[PASSED] The Vacant Throne (We Really Mean Business Now) Amendment

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu · April 20, 2024, 10:16:22 PM

Okay, Passover was a lot this year - sorry about the wait. Taking concerns as they came:

* I have added in a sunset clause as per previous discussion. It is at the end of the bill. I have tried to render it in a dignified way that is also legally effective, but it's tricky to write contingencies... please take a look at it!
* The text of the bill would not disqualify the Secretary of State, unless someone wanted to remain in office as Secretary of State and run their own election. If someone were told before a convocation that they would likely be nominated, then they would be well-advised to take the two-week grace period to resign so someone else could be appointed to run the election. This overall feature is not something that can be avoided, since obviously the person counting a secret ballot shouldn't be eligible to win the ballot if it's feasible. I have added a sentence to make this possibility clearer: "If the Secretary of State is entirely unavailable or no longer serving in office, the chair shall be elected by the convocation of succession."
* I have changed the two-thirds language to be more clear -- thank you, that was sloppily phrased.
* I have not made broad changes beyond the scope of what we're discussing, especially when (as Dama Miestra notes) the removal bar is actually higher than what is literally necessary with the process of an amendment. This is a big and complicated thing we're trying to do, achieving broad consensus among many factions, and we shouldn't borrow trouble by making other significant changes. It's hard enough to solve the main issue without adding on other stuff. I beg of you guys: if you have any other pet projects, let's take care of them some other time when we're not restructuring fundamental parts of our nation.
* If there's something I missed, it's not a trick. It's instead that I tried to write a compact, legally sound, unambiguous, and nicely-composed big new chunk of law. Please just help me if I dropped a stitch.

The Succession Amendment and Decree

Whereas, the monarchy is a central pillar of the country and its survival depends on its planned future as well as its activity, and

Whereas, this allows for democratic confirmations without becoming wholesale elections,

THEREFORE, the Ziu directs that Article II of the Organic Law, which currently read:

shall be amended to read as follows:

FURTHERMORE, the Ziu decrees, effective thirty days from the ratification of this amendment by the people and effective only if there is no nominee for Heir Presumptive before the Ziu, that the throne is vacant as though King John I had abdicated, and King John I is once more an ordinary citizen, with all of the rights and privileges of the same, released from his office and his duties with the nation's gratitude for his long service. The Secretary of State is directed to begin immediate preparations for a convocation of succession.

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu · April 20, 2024, 10:23:41 PM

In my opinion, my language for the convocation is better because it's a much much better safeguard against corruption. A purely majoritarian process almost always turns into a hyperpartisan atmosphere. And while that would benefit someone like me who's a loudmouth about stuff, I think it's much better to have set checks and safeguards on the process -- such as a designated apolitical chair and a designed check on that chair's power. Remember that we should be thinking when we're making a new process: how could someone break this?

Breneir Tzaracomprada · April 20, 2024, 10:40:56 PM

I like this approach from Miestra. Just reduce the involvement of the SoS to the logistics of assembling the convocation. And then let the convocation elect its own chair.

But I do not think this is enough of an obstacle for me not to support the larger bill in the absence of opposition by others. It also looks like the planned abdication is now included in the proposal via a decree from the Ziu.

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu · April 20, 2024, 11:03:23 PM

It was a very hard thing to write. This whole thing is just so brutal, after all of these years of service.

Miestră Schivă, UrN · April 20, 2024, 11:04:43 PM

I won't have a careful read/critique of AD's latest proposal until the morning my time to allow others to comment, but doesn't the text of the FURTHERMORE down the bottom say that if an Heir Apparent is selected John still gets to be King?

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu · April 20, 2024, 11:07:56 PM

Yes. I believe I can say without violating any confidences that this would resolve the matter, in toto. You have my word of honour on it.

Do you require instant abdication at that time for your support?

Mic’haglh Autófil, SMC EiP · April 21, 2024, 02:21:11 AM

Minor question: the current text of Org.II.2 contains the clause "The Ziu may establish procedures for when the King fails to perform a duty." I do not see any such equivalent text in the proposed re-write. Is there a reason for this?

