CRL Committee for the 57th Cosa

[Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB]

AD, ESB, if you guys don't put your 2 bence in, Brenéir can't clark this until next time (as is my understanding).

We should lay some ground rules as to what "the CRL giving its recommendation" under El Lex H.6.6. Does this mean we have to have a 2/3 majority on an official report back? Or something looser, i.e. all 3 of us or maybe even just 2 of us having our say?

Um, I certainly HOPE you guys put in your thoughts as I added this to the Clark and I don't know if I can get MPF to respond in time to remove it (because I certainly can't).

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

6.6. After the CRL has given its recommendation, or if it gives no recommendation within 30 days of the bill having passed to committee, the bill has passed the hopper and the sponsor of the bill may ask for it to be Clarked, with or without amendments.

Does my bill fall under this provision? This bill was passed into committee on April 26, 2022.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

I think the Senator is correct, here. I still hope the Túischac'h and Mençéi will comment, but I checked the dates, and this bill will be able to be Clarked in 3 days in any case. Unfortunately, the fact that it's already in the unfixable Database machinery means the bill's proposer won't be able to take account of any further suggestions coming from the rest of the Committee.

[Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB]

I think the Senator is correct, here. I still hope the Túischac'h and Mençéi will comment, but I checked the dates, and this bill will be able to be Clarked in 3 days in any case. Unfortunately, the fact that it's already in the unfixable Database machinery means the bill's proposer won't be able to take account of any further suggestions coming from the rest of the Committee.

Unfortunately I didn't think to check if the bill had passed the CRL. I did know it had been IN committee, however. I'll be more careful going forward. My apologies to the CRL committee.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

It looks fine, I vote it's acceptable, problem solved, let's all be more careful.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

For future reference, I'd like a consensus from the other members on the broader question that arose:

We should lay some ground rules as to what "the CRL giving its recommendation" under El Lex H.6.6. Does this mean we have to have a 2/3 majority on an official report back? Or something looser, i.e. all 3 of us or maybe even just 2 of us having our say?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Anyone commenting on a proposal in any fashion suffices, as far as I'm concerned.  The entire CRL process is an annoying chore for both legislators and the members of the committee, so we should make it as minimally annoying as possible.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

I'm sorry to hear you don't feel that the job of legislative proofreading is an important one. I thought I remembered you being the guy who got annoyed at how much badly written law was being pushed through because no-one bothered to read it. I hope the Mençéi intends to take this Committee more seriously.

[esbornatfiglheu]

For future reference, I'd like a consensus from the other members on the broader question that arose:

We should lay some ground rules as to what "the CRL giving its recommendation" under El Lex H.6.6. Does this mean we have to have a 2/3 majority on an official report back? Or something looser, i.e. all 3 of us or maybe even just 2 of us having our say?

Honestly, I'd say if 2 members weigh in with either a "yup, all good" or "fix XYZ" (and then fixes are made), that should be sufficient.  After all, we're not after substantive stuff (insofar as semantics in law & legislation can not be substantive) here, that's for the Ziu itself to decide.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I'm sorry to hear you don't feel that the job of legislative proofreading is an important one. I thought I remembered you being the guy who got annoyed at how much badly written law was being pushed through because no-one bothered to read it. I hope the Mençéi intends to take this Committee more seriously.

Much of the problem with bad legislation is caused by (among other things) groupthink and the deferral of decisionmaking away from the actual legislative chamber, and the solution is not any kind of legislative babysitter.  I will continue to assist with it, and I set it up and got it running in a professional manner since it's my duty, but you should not be surprised that I still oppose this sort of program.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Much of the problem with bad legislation is caused by (among other things) groupthink and the deferral of decisionmaking away from the actual legislative chamber

That sounds intriguing, please expand on your thoughts

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Here's a bill for review: https://wittenberg.talossa.com/index.php?topic=1401.0

I think it's fine.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Thanks for bringing that forward, will give it a look-see soon

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

2.8.9 The Finance Minister is empowered to create the Bureau of Corporations, which body shall be responsible for the registration of all Talossan businesses, the enforcement of applicable business laws, and such further tasks as may seem fit by the Ziu.

"Empowered to"? Does that mean they have an option as to whether to do so or not? Why not "shall create", if this is supposed to bind the Government?

Sample articles may be offered at the Bureau's discretion.

Putting a "may" clause in a law makes no sense. If there is no law against "providing sample articles", then logically the Ministry of Finance "may" do that.

This number shall be composed of three digits to indicate the year of registration combined with three digits to indicate the order a business was registered, beginning with 001.

You might emphasise "Talossan year" here?

Changes to this numbering scheme may be made at the discretion of the Bureau, but are discouraged.

It is encouraged for the Bureau to provide a fancy certificate to any registered business.

Statements of "discouragement" or "encouragement" have no place in positive law. Either you are compelling the Ministry of Finance to do something, or it should not be in the bill.

Generally this bill suffers from being an attempt to set Government policy from opposition. The Ziu may very well compel the Government to do things, or to not do things; but laws have no place in attempting to offer suggestions.

[Ian Plätschisch]

I'd like to submit the Seneschal Selection and Reselection Amendment