[CRL] The Hand Of The King Needs No Glove Puppet Amendment

Started by Miestră Schivă, UrN, October 03, 2023, 06:54:04 PM

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Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

#15
Quote from: Sir Lüc on October 06, 2023, 05:48:28 AM
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on October 05, 2023, 08:59:21 AMI do not think it's a good idea to start the term by reducing the powers of the king.

I think you'd be welcome to privately suggest to John he should consider reviving Cunstavals on his own accord, much like you/he did with the Privy Council, in which case this bill would be entirely moot :)

(Of course, the important matter is that the Privy Council is only useful to him, while Cunstavals (should) perform important Organic functions in their own provinces.)

He actually must have been reading this stuff or heard about it, even though I've been scrambling with too much other stuff to bug him, since he emailed me a couple of nights ago and mentioned his intention to appoint some new cunstavais.  The basic problem is 100% correct: we should have active cunstavais.  They're one of those things like the Senate Committee on Rules and Administration that just gets overlooked when it comes to regular maintenance and attention, since they don't see that much action. 

Really, it's on Txec and I, who should be more on-the-ball about it... monitoring and recommending appointments like that are one of the jobs we're supposed to be doing!  The Sabor should maybe get slightly bigger, though, since Txec and I both already have a ton of stuff going on in Talossa.  When I first took the position, I wasn't anticipating returning to partisan politics.

I do think there might be good stuff here in this bill and changes we might want to make, though, Luc.  I'm going to take XPB's suggestion for now and just agree to disagree for the moment, but this general topic is something we should come back to.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan


Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN

#16
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on October 06, 2023, 06:10:30 AM
Quote from: Sir Lüc on October 06, 2023, 05:48:28 AM
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on October 05, 2023, 08:59:21 AMI do not think it's a good idea to start the term by reducing the powers of the king.

I think you'd be welcome to privately suggest to John he should consider reviving Cunstavals on his own accord, much like you/he did with the Privy Council, in which case this bill would be entirely moot :)

(Of course, the important matter is that the Privy Council is only useful to him, while Cunstavals (should) perform important Organic functions in their own provinces.)

He actually must have been reading this stuff or heard about it, even though I've been scrambling with too much other stuff to bug him, since he emailed me a couple of nights ago and mentioned his intention to appoint some new cunstavais.  The basic problem is 100% correct: we should have active cunstavais.  They're one of those things like the Senate Committee on Rules and Administration that just gets overlooked when it comes to regular maintenance and attention, since they don't see that much action. 

Really, it's on Txec and I, who should be more on-the-ball about it... monitoring and recommending appointments like that are one of the jobs we're supposed to be doing!  The Sabor should maybe get slightly bigger, though, since Txec and I both already have a ton of stuff going on in Talossa.  When I first took the position, I wasn't anticipating returning to partisan politics.

I do think there might be good stuff here in this bill and changes we might want to make, though, Luc.  I'm going to take XPB's suggestion for now and just agree to disagree for the moment, but this general topic is something we should come back to.
One idea might be to have some Guaïrs that are ex officio examples being some of the following:  PM, Leader of the Opposition, SoS, Túischac'h, Mençei, Senior Justice/Justices, Constables etc...
Litz Cjantscheir LLB, LLM
Senior Justice/Judge of the Cort Pü Inalt

Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB

I've been acting in my role on the Privy Council and advising the king of the need to work on the issue. I only brought up Vuode for starters, but it also appears that Florencia is in need also.

If there was any law on the matter, I would think the best course would be some rule on inactivity, perhaps similar to judges to prevent the problem we now have.
Sir Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, UrB, GST, O.SPM, SMM
Secretár d'Estat
Guaír del Sabor Talossan
The Squirrel Viceroy of Arms, The Rouge Elephant Herald, RTCoA
Cunstaval da Vuode
Justice Emeritus of the Uppermost Cort
Former Seneschal

Miestră Schivă, UrN

I mean, let's go back to basic principles. Why do we need Cunstaváis? Some federal parliamentary democracies have separate "heads of state" for the various states/provinces (Canada, Australia); others don't (India). Why does the King need "glove puppets" in every Province? Why can't he do it himself, or why can't we shift the default to he does it himself unless there's a good reason to appoint a (term limited) representative?

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mximo

#19
Bureaucracy in action. I don't really understand why it's difficult to name people. There is a fear here that the monarchy is losing power with this amendement, yet the debate here is precisely about the lack of response to exercise of power. The province of Florencia needs an appointment of a governor by the Constable or the King following its constitution. Why this debate or even more the need to change the constitution of the realm when the solution is simple: Appoint someone.



