprada

#13
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on December 28, 2021, 03:35:20 PM
Quote from: Breneir Tzaracomprada on December 28, 2021, 03:31:37 PM
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on December 28, 2021, 02:38:40 PM
Very good to see that there's some cross party buy-in for this idea!

So let's get to specifics. Let's look at current OrgLaw IV.1:

QuoteCosa is the national legislative assembly, and is composed of 200 seats apportioned among political parties based on their performance in the General Election. It may administer itself as it sees fit.

The bolded bit is the part which would right now make this suggestion unconstitutional. So - how should we change it?

If there are few cascading effects of the change then would it be simplest to just add language saying "and one additional seat per new citizen within the current Cosa session."

This sounds excellent.

Thanks S:reu Davis for furthering the discussion. That feedback means a lot. [No snark intended]


Distain, MC
Fighting the good fight

Breneir Tzaracomprada

If it is that simple I can go ahead and prepare an amendment for submission to the Hopper. This is definitely a wonderful idea.


Distain, MC
Fighting the good fight