Talossan Empathy Network - Mental Health Support Group

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Miestra, thank you for explaining. I am sorry that my words have led you to feel unsafe. Of course, I disagree that my reactions to Txoteu's threat were an overreaction. But, again in the absence of explanation, I can understand your conclusion. The problem is, we don't really know one another, and I am glad that the deficit in mutual understanding is decreasing as a part of this discussion. In my next response, I will explain my perspective on the what and why of what happened.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Reviewing for memory's sake.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Sadly, the questions I raised have never been answered.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Sadly, the questions I raised have never been answered.

If I recall correctly, I think we did engage in a rather long worded additional exchange privately via FB Messenger which had my final message on here as its starting point. I didn't think this left any outstanding questions but am still open. I bumped this as proof there have been good faith initiatives.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I remember that you never responded to my last message, but if you think that it didn't contain anything worth responding to, then we have to leave it there.

On the other hand; some of the issues I covered in the Friendly Chat with Bråneu, specifically about lack of trust, holding grudges, and the combination which has led to the current nasty partisan atmosphere. Maybe they deserve a fresh look.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

I remember that you never responded to my last message, but if you think that it didn't contain anything worth responding to, then we have to leave it there.

On the other hand; some of the issues I covered in the Friendly Chat with Bråneu, specifically about lack of trust, holding grudges, and the combination which has led to the current nasty partisan atmosphere. Maybe they deserve a fresh look.

I think you closed with another appeal on monarchy reform which wasn't the intent of the outreach tbh, Miestra, so I didn't respond. After your fresh look please feel free to let me know if I am mistaken though.

[Ián Tamorán S.H.]

This thread has gone quiet for some time now.

(Note: Below, *I* and *you* are general terms - not references to any specific people other than those in conversation at that time).

Perhaps no-one has any more problems with their mental health and interaction with the universe? Hmmm... unlikely. "Support" and "criticism" are entirely different things, but (alas) the first morphs into the second, all too quickly.

There is a steadfast rule in dealing with someone else's emotional issues which is "If *I* am supporting *you* with empathy, then I must *never* refer back to our past interactions. *Never*". We are, though, members of a group/citizens of a realm that interact with each other freely and often. It is difficult to drop prior associations... but essential. If *you* and *I* have had political conflicts in the past, if *I* think *you* or *your party* did/did not do something with which I disagree(d), if *you* have insulted *me*, or *I* have insulted *you* - all of that is irrelevant here – and should – nay must – be ignored and set asside.

And that rule of "stepping back" applies to dealing with your own problems too, not just other peoples'. Difficult, I know.

If this thread is, however, just another political/power/rhetorical thread, then its demise is (was) inevitable. But if we really – and I mean *really* concerned with Empathy, then we should leave our swords at the door – and our past diaries.

Pax vobiscum...
... and, I hope, see you all again.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

This thread has gone quiet for some time now.

(Note: Below, *I* and *you* are general terms - not references to any specific people other than those in conversation at that time).

Perhaps no-one has any more problems with their mental health and interaction with the universe? Hmmm... unlikely. "Support" and "criticism" are entirely different things, but (alas) the first morphs into the second, all too quickly.

There is a steadfast rule in dealing with someone else's emotional issues which is "If *I* am supporting *you* with empathy, then I must *never* refer back to our past interactions. *Never*". We are, though, members of a group/citizens of a realm that interact with each other freely and often. It is difficult to drop prior associations... but essential. If *you* and *I* have had political conflicts in the past, if *I* think *you* or *your party* did/did not do something with which I disagree(d), if *you* have insulted *me*, or *I* have insulted *you* - all of that is irrelevant here – and should – nay must – be ignored and set asside.

And that rule of "stepping back" applies to dealing with your own problems too, not just other peoples'. Difficult, I know.

If this thread is, however, just another political/power/rhetorical thread, then its demise is (was) inevitable. But if we really – and I mean *really* concerned with Empathy, then we should leave our swords at the door – and our past diaries.

Pax vobiscum...
... and, I hope, see you all again.

Thank you for your contribution. This group remains open for all who wish to participate. Pontificating is considered participation based on your recent contribution. And if further pontificating is your desire I look forward to your next contribution, Ian.

[King Txec]

I don't know if I've responded in this thread before, and with post-election matters I haven't looked :-)

My take on empathy is that each of us needs to consider not only our own feelings and mental needs but those of others. Much of the discourse on Wittenberg is adversarial, which is good for politics. However, that adversarial nature also turns away those of us who have way too much to deal with in our own personal lives. Breneir, for example, I know you've gone through a very rough patch as of late and you have my empathy. You are valuable. We all are. I've struggled in recent days as well with the death of a beloved uncle, the long-term hospitalization of an elderly parent, and the demands of a job that I sometimes view with trepidation as society changes and at my age I find difficult to adapt to. All of us deserve the consideration and empathy of each other, if we are to have a healthy community.