Mximo Carbonèl
Mximo Carbonèl
Florencia Senator

Breneir Tzaracomprada

Quote from: Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN on October 06, 2023, 08:02:05 AM
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on October 06, 2023, 06:10:30 AM
Quote from: Sir Lüc on October 06, 2023, 05:48:28 AM
Quote from: Baron Alexandreu Davinescu on October 05, 2023, 08:59:21 AMI do not think it's a good idea to start the term by reducing the powers of the king.

I think you'd be welcome to privately suggest to John he should consider reviving Cunstavals on his own accord, much like you/he did with the Privy Council, in which case this bill would be entirely moot :)

(Of course, the important matter is that the Privy Council is only useful to him, while Cunstavals (should) perform important Organic functions in their own provinces.)

He actually must have been reading this stuff or heard about it, even though I've been scrambling with too much other stuff to bug him, since he emailed me a couple of nights ago and mentioned his intention to appoint some new cunstavais.  The basic problem is 100% correct: we should have active cunstavais.  They're one of those things like the Senate Committee on Rules and Administration that just gets overlooked when it comes to regular maintenance and attention, since they don't see that much action. 

Really, it's on Txec and I, who should be more on-the-ball about it... monitoring and recommending appointments like that are one of the jobs we're supposed to be doing!  The Sabor should maybe get slightly bigger, though, since Txec and I both already have a ton of stuff going on in Talossa.  When I first took the position, I wasn't anticipating returning to partisan politics.

I do think there might be good stuff here in this bill and changes we might want to make, though, Luc.  I'm going to take XPB's suggestion for now and just agree to disagree for the moment, but this general topic is something we should come back to.
One idea might be to have some Guaïrs that are ex officio examples being some of the following:  PM, Leader of the Opposition, SoS, Túischac'h, Mençei, Senior Justice/Justices, Constables etc...

For the record, I support this idea.


Distain, MC
Fighting the good fight

Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB

One main reason why the King appointed two new Cunstaval's is because, in my role as a member of the Privy Council, I realized that Vuode's Cunstaval was super inactive and the provincial government could not function without one. I contacted King John and asked him to appoint one. I didn't anticipate he would select me for the job, but I'm glad he helped with the problem. We do have other provinces (my own, in fact) that are in need of active Cunstaval's, but Vuode's situation was specific because their constitution requires the Cunstaval to perform certain functions. The Cunstaval for Maricopa is much more ceremonial.

Term limits or something like it is probably a good idea. Enlarging the Sabor with some ex-officio offices might be a good idea also, though I do believe that permanent membership should continue to be merit based.
Sir Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, UrB, GST, O.SPM, SMM
Secretár d'Estat
Guaír del Sabor Talossan
The Squirrel Viceroy of Arms, The Rouge Elephant Herald, RTCoA
Cunstaval da Vuode
Justice Emeritus of the Uppermost Cort
Former Seneschal

Breneir Tzaracomprada

Quote from: Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB on January 09, 2024, 11:24:07 AMOne main reason why the King appointed two new Cunstaval's is because, in my role as a member of the Privy Council, I realized that Vuode's Cunstaval was super inactive and the provincial government could not function without one. I contacted King John and asked him to appoint one. I didn't anticipate he would select me for the job, but I'm glad he helped with the problem. We do have other provinces (my own, in fact) that are in need of active Cunstaval's, but Vuode's situation was specific because their constitution requires the Cunstaval to perform certain functions. The Cunstaval for Maricopa is much more ceremonial.

Term limits or something like it is probably a good idea. Enlarging the Sabor with some ex-officio offices might be a good idea also, though I do believe that permanent membership should continue to be merit based.

Thank you Txec, these are excellent points.


Distain, MC
Fighting the good fight

Miestră Schivă, UrN

I'm glad this idea has been rescued from the bit-bucket. Any chance we can get something together for the next Clark?

