New Citizens Information Packet

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

Miestra herself is one of the longtime proponents of a republic, and there actually was a Republic of Talossa for many years. It formed when something like half of all active citizens grew outraged over the behavior of the then-king, Robert I. For a long time, there were two Talossas. Eventually, however, the two countries merged back together again. In recognition of their longtime cultural identity and contributions, a new province was created from voluntary cessions of existing provinces to make Fiova, and this process was considered to be a merger of equals. In the years since, some of these citizens and other new ones have continued the pursuit of a new Republic. There has actually been considerable effort just recently along those lines, with a proposal for a regularly elected president (The office would still be called "king," though, and would still have the same powers for now, so proponents of the change argue that this means it would basically be the same monarchy. I disagree, but it's a live argument and their perspective will be different.)

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in the future! If you immigrate, you can be a part of helping decide our future!

I did know of the Republic's existence — I've actually been trying to figure out for a week now how I think "Reunision" is properly pronounced, haha

Not that I'm a citizen yet, of course — and bearing in mind I would stand to benefit from such a change — but I think the idea of some Cosa seats for new citizens is a good one.

As far as the executive goes, I'll admit I've long thought of a directory as a good form of republic, but that's just my opinion.

Like so many things, Reunision started off as a typo. But it's one of the quirks of our country that people will often joyfully seize on small mistakes like that and turn them into traditions!

What do you mean when you speak about a directorate? Do you mean like the thing they had in revolutionary France? I don't know enough about political science to be sure I'm getting the reference.

That is actually where they get the name! A good current example is Switzerland. Their seven-member Federal Council serves as a collective Head of State and a Cabinet.

The Republic of Talossa had more of a French model, maybe. They had a parliamentary government with a president. I think that's what they have in France, anyway.

Some of our provinces effectively operate the way you're suggesting, though, with every interested citizen effectively comprising both an executive and legislative body. I don't think that there are any with a fixed number of members, though.

Can we change the settings so that the number of quoted messages is limited by default, like it was on ProBoards? This is getting out of hand.

What's getting out of hand?  Oh, the number of nested quotes?

Maybe there is a limit and we just haven't hit it yet.

[Ian Plätschisch]

How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

Miestra herself is one of the longtime proponents of a republic, and there actually was a Republic of Talossa for many years. It formed when something like half of all active citizens grew outraged over the behavior of the then-king, Robert I. For a long time, there were two Talossas. Eventually, however, the two countries merged back together again. In recognition of their longtime cultural identity and contributions, a new province was created from voluntary cessions of existing provinces to make Fiova, and this process was considered to be a merger of equals. In the years since, some of these citizens and other new ones have continued the pursuit of a new Republic. There has actually been considerable effort just recently along those lines, with a proposal for a regularly elected president (The office would still be called "king," though, and would still have the same powers for now, so proponents of the change argue that this means it would basically be the same monarchy. I disagree, but it's a live argument and their perspective will be different.)

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in the future! If you immigrate, you can be a part of helping decide our future!

I did know of the Republic's existence — I've actually been trying to figure out for a week now how I think "Reunision" is properly pronounced, haha

Not that I'm a citizen yet, of course — and bearing in mind I would stand to benefit from such a change — but I think the idea of some Cosa seats for new citizens is a good one.

As far as the executive goes, I'll admit I've long thought of a directory as a good form of republic, but that's just my opinion.

Like so many things, Reunision started off as a typo. But it's one of the quirks of our country that people will often joyfully seize on small mistakes like that and turn them into traditions!

What do you mean when you speak about a directorate? Do you mean like the thing they had in revolutionary France? I don't know enough about political science to be sure I'm getting the reference.

That is actually where they get the name! A good current example is Switzerland. Their seven-member Federal Council serves as a collective Head of State and a Cabinet.

The Republic of Talossa had more of a French model, maybe. They had a parliamentary government with a president. I think that's what they have in France, anyway.

Some of our provinces effectively operate the way you're suggesting, though, with every interested citizen effectively comprising both an executive and legislative body. I don't think that there are any with a fixed number of members, though.

