Talossan Music Top 20 Special Edition! 2022

[Glüc]

So we have 12+1 potential categories so far. 1,5 day left to nominate categories.

[Glüc]

Changed my final category proposal to French language

[Glüc]

Music from Liechtenstein

So I'm afraid this isn't going to work because we need to be able to nominate 25 songs later and I expect nobody other than you knows any music from Liechtenstein (and to be honest, if you know 25 songs from Liechtenstein I'd be very impressed), but you do still have 2 categories left, so if you want to, maybe you could amend it to something like "music from countries with fewer than a million people". Still challenging, but between Iceland and Barbados it might be doable. Or maybe "music from landlocked countries", although in that case I suspect we're gonna have a lot of Falco again. Up to you of course.

[Bråneu Excelsio, UrN]

Songs which title and band name don't have the letter E on it sounds like fun.

[Glüc]

Right, nominations for categories are closed.

These are the nominations:

- A Capella music
- Christmas music
- Classical music to have dinner to in the last day of Earth
- Comedy music
- Electronic Music
- Eurovision nominated songs
- French language songs
- Jazz
- Hip Hop / Rap
- Rhythm & Blues
- Ska or Reggae
- Songs which title and band name don't have the letter E on it
- World

We're gonna vote using STV*, but in order to make it a little more balanced, everyone who nominated gets two votes. One for their own noms and one for the other categories. This sounds (and probably is) needlessly complicated, but it's fair I think and the voting isn't that difficult.

Voting instructions:

a) If you nominated multiple categories:
- Rank your own nominated categories
- Rank at least five other categories

b) If you nominated one category:
- Cast a vote for your own nomination (optional)
- Rank at least five other categories

c) If you didn't nominate any category:
- Rank at least five categories

Deadline: exactly 4 days from now: 12 october 18:34 CET

* fractional transfers, random tiebreaker, quota = (valid votes/6)

[Glüc]

My own vote:

Own nominations:
1. Ska/Reggae
2. Hiphop
3. French

Other nominations:
1. Eurovision
2. Comedy
3. World
4. Christmas
5. Electronic
6. No Letter E

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

1. World
2. Jazz
3. R&B

1. Classical music to have dinner to in the last day of Earth
2. Comedy music
3. Electronic Music
4. French
5. Eurovision

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

1. Electronic
2. Comedy
3. A Capella

1. Christmas
2. Eurovision
3. No E
4. Hip Hop / Rap
5. World
6. French
7. Jazz

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

My humble opinion is that STV is not the greatest method when there are more options than voters.

[Bråneu Excelsio, UrN]

My nominations:
1. Classical music to have dinner to in the last day of Earth
2. Songs which title and band name don't have the letter E on it

---

1. Electronic Music
2. Comedy music
3. Rhythm & Blues
4. Ska or Reggae
5. Christmas music

[Tric’hard Lenxheir]

My own nomination

Christmas

Others

R&B/Blues
Jazz
A Capella
Final days
Letter E

[Glüc]

My humble opinion is that STV is not the greatest method when there are more options than voters.

Well you're not wrong, which is partly why I included the double vote thing. My main reasoning is that stv reduces wasted votes, also I kinda wanted to try it as an experiment.

Anyway, I did a mock stv run and I came to the conclusion that the rules need a bit of patching up to fix some of the imbalances.

So three rule changes/clarifications with regards to the counting (THIS DOES NOT AFFECT THE VOTING OR THE VOTES CAST SO FAR)

1. For tiebreaker, before we get to random chances we go down the list of preferences for the second, third etc preferences among the tied categories (so just the order of the tied categories. The nominal preference value doesnt matter), weighted by the transfer value of the vote (so the weight of the votes are the same as for the first preference)

2. To get selected a category needs to exceed the quotum. So 1/6th exactly is not enough.

3. For each combination of votes the second vote gets added to the bottom of the first and vice versa, in order to prevent too many votes from being exhausted.

This all sounds way too complicated, but as said it doesnt affect the voting, so you can all free feel to ignore it. I will post the calculation once the voting is done.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

Specifically, my concern is that comedy music currently would not qualify despite getting a second place vote from all but one voter, because seven genres already have at least one first place vote.

[Glüc]

Specifically, my concern is that comedy music currently would not qualify despite getting a second place vote from all but one voter, because seven genres already have at least one first place vote.

I feel that's overstating it a bit. Either you consider the votes as separate, in which case 4 out 10 votes had comedy in second place, or you don't, in which case it's realistically only most peoples 3rd, 4th or 5th preference. And it's not like a single first place for a category is gonna be enough either.

Already everyone gets two first choices. I feel like we should prioritise selecting at least a significant proportion of those.

[xpb]

I neglected to nominate any, but here are 5 choices
1. Classical music to have dinner to in the last day of Earth (easy choice if you read the novel Seveneves by Stephenson)
2. Comedy music
3. Ska or Reggae
4. a Capella music
5. Jazz

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

Specifically, my concern is that comedy music currently would not qualify despite getting a second place vote from all but one voter, because seven genres already have at least one first place vote.

I feel that's overstating it a bit. Either you consider the votes as separate, in which case 4 out 10 votes had comedy in second place, or you don't, in which case it's realistically only most peoples 3rd, 4th or 5th preference. And it's not like a single first place for a category is gonna be enough either.

Already everyone gets two first choices. I feel like we should prioritise selecting at least a significant proportion of those.

You are correct that STV is the best method for prioritizing first preferences. I don't want it to come off that I'm just trying to advance my own nominations :P

[Sir Lüc]

Own:
1. Eurovision

Others's:
1. Classical music to have dinner to in the last day of Earth (I swear if someone nominates Wagner...)
2. Songs which title and band name don't have the letter E on it
3. Ska or Reggae
4. Comedy music
5. World
6. A Capella music
7. Jazz
8. Electronic Music
9. French language songs
10. Rhythm & Blues
11. Hip Hop / Rap
12. Christmas music

[Glüc]

Category vote is closed.

[Glüc]

I will post the full calculation here, but I think the following categories are through:


- Christmas music
- Classical music to have dinner to in the last day of Earth
- Comedy music
- Electronic Music
- Eurovision nominated songs

So yeah, Comedy music appears to have made it even without any first preferences.

We will start with Classical music to have dinner to in the last day of Earth. I will make a separate thread for nominations.

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

I have to eat crow on this one; I did not realize that one feature of STV (as opposed to vanilla IRV) is the transfer of surplus votes.