I don't even know if my post was off=topic, but it is what it is.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

I don't know if I've responded in this thread before, and with post-election matters I haven't looked :-)

My take on empathy is that each of us needs to consider not only our own feelings and mental needs but those of others. Much of the discourse on Wittenberg is adversarial, which is good for politics. However, that adversarial nature also turns away those of us who have way too much to deal with in our own personal lives. Breneir, for example, I know you've gone through a very rough patch as of late and you have my empathy. You are valuable. We all are. I've struggled in recent days as well with the death of a beloved uncle, the long-term hospitalization of an elderly parent, and the demands of a job that I sometimes view with trepidation as society changes and at my age I find difficult to adapt to. All of us deserve the consideration and empathy of each other, if we are to have a healthy community.

I don't even know if my post was off=topic, but it is what it is.

Well stated and thank you.
Txec, you have my empathy too. I know it doesn't seem like it but I think you do a great job as SOS. Especially considering the recent personal difficulties you mention and the onerous responsibilities of the job. We have been at loggerheads in the past but those are principle-based discussions and not a product of personal animosity.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Thank you for your contribution. This group remains open for all who wish to participate. Pontificating is considered participation based on your recent contribution. And if further pontificating is your desire I look forward to your next contribution, Ian.

See, this is the problem, Brenéir. I read your response to Ián above as hostility and dismissal masked in polite-sounding language ("pontificating" is a pejorative), and I feel that that contradicts your stated wish for "empathy".  At the moment, I don't have confidence that people in here can disagree with you without an icy put-down, or at best a cold acknowledgement with no empathy behind it, in response.

Honestly, I strongly believe that any group such as this will go nowhere unless it adopts the principles of Non-Violent Communication or something similar.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Thank you for your contribution. This group remains open for all who wish to participate. Pontificating is considered participation based on your recent contribution. And if further pontificating is your desire I look forward to your next contribution, Ian.

See, this is the problem, Brenéir. I read your response to Ián above as hostility and dismissal masked in polite-sounding language ("pontificating" is a pejorative), and I feel that that contradicts your stated wish for "empathy".  At the moment, I don't have confidence that people in here can disagree with you without an icy put-down, or at best a cold acknowledgement with no empathy behind it, in response.

Honestly, I strongly believe that any group such as this will go nowhere unless it adopts the principles of Non-Violent Communication or something similar.

I remember that you never responded to my last message, but if you think that it didn't contain anything worth responding to, then we have to leave it there.

On the other hand; some of the issues I covered in the Friendly Chat with Bråneu, specifically about lack of trust, holding grudges, and the combination which has led to the current nasty partisan atmosphere. Maybe they deserve a fresh look.

I think you closed with another appeal on monarchy reform which wasn't the intent of the outreach tbh, Miestra, so I didn't respond. After your fresh look please feel free to let me know if I am mistaken though.

Miestra, I thought my lack of response to your appeal on Monarchy Reform during our last private conversation was the problem. I think you find what you want to see.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Well, I just looked it up and - as I suspected - that is *not* what the main subject of my last message to you was. It was the second of three themes of that last message, and it was mentioned "in passing". The first and last themes of that message concerned other Talossans. The first concerned someone whom you blamed me for protecting the bad behaviour of. The last concerned someone whom I blamed you for protecting the bad behaviour of. I've got the screenshots downloaded, but I'm not going to publish them (without severe provocation) because I don't want those other Talossans dragged into this argument.

I repeat that I don't think an Empathy group can work unless everyone feels that they won't be attacked or spoken to/about in a way that will make them feel shamed or angry. I honestly feel that the way you address Ián Tamoran was rude, which makes me feel that I can't trust you to be Empathetic if you get annoyed with someone.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Well, I just looked it up and - as I suspected - that is *not* what the main subject of my last message to you was. It was the second of three themes of that last message, and it was mentioned "in passing". The first and last themes of that message concerned other Talossans. The first concerned someone whom you blamed me for protecting the bad behaviour of. The last concerned someone whom I blamed you for protecting the bad behaviour of. I've got the screenshots downloaded, but I'm not going to publish them (without severe provocation) because I don't want those other Talossans dragged into this argument.

I repeat that I don't think an Empathy group can work unless everyone feels that they won't be attacked or spoken to/about in a way that will make them feel shamed or angry. I honestly feel that the way you address Ián Tamoran was rude, which makes me feel that I can't trust you to be Empathetic if you get annoyed with someone.

Miestra, in the same way you are telling me that how I spoke to Ian was rude I am telling you that what I took away from your final message was an ask to continue working on monarchy reform. You can post screenshots if you want but that does not change what I took from your message any more than an apology from me (of which there have been several) would change your outlook on this group.

Also, I don't consider this an argument. You are expressing your feelings and I am responding to those expressions. We have long established that we don't trust one another.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Okay; well, I am not looking for an apology from you right now. The issue is that when I talk about "the issues raised in my last message" I am *not* referring to the very brief suggestion that you should talk to Ian Plätschisch about monarchy reform (that ship has sailed, for the coming term at least). I am referring to the following aspect:

1. I gave my explanation why I had defended/protected X person whom you felt had behaved impermissibly towards you.
2. I then went on to explain the problem with how you supported and defended Y person who had behaved badly towards me. This was the part which stuck in my craw that you did not respond to.

The problem with Talossan partisanship is precisely that we form "teams" and things that members of our own "team" do can always be justified because "the other team" deserve it. There is no hope for Empathy unless *everyone* is prepared to climb down off the partisanship and listen to/acknowledge the hurt that "our team" has caused the other.