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Author Topic: La Cita es La Cita  (Read 201 times)

Offline Carlüs Éovart Vilaçafat

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La Cita es La Cita
« on: April 25, 2022, 10:31:24 AM »
I thought it would be a fun translation exercise to try and translate some of China Mieville's novel The City and The City. Mainly because I really like the story, it seems very relevant to how Talossa exists in the world, and it'll give be good El Glhetg practice because I learn better by doing.

If It's alright, I would like to post it here for correction and make sure I'm on the right track. Here is the first bit:

La Cita es La Cita

Pärts Viens: Besźel

I could not see the street or much of the estate.
Éu ni put vidar la stradâ ni belacop dal façiendâ.

We were enclosed by dirt colored blocks,
Noi girdevent à caramidâs pigmentadăs vianiaeasca


The second line describing the "dirt colored blocks" I'm not so sure about. I'm pretty sure I rendered it OK with "dirt-like colored bricks" but again, definitely open to a better way to translate that phrase in particular.
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Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: La Cità es La Cità
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2022, 12:19:28 PM »
There are a couple of problems with this. I will go through them in order, if that's okay.

  • The word for "city" is cità, not cita. Cita actually means "magpie, rendezvous, meeting", though nowadays it's recommended to spell it with a final Ă instead of a bare A. In any case, the title should therefore be La Cità es la Cità.
  • Éu put means "I can", not "I could". That part should be éu pognheveu instead, or simply pognheveu since éu is often left out when it's not necessary. However...
  • Talossan, just like languages such as French, Spanish and Italian, has a tendency for over-the-top negation, shall we say. The more negative a sentence, the better. As such, if you want to say "I could see neither X nor Y", it's better style to negate the verb as well, followed by the "neither... nor". So that part ought to be (Éu) non pognheveu vidar ni X ni Y.
  • You used both  and Ă in different parts of your translation. The two are interchangeable, but that doesnt mean you should switch between them on a word-by-word basis. Consistency is key here, with a preference for Ă whenever feasible. So in total, the first line would be (Éu) non pognheveu vidar ni la stradă ni belacop dal façiendă.
  • Noi girdevent means "we girded", not "we were girded". And since this passage is about bricks, I dont think "gird" is the right verb to use, anyway. "We were enclosed" would be noi estevent/füvent claudats. Whether you use estevent or füvent is entirely up to you.
  • "By" in passives is par. Furthermore, Talossan nouns need to be "introduced" more often than not (the exact contexts for noun introduction are covered in the Recomendăs), so "by bricks" in this case would be par dals caramidăs.
  • "Dirt-coloured" is a bit more complicated... perhaps da colour vianianesc "of dirt-like colour"? Also, keep in mind that "dirt-like" would be vianianesc, not vianiaesc. When the word ends in a stressed vowel, which is the case with vianià "dirt", and the suffix you want to end begins with a vowel, which is the case with -esc "-ish, -like, -esque", you must add an extra N between it and the suffix. The second line would thus be Noi estevent/füvent claudats par dals caramidăs da colour vianianesc.

I think that's everything. Valiant first effort, nonetheless. I hope I could help!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 12:21:42 PM by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial »
Editing posts is my thing. My bad.
Feel free to PM me if you have a Glheþ translation request!

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Offline Carlüs Éovart Vilaçafat

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Re: La Cità es La Cità
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2022, 12:42:52 PM »
There are a couple of problems with this. I will go through them in order, if that's okay.

  • The word for "city" is cità, not cita. Cita actually means "magpie, rendezvous, meeting", though nowadays it's recommended to spell it with a final Ă instead of a bare A. In any case, the title should therefore be La Cità es la Cità.
  • Éu put means "I can", not "I could". That part should be éu pognheveu instead, or simply pognheveu since éu is often left out when it's not necessary. However...
  • Talossan, just like languages such as French, Spanish and Italian, has a tendency for over-the-top negation, shall we say. The more negative a sentence, the better. As such, if you want to say "I could see neither X nor Y", it's better style to negate the verb as well, followed by the "neither... nor". So that part ought to be (Éu) non pognheveu vidar ni X ni Y.
  • You used both  and Ă in different parts of your translation. The two are interchangeable, but that doesnt mean you should switch between them on a word-by-word basis. Consistency is key here, with a preference for Ă whenever feasible. So in total, the first line would be (Éu) non pognheveu vidar ni la stradă ni belacop dal façiendă.
  • Noi girdevent means "we girded", not "we were girded". And since this passage is about bricks, I dont think "gird" is the right verb to use, anyway. "We were enclosed" would be noi estevent/füvent claudats. Whether you use estevent or füvent is entirely up to you.
  • "By" in passives is par. Furthermore, Talossan nouns need to be "introduced" more often than not (the exact contexts for noun introduction are covered in the Recomendăs), so "by bricks" in this case would be par dals caramidăs.
  • "Dirt-coloured" is a bit more complicated... perhaps da colour vianianesc "of dirt-like colour"? Also, keep in mind that "dirt-like" would be vianianesc, not vianiaesc. When the word ends in a stressed vowel, which is the case with vianià "dirt", and the suffix you want to end begins with a vowel, which is the case with -esc "-ish, -like, -esque", you must add an extra N between it and the suffix. The second line would thus be Noi estevent/füvent claudats par dals caramidăs da colour vianianesc.

