Immigration Discussion

[Ian Plätschisch]

It's a really bad idea for political parties to begin recruiting prospective immigrants, since it will politicize the process in a way that can't possibly be good for the country.  If political parties start  hectoring potential citizens before they even immigrate, then it's going to lead to really obvious bad outcomes.  We've managed to avoid this for the most part for many many years, completely voluntarily, because as a community we've agreed not to turn the citizenship process into a partisan contest.

No one here (I think) is disputing this.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

I really don't appreciate you labeling the entire party as vitriolic. Partisan debate is often heated around here, and there is plenty of "vitriol" to be found on all sides if you know where to look. It is very easy to paint a bad picture of someone who is opposite from you politically when you are missing years (decades even) of essential context.

Quoted for truth.

Firstly, as to vitriol, I think that that's when someone actually says they hope you die of cancer and leave your children as orphans.  Which happened to me in Talossa just this month. Decades ago, a former King of Talossa actually wrote lies about me in Talossa's official history, which - as GV can confirm - new citizens simply believed because they couldn't believe friendly old Ben would just lie like that. I'm pretty sure no (current) FreeDem member has ever gone to the mattresses like that.

Secondly, Senator Plätschisch sums up my problems with how people are recruited to political parties in Talossa when he talks about "paint[ing] a bad picture of someone who is opposite from you politically" - though I would add deliberately leaving out "years (decades even) of essential context."  When this stuff is going on in PMs or private email - whether it happens before or after immigration - it's impossible to counteract until it's already too late and the "target" has assimilated the message that you and your colleagues are vitrol-spewing cheaters.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

It's a really bad idea for political parties to begin recruiting prospective immigrants, since it will politicize the process in a way that can't possibly be good for the country.  If political parties start  hectoring potential citizens before they even immigrate, then it's going to lead to really obvious bad outcomes.  We've managed to avoid this for the most part for many many years, completely voluntarily, because as a community we've agreed not to turn the citizenship process into a partisan contest.

No one here (I think) is disputing this.

Great! Let's please try to all help each other maintain this norm in the future.  Given GV's behavior and Miestra's spirited defense of same, the FDT position on this was not obvious.

The TNC has had a quick discussion about this over chat, and no one in our party has been broosking prospective immigrants in any way.  As Carlus affirms, we try to be really firm about it, since -- as you can see! -- we think it's pretty unethical and bad for Talossa.  If we hear that anyone from the TNC is broosking, either publicly or privately, we will act immediately.

As long as everyone is agreed on that, I am happy to consider the matter closed.  I'm not sure it's productive to argue about the public image of your party.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Speaking for myself, I can say that @GV should definitely cut it out. Had I noticed it going on before now I would have advised him of this privately (egg on my face for not keeping up with the immigration threads).

GV is spamming prospective immigrants with FreeDem recruitment messages again.  I guess this is just going to keep happening before every election?  Very uncool.

[Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB]

We'll talk to GV.