Can we change the settings so that the number of quoted messages is limited by default, like it was on ProBoards? This is getting out of hand.

What's getting out of hand?  Oh, the number of nested quotes?

Maybe there is a limit and we just haven't hit it yet.

Perhaps.

[GV]

Actually, this is a nice stress-test for the software.  Lüc, your work on this continues to amaze.

How exactly do seats get divvied up in the Cosa? Like...I see people with multiple seats, and that just doesn't compute (though I have been following legislative discussions and that's one reason I'm a fan of the Direct Cosa, lol)

Okay: the Cosa is a strict proportional representation system, right? So, 200 seats, party X wins 15 percent of the vote, they get 30 seats.

After that, within a few special rules, parties can give any number of seats to whomever they like with a few restrictions:

- they can't give more than 1/3 of their seats to people who weren't on their list of candidates;
- there's a maximum number of seats any individual is allowed to hold which depends on total turnout (right now I believe that maximum is 28).

I should point out that these restrictions are relatively recent. In the 1980s, a party leader who won an absolute majority of seats could hold all those seats himself and basically thus be the Cosa all by himself. And when that person was the King, it meant rule by decree. I'm serious, if you'll read the old histories, King Robert I would "convene the Cosa" by himself in his bedroom and announce new laws to the masses in his next newsletter.

After that change, it was a struggle to implement party lists. Before those were implemented, parties could give seats to whomever; meaning not only did the voters have zero control over who got a vote in the Cosa, but there was a tradition whereby the ruling party recruited new citizens "fresh off the boat" by giving them Cosa seats. Talk about a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

This whole system is one of those botch-job compromises which only exist because of a stalemate between reformists and traditionalists. Any other questions?

I knew it was PR, the rest of the info was more what I was looking for. Thank you!

Other questions...I see there's been discussion on the monarchy and activity and whatnot. Would you say Talossa has a fairly notable republican current?

Miestra herself is one of the longtime proponents of a republic, and there actually was a Republic of Talossa for many years. It formed when something like half of all active citizens grew outraged over the behavior of the then-king, Robert I. For a long time, there were two Talossas. Eventually, however, the two countries merged back together again. In recognition of their longtime cultural identity and contributions, a new province was created from voluntary cessions of existing provinces to make Fiova, and this process was considered to be a merger of equals. In the years since, some of these citizens and other new ones have continued the pursuit of a new Republic. There has actually been considerable effort just recently along those lines, with a proposal for a regularly elected president (The office would still be called "king," though, and would still have the same powers for now, so proponents of the change argue that this means it would basically be the same monarchy. I disagree, but it's a live argument and their perspective will be different.)

It remains to be seen what's going to happen in the future! If you immigrate, you can be a part of helping decide our future!

I did know of the Republic's existence — I've actually been trying to figure out for a week now how I think "Reunision" is properly pronounced, haha

Not that I'm a citizen yet, of course — and bearing in mind I would stand to benefit from such a change — but I think the idea of some Cosa seats for new citizens is a good one.

As far as the executive goes, I'll admit I've long thought of a directory as a good form of republic, but that's just my opinion.

Like so many things, Reunision started off as a typo. But it's one of the quirks of our country that people will often joyfully seize on small mistakes like that and turn them into traditions!

What do you mean when you speak about a directorate? Do you mean like the thing they had in revolutionary France? I don't know enough about political science to be sure I'm getting the reference.

That is actually where they get the name! A good current example is Switzerland. Their seven-member Federal Council serves as a collective Head of State and a Cabinet.

The Republic of Talossa had more of a French model, maybe. They had a parliamentary government with a president. I think that's what they have in France, anyway.

Some of our provinces effectively operate the way you're suggesting, though, with every interested citizen effectively comprising both an executive and legislative body. I don't think that there are any with a fixed number of members, though.

Can we change the settings so that the number of quoted messages is limited by default, like it was on ProBoards? This is getting out of hand.

What's getting out of hand?  Oh, the number of nested quotes?

Maybe there is a limit and we just haven't hit it yet.