I think that's everything. Valiant first effort, nonetheless. I hope I could help!

Thank you so much, this is great! I really appreciate you taking the time to go through my translation so far and it all makes perfect sense.

Most of these are silly mistakes I should have seen. I debated about including Éu when I know it's not necessary.

The way I got to vianiaeasca  was the feminine plural of "dirt" (to align with the feminine plural of caramidăs) from L'översteir: las vianiaes / vianians, and the feminine form of -esc according to Talossan.com: -easca.  Is -esc used for masculine and feminine now, or is there a specific reason that you used it instead of -easca?

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Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: La Cita es La Cita
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2022, 12:48:54 PM »
The way I got to vianiaeasca  was the feminine plural of "dirt" (to align with the feminine plural of caramidăs) from L'översteir: las vianiaes / vianians, and the feminine form of -esc according to Talossan.com: -easca.  Is -esc used for masculine and feminine now, or is there a specific reason that you used it instead of -easca?

Ah, you got the derivation backwards: you add the ending first, and then make it agree in gender and number. The reason why I used the masculine singular form vianianesc instead of the feminine plural form vianianeascăs is that in my translation, the adjective refers to colour, which is masculine singular. "Surrounded by dirt-like bricks" would've been claudats par dals caramidăs vianianeascăs, feminine plural.
Editing posts is my thing. My bad.
Feel free to PM me if you have a Glheþ translation request!

Va blog in Talossan: el Moct àl Súladi
El Parti Tafialistà, el parti el pü sancphünt del mundeu entieir.

Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: La Cita es La Cita
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2022, 12:51:18 PM »
Also, as a warning: Talossan.com is at least 8 years out of date and riddled with errors. I've been trying to get access to it to fix these mistakes, but no luck so far. I'd actively advise against using it.
Editing posts is my thing. My bad.
Feel free to PM me if you have a Glheþ translation request!

Va blog in Talossan: el Moct àl Súladi
El Parti Tafialistà, el parti el pü sancphünt del mundeu entieir.

Offline Carlüs Éovart Vilaçafat

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Re: La Cita es La Cita
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2022, 12:57:29 PM »
The way I got to vianiaeasca  was the feminine plural of "dirt" (to align with the feminine plural of caramidăs) from L'översteir: las vianiaes / vianians, and the feminine form of -esc according to Talossan.com: -easca.  Is -esc used for masculine and feminine now, or is there a specific reason that you used it instead of -easca?

Ah, you got the derivation backwards: you add the ending first, and then make it agree in gender and number. The reason why I used the masculine singular form vianianesc instead of the feminine plural form vianianeascăs is that in my translation, the adjective refers to colour, which is masculine singular. "Surrounded by dirt-like bricks" would've been claudats par dals caramidăs vianianeascăs, feminine plural.

This makes perfect sense, thank you!

Also, as a warning: Talossan.com is at least 8 years out of date and riddled with errors. I've been trying to get access to it to fix these mistakes, but no luck so far. I'd actively advise against using it.

I had a feeling... I guess I will stick to the Recomendăs on the wiki then.
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: La Cita es La Cita
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2022, 10:32:55 PM »
Who is still linking to the outdated talossan.com website? I thought we removed all the links to that from the wiki and the national website
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Offline Carlüs Éovart Vilaçafat

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Re: La Cita es La Cita
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2022, 10:36:30 PM »
Who is still linking to the outdated talossan.com website? I thought we removed all the links to that from the wiki and the national website

Google...  ;D
I also remember it from when I started to learn back in 2012 or so. So it was a familiar resource.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 11:22:03 PM by Carlüs Éovart Vilaçafat »
Oblivious Auditing Fellow, Royal Talossan College of Arms
Member, Talossan Science Fiction, Fantasy & Whisky Society
Head Coach of Els Soleiglhen da Maricopa Futbol Team
The hottest futbol team north of Havana!