Second Incorporative Act

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

That is a true statement, but it doesn't answer my question.  If I make the change, will you be voting in favor of the bill or not?

[Üc R. Tärfă]

I can't really tell you: I'm part of a team and we'll decide together as a caucus on what we will do.

What I can tell you is that we don't like excessive bureaucratic structures, especially if they are not really needed. We need "bureaucracy" in some fields to keep the structure going, but I'd say that is generated in response to demand of "order" which could be gradually enlarged as more demand of order is necessary, but I don't believe in the opposite: that an excessive bureaucracy supply could generate demand for it. I do believe that the overall purpose of your bill, which seems to me a pretty big change from what the current law says, can be achieved with less bureaucracy.

And I do know that we don't like laws that "encourages" part of the State to act within their powers and prerogatives.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I can't really tell you: I'm part of a team and we'll decide together as a caucus on what we will do.

That is interesting, although unfortunate; obviously the FDT isn't going to vote for this if you're voting as a bloc, since Dama Miestra doesn't like it. There isn't much reason to change a bill to accommodate your preferences, unless you point out something with which I happen to agree -- you don't have any votes to offer!  That said, your feedback is always welcome, and I'm glad of it, and you have a sharp eye for editing legislation.  Plus, I'm not going to Clark this right now, anyway -- on the Seneschal's request -- so there's a bit more time to fix up the language and make it read more smoothly.

What I can tell you is that we don't like excessive bureaucratic structures, especially if they are not really needed. We need "bureaucracy" in some fields to keep the structure going, but I'd say that is generated in response to demand of "order" which could be gradually enlarged as more demand of order is necessary, but I don't believe in the opposite: that an excessive bureaucracy supply could generate demand for it. I do believe that the overall purpose of your bill, which seems to me a pretty big change from what the current law says, can be achieved with less bureaucracy.

It's barely a change at all from the current law in terms of bureaucracy.  The minister is still just making a public list, but this one is a list of licenses, rather than an advertising list.  The only additional bureaucratic elements are sending the license information to the business, as well as possibly keeping track of articles of incorporation.  Heck, it doesn't even mandate this, so it's arguably less bureaucracy... right now I'm required to make a public list of businesses, even though it's empty since no one's used this provision at any point since it was created three years ago.

[Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB]

Doing fancy official registrations of things is fun and cool.  So far the slash-and-burn policy hasn't exactly been paying us dividends, so maybe we should try to encourage people to do fun and cool things, instead.

I haven't really been paying attention to all the back and forth, but I'm curious if you even had any ideas what kind of businesses might even be viable in Talossa. What kind of fun and cool things do you imagine or dream of?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

What an awesome question!

So obviously, my first thoughts would go to the companies that previously registered: Beric'ht Talossan, the newspaper I used to run, and MPF's web business that he was trying to make friendly to Talossans in particular.  Those are actually two good examples of the most likely possibilities: businesses that are entirely local to Talossan interests, and those which are Talossa-adjacent.

What could that look like?
- An enterprising person who starts making and selling Talossan flags.
- Someone who wants to start an NGO in the country -- maybe a private version of BHAID or SIGN -- with publicly verifiable articles of incorporation, and wants that official sanction to reassure donors or create structure.  There can't be dispute about the agreed terms under which they will operate if those terms are registered officially with the government.
- An author who writes their own books, directly selling and shipping autographed copies to Talossans as a small business, and who wants to promote that business within our small market (and potentially larger exposure to the world, someday soon).

And that's just off the top of my head!

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Anyone who thinks that things like the above is "fun and cool" probably also has an intense love of vanilla.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

There isn't much reason to change a bill to accommodate your preferences, unless you point out something with which I happen to agree -- you don't have any votes to offer!

I'd rather say the contrary: we have many votes, especially in the Senäts  ;)

Plus, I'm not going to Clark this right now, anyway -- on the Seneschal's request -- so there's a bit more time to fix up the language and make it read more smoothly.

So maybe there's room for changes, isn't it?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

There isn't much reason to change a bill to accommodate your preferences, unless you point out something with which I happen to agree -- you don't have any votes to offer!

I'd rather say the contrary: we have many votes, especially in the Senäts  ;)

That's great to hear! If you can make a deal on behalf of your whole party like that, then I'll be very happy to work towards a bill you can support.

[Üc R. Tärfă]

You know what our concerns are, try to come up with a more palatable version, and we will see if there are margins to find a compromise.

The fact that no-one used that provision in 3 years is a good example of the fact that maybe there's no demand for that? And increasing the bureaucracy behind it it's the contrary to encourage people. I don't see any private ongoing initiative that can be an "enterprise" which justify the need of that structure... so I don't really see any real reasons why we should do that.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

You know what our concerns are, try to come up with a more palatable version, and we will see if there are margins to find a compromise.

Just so there's no unfortunate misunderstandings, are you saying that you can indeed make a deal on behalf of your whole party, if we figure out a compromise that is to your liking?

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

The circumstances under which the Party President can "whip" the Free Democrats caucus in the Ziu into voting as a bloc are given in FreeDems Constitution Section XII. But short of that, of course the Party Leader is entitled to negotiate on behalf of the party, subject to ratification of his approach in internal discussions.

The Free Democrats of Talossa are very conscious that - assuming we work as a team - no legislation can be passed against our wishes in this Cosa.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Then I guess you have your answer, Uc.  If you guys are going to vote against this as a bloc, then there's not any real reason to accommodate your preferences.  Better to try to pass legislation that I like and that appeals to voters, instead.  It's not possible to compromise with the uncompromising.

Again, I love any and all feedback, especially to improve form and function.  Even if I don't agree with all of it, I try to always keep an open mind.  If necessary, I'll change a bill, delay it, or yank it entirely!  Sometimes there are clever orthogonal solutions that only arise when there's a sharp discussion on an issue.  So I hope that you will still offer your thoughts and opinions on bills, even if a compromise isn't possible on your end.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Look, any time you want to pass a law to enact "fun and cool" things that don't involve setting up a form-filling bureaucracy and imposing more work on Government and Civil Service officials, we're all ears

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

It's true: my proposal would have probably led to more work for future Ministers of Finance.  No minister has ever had to spend a moment on adding a business to the Register of Talossan Businesses, after all.

Anyway, this is moot for the time being.  A new version is being worked up.