Succession Solution Amendment

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

First of all I should make clear that I have no reason to believe, at all, that the king has a successor in mind or that he would pick me. I'm not sure I would be a good choice, and I'm not sure I will be willing to accept a lifetime appointment. Everyone knows that I take that whole idea very seriously.

But if under this proposal, His Majesty selected myself or Dama Miestra or anyone else at all, they would only be confirmed as the successor once a democratically elected vote had agreed upon the choice. So there is absolutely zero chance that the king would somehow be able to force his choice on the country. In fact, one of the reasons why so many people like myself find this proposal so hard to swallow is that it would be pretty easy to force a general election instead of the outlined procedure.

I didn't know there was already an agreement on the matter, and that you could speak for every FDT senator. I thought I was able to ask Ian what he thought. Thank you for letting me know.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

You see the issue in the above two posts. The Baron says that he can't understand why anyone would think he's already lined up for Dear Successor. The Seneschal admits that that's the plan, and that anyone who doesn't like it can get lost.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

You see the issue in the above two posts. The Baron says that he can't understand why anyone would think he's already lined up for Dear Successor. The Seneschal admits that that's the plan, and that anyone who doesn't like it can get lost.

No, I noted your threat of "mass renunciations" and asked who was a part of this mass, Miestra. Which you appear hesitant to describe. You have made a representation and I am curious who these potential rage-quitters are.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Brenéir, we had a PM conversation a while ago, do you remember? I tried to explain to you - in frank and unemotional language - exactly why there is such massive animus towards your Distain on our side of politics, and why trying to parachute that person into the Monarchy would be a disaster for the Kingdom. Now it appears that you simply didn't believe me, and want to try it out to see if we mean it.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Brenéir, we had a PM conversation a while ago, do you remember? I tried to explain to you - in frank and unemotional language - exactly why there is such massive animus towards your Distain on our side of politics, and why trying to parachute that person into the Monarchy would be a disaster for the Kingdom. Now it appears that you simply didn't believe me, and want to try it out to see if we mean it.

I simply ask who these people are, Miestra. You said "mass renunciation."

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

You see the issue in the above two posts. The Baron says that he can't understand why anyone would think he's already lined up for Dear Successor. The Seneschal admits that that's the plan, and that anyone who doesn't like it can get lost.

That's not what he said.

I'm not going to engage with you like this. If no one else from the FDT is allowed to work towards a compromise while under your watchful gaze, that's unfortunate, but fine. I'll keep trying to make progress anyway.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

There's me, for a start. I will not live under "King Alex", or even under "Crown Prince Alex".

There's no organised movement - yet - because the situation has not become real yet. I am not discussing an already prepared plan, just what I sense is the general feeling on my side of politics. The precedent is the mass renunciation of the Talossan Liberal Party in 1999, after then-King Robert I said that he would simply never appoint one of them as Seneschal even if they won the election.

Maybe I'm wrong, lol, maybe it is just me.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

But if under this proposal, His Majesty selected myself or Dama Miestra or anyone else at all

Just on this issue: if KJ1 selected me, I'd turn it down because I'm a principled Republican.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I'm flattered that you think I'd be so easily confirmed by a plebiscite, but - frankly - I doubt either you or I would be likely to be selected.

Anyway, if you ever relax your red lines here, or if FDT members decide to engage outside of your representation, I'd be eager to keep working towards a compromise. I'll keep trying to do what I can to find workable solutions.

[Ian Plätschisch]

I'm not really interested in any reform to how the succession works unless it includes either fixed (renewable) terms or some other way of replacing the incumbent. Otherwise, to take an expression you use a lot, it's nothing but "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic." There is no reason to believe King John would need to be replaced under current law for the next several years, so there is little reason to do anything about it right now.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

Anyway, if you ever relax your red lines here

So you take the first step:

I'm not sure that everyone would sign off on a way to make it much easier to remove the monarch beyond the existing methods that permit removal with one vote in case of mis or non feasance.

Can you relax your red lines here?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Well, this proposal is not my preference. I'd prefer the king simply make his choice of successor. I think turning the monarchy into a partisan office, subject to campaigning and vulnerable to shortsighted backlash, would be a mistake. So making that entire prospect possible with a concerted campaign is already an enormous concession. My proposal is that the king gets to offer a candidate for approval first - still popular election, and limited in scope to only three candidates before the entire thing moves past him to just open partisan election.

I will continue to work on this, and hope for progress.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

This is coming only from me, not the party, but, I see possible room for manoeuvre.

The biggest objection to giving the King free choice would be that the "racing favourite" would be someone who would cause uproar from the opposition party.

If the King made a pinky promise not to pick that person - and if that person were to say something like "even if chosen I would decline" - that would undercut a lot of the heat from the debate.

But to do that would infringe on the principle of "the King makes the choice", which would possibly not be acceptable.

I will repeat as I suggested last year: that the King's choice could be made from a list of 3 candidates presented by the Seneschal and Leader of Opposition by consensus (i.e. with mutual veto).

But all this still runs up over the problem - since the status quo is preferable to anything that the Government is suggesting, the Senäts majority has no incentive to approve anything suggested so far.

[esbornatfiglheu]

For what it's worth, I don't much think there should be a guaranteed succession upon the ending of the monarch's term (life, abdication, or whatever).  Or at the very least, I don't think that the current monarch should be naming their IMMEDIATE successor (for public/popular review or otherwise).

At least partially, I think that is too prone to either:

• Simply going to whomever the King is tight with at the moment -or-
• You wind up with a Charles III situation where the heir apparent simply sits there like week-old crudite and YET ANOTHER person is locked into a near lifetime of relative inaction.

This is at least based on the assumption that the named heir will be expected to "hold themselves above the fray," and I don't see why they wouldn't be.  And its not like Talossa has the personnel to really sustain itself at current.  Locking down a second (presumably) active individual seems like a bad idea.

As it stands, I don't see how the preference of a single individual is at all preferable to the vagaries of partisan preference.  I know the current monarch has used to analogy of "the grumpy old man who saves the town from itself," and I guess that would be great if I at all trusted the current occupant to do right by Talossa.  And, quite simply, I don't.

The problem with monarchy is that it is almost impossible to fully divorce the structure from the personality.  It's right there in the name, baked right into the clay, that you cannot fully do so.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

Well, this proposal is not my preference. I'd prefer the king simply make his choice of successor. I think turning the monarchy into a partisan office, subject to campaigning and vulnerable to shortsighted backlash, would be a mistake. So making that entire prospect possible with a concerted campaign is already an enormous concession. My proposal is that the king gets to offer a candidate for approval first - still popular election, and limited in scope to only three candidates before the entire thing moves past him to just open partisan election.

I will continue to work on this, and hope for progress.

The point is that there are two aspects in this issue:

[1] Succession
[2] Term of office/Removal

The status quo is strong in both aspects but in two different directions.

If you ask one part to give up something on [1] you should give up something on [2].

Otherwise it's just one side relaxing their redlines: that's not a compromise.