Perhaps.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

[Mic’haglh Autófil, SMC EiP]

Is...is the background text taken from what I think it's taken from?

It was...Dumbledore!

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

"I MAY BE A HOGWARTS STUDENT...." Hargirid paused angrily. "BUT I AM ALSO A SATANIST!

So tell me where you stand on the controversial issue: was Tara Gilesbie trolling, or just really really stupid?

[Mic’haglh Autófil, SMC EiP]

"I MAY BE A HOGWARTS STUDENT...." Hargirid paused angrily. "BUT I AM ALSO A SATANIST!

So tell me where you stand on the controversial issue: was Tara Gilesbie trolling, or just really really stupid?

Yes.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

So are you using what GV wrote, or should I do something, or what?

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Not impressed with what GV wrote which is almost identical to what KR1 wrote 20 years ago. I think we should try to do better than that.

Look, basically I tried to write the Packet all by myself (from Francal's) notes, earlier this year, and it utterly burned me out. If this is going to be done I need volunteers to help. Anyone interested is free to make suggestions.

[GV]

Not impressed with what GV wrote which is almost identical to what KR1 wrote 20 years ago. I think we should try to do better than that.

Look, basically I tried to write the Packet all by myself (from Francal's) notes, earlier this year, and it utterly burned me out. If this is going to be done I need volunteers to help. Anyone interested is free to make suggestions.

I figured adapting Ben's verbiage (with appropriate credit to him) was the way to go.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Not impressed with what GV wrote which is almost identical to what KR1 wrote 20 years ago. I think we should try to do better than that.

Look, basically I tried to write the Packet all by myself (from Francal's) notes, earlier this year, and it utterly burned me out. If this is going to be done I need volunteers to help. Anyone interested is free to make suggestions.

This looks like a primer mostly on Government stuff, which is different than I would have thought we'd be doing.  I'd have thought we'd be focusing more on the general stuff that people tend to do in Talossa, rather than an explainer on our infrastructure.  So maybe I'll do my own thing based on the New Citizen's Portal on the wiki, which can be handed out alongside your packet.  This will also help prevent any appearance that I'm trying to take over your project, since I anticipate that might cause some friction.

Here's the work in progress.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

This looks like a primer mostly on Government stuff, which is different than I would have thought we'd be doing.

The first question that prospective citizen Mic'haglh asked was on how the Government worked, and the second was on political parties. Talossa's political system is not transparent; it seems to be the first thing that prospectives are interested in; therefore it needs to be explained in simple terms for new citizens.

Any other comments?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

This looks like a primer mostly on Government stuff, which is different than I would have thought we'd be doing.

The first question that prospective citizen Mic'haglh asked was on how the Government worked, and the second was on political parties. Talossa's political system is not transparent; it seems to be the first thing that prospectives are interested in; therefore it needs to be explained in simple terms for new citizens.

Any other comments?

Oh, it's definitely important information and a lot of immigrants are interested in it. I was just surprised to see how in-depth it was planned to be on that front. But this is probably a great opportunity for more than one approach, which is only going to help things. I think your approach is a great idea and I wish you the best of luck with it.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Okay, roughed out the overall look and put up the sections.  I'm sure I've forgotten something, but it's a good first pass.  Will work more on it tomorrow, but anyone with suggestions should feel free to help me improve my rough!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/166lBxho0XBuY4bxT4rHoJDbJ9605r3dn9NM4UsLMreM/edit?usp=sharing

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Had another half-hour that I didn't anticipate, so I was able to pretty much wrap it up tonight, as it turns out.  I decided not to put in a military bit yet, since at the moment there isn't really anything that would be possible for a new immigrant.  There's a few other things I'm sure I forgot, and there's some minor editing to do, but I think I'm most of the way there.  Not sure it's exactly what the Government had in mind, but it's what I'd give a new immigrant.

What did I forget to mention, folks?

Side note: the Organic Law is missing the note at the top about when it was last amended, and it is located in the wrong place (it's at a spot for a 2017 Organic Law, but that's not a thing).