PROTECT THE ORGLAW FROM POWER GRABS - NO POLITICISED KING! Vote THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA
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"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Miestră Schivă, UrN

WHEREAS Cunstaváis serve for an indefinite term, which encourages a do-nothing attitude:

BE IT ENACTED that Organic Law XI.4 be amended from the current:

QuoteThe King shall appoint a Cunstavál (or Constable) for each Province. Until such time as the King or Cunstavál proclaims a provincial constitution providing otherwise, a Province's Cunstavál shall serve as Military Governor and may exercise all the powers of the provincial government. No Cunstavál shall proclaim any provincial constitution, nor shall any province pass a constitutional amendment, which conflicts with any provision of this Organic Law or with any other national law, or grants to the Cunstavál royal powers less extensive than those granted to the King on the national level (except that the provincial royal powers need not include a right of dissolution if provincial elections are held concurrently with Cosâ elections). No Cunstavál shall proclaim any provincial constitution which has not been approved by a referendum in which at least either a majority of all citizens of the province or a two-thirds majority of votes actually cast is in favor of the constitution. No person shall be at the same time Cunstavál of one province and the leader of the provincial government of another province.

to read in its entirety as follows:

Quote1. Every royal power that the King possesses as granted by this Organic Law shall also apply to the provincial governments; with the exception that the provincial royal powers need not include a right of dissolution if provincial elections are held concurrently with Cosâ elections.

2. The King may appoint a Cunstavál (or Constable) for any Province to exercise these powers on his behalf, for a term not exceeding three years. The King may reappoint a Cunstavál. The terms of existing Cunstaváis shall expire no later than three years after the adoption of this amendment.

3. Until such time as the King or Cunstavál proclaims a provincial constitution providing otherwise, the King or Cunstavál shall serve as Military Governor and may exercise all the powers of the provincial government.

4. The King or Cunstavál shall not proclaim any provincial constitution, nor shall any province pass a constitutional amendment, which conflicts with any provision of this Organic Law or with any other national law.

5. The King or Cunstavál shall not proclaim any provincial constitution which has not been approved by a referendum in which at least either a majority of all citizens of the province or a two-thirds majority of votes actually cast is in favor of the constitution.

6. No person shall be at the same time Cunstavál of one province and the leader of the provincial government of another province.

PROTECT THE ORGLAW FROM POWER GRABS - NO POLITICISED KING! Vote THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA
¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Miestră Schivă, UrN


PROTECT THE ORGLAW FROM POWER GRABS - NO POLITICISED KING! Vote THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA
¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Sir Lüc

Sir Lüc da Schir, UrB
Directeur Sportif, Gordon Hiatus Support Team

In my free time:
Túischac'h dal Cosă / Speaker of the Cosa
Wittmeister & Permanent Secretary of Backend Admin / Secretar Parmanint per l'Aðmistraziun del Backend
Deputy Scribe of Abbavilla / Distain Grefieir d'Abbavillă

Sir Lüc

(Can I ask you to edit the original comment to reflect the latest version, @Miestră Schivă, UrN  ?)
Sir Lüc da Schir, UrB
Directeur Sportif, Gordon Hiatus Support Team

In my free time:
Túischac'h dal Cosă / Speaker of the Cosa
Wittmeister & Permanent Secretary of Backend Admin / Secretar Parmanint per l'Aðmistraziun del Backend
Deputy Scribe of Abbavilla / Distain Grefieir d'Abbavillă

Miestră Schivă, UrN

Quote from: Sir Lüc on January 24, 2024, 05:46:49 PM(Can I ask you to edit the original comment to reflect the latest version, @Miestră Schivă, UrN  ?)

If by that you mean "the first post in the thread", then that's done; but I'm not sure this is a good thing to do in future because it falsifies the historical record

PROTECT THE ORGLAW FROM POWER GRABS - NO POLITICISED KING! Vote THE FREE DEMOCRATS OF TALOSSA
¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan

Sir Lüc

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN on January 24, 2024, 05:54:18 PM
Quote from: Sir Lüc on January 24, 2024, 05:46:49 PM(Can I ask you to edit the original comment to reflect the latest version, @Miestră Schivă, UrN  ?)

If by that you mean "the first post in the thread", then that's done; but I'm not sure this is a good thing to do in future because it falsifies the historical record

You're not wrong, but otherwise there'd be no way to reliably know what the current working draft is. It's an unfortunate byproduct of our very informal way of doing things.

(There's certainly a discussion to be had on what the draft-to-Clark pipeline should look like in the CRL era so we can strike a balance between clarity, complexity and preservation of all stages of debate.)
Sir Lüc da Schir, UrB
Directeur Sportif, Gordon Hiatus Support Team

In my free time:
Túischac'h dal Cosă / Speaker of the Cosa
Wittmeister & Permanent Secretary of Backend Admin / Secretar Parmanint per l'Aðmistraziun del Backend
Deputy Scribe of Abbavilla / Distain Grefieir d'Abbavillă