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu · April 21, 2024, 09:07:03 AM

No, just an oversight. Thank you! I'll fix it.

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu · April 21, 2024, 03:19:49 PM

The Succession Amendment and Decree

Whereas, the monarchy is a central pillar of the country and its survival depends on its planned future as well as its activity, and

Whereas, this allows for democratic confirmations without becoming wholesale elections,

THEREFORE, the Ziu directs that Article II of the Organic Law, which currently read:

shall be amended to read as follows:

FURTHERMORE, the Ziu decrees, effective thirty days from the ratification of this amendment by the people, that the throne is vacant as though King John I had abdicated, and King John I is once more an ordinary citizen, with all of the rights and privileges of the same, released from his office and his duties with the nation's gratitude for his long service. The Secretary of State is directed to begin immediate preparations for a convocation of succession.

Miestră Schivă, UrN · April 21, 2024, 08:45:57 PM

After discussion with the Free Democrats, I am moved to accept AD's text as a whole, but I'm still not 100% happy with section 8. The best critique I've heard is the large burden of work this puts on the SoS to organise the Convocation, both writing the rules and chairing. So I would like to introduce the following, as well as splitting the text up for easier reading. Note that I also do not see the point of appeal to the CpI (if we allow the Convocation to appoint its own chair) nor involving the chairs of the Houses of the Ziu in the process.

I would be happy to present the text as amended below to the CRL with my blessings. Bolded text is additions by me; underlined text is AD's work shifted around.

Miestră Schivă, UrN · April 21, 2024, 10:39:24 PM

This thread is now 10 days old and therefore the bill (as below) is now ready to be moved to the CRL as far as its proponent/main sponsor is concerned - that being me, because I started the thread, although someone else wrote a complete draft during the process. I understand that there might still be room for debate about the substantive provisions of the bill, and if anyone really wants that to happen, it can happen now. Alternatively, we can move this to the CRL now to check for non sequiturs, typos, and other drafting errors - but keep debating the substantives after it comes back. The big problem is I don't want us to still be butting heads on the substantives in 7 days or so or and in danger of missing the Clark.

BTW, there is a problem that, as far as I read El Lexhatx H.2.2., named sponsors of the bill must be MZs, which would exclude the actual author of most of this text. Am I reading that right or can Baron Davinescù's name go on it (if he would be happy to do so given that I've made crucial edits)?

===

The Succession Amendment and Decree

Whereas, the monarchy is a central pillar of the country and its survival depends on its planned future as well as its activity, and

Whereas, this allows for democratic confirmations without leading to possibly politicised elections,

THEREFORE, the Ziu directs that Article II of the Organic Law, which currently reads:

shall be amended to read as follows:

FURTHERMORE, the Ziu decrees, effective thirty days from the ratification of this amendment by the people, that the throne is vacant as though King John I had abdicated, and King John I is once more an ordinary citizen, with all of the rights and privileges of the same, released from his office and his duties with the nation's gratitude for his long service. The Secretary of State is directed to begin immediate preparations for a convocation of succession.

Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB · April 22, 2024, 05:39:49 AM

Unfortunately under OrgLaw VII.5, only a member of the Cosa, a Senator, the King or the Secretary of State can submit legislative proposals. El Lex H.2.2 does allow all citizens to draft legislation, but it must be sponsored by one of this mentioned in OrgLaw.

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu · April 22, 2024, 08:36:13 AM

Here is a version with your changes, Miestra, but incorporated in the traditional style. The only thing I removed was this: "These proposed rules and procedures may be set by law or drawn up at the Secretary of State's discretion."

It is important that we not let the legislature meddle in this, inasmuch as we are able. It should be a process set aside, as much as possible. I do think it'd be a good idea to immediately draw up some suggested rules and procedures, though. I already had in mind that basically the traditional rules of order could be followed -- familiar to anyone who's ever run a meeting or participated in a legislature that used them. I'd be happy to take a crack at it next month, if that'd be amenable to Txec.

Beyond that, I would politely request that we really do need someone else to keep an eye on the voting. If not the heads of the legislature, maybe the CpI? We simply can't have a secret ballot for something so important that relies entirely on the absolute honesty of one person. This is no reflection on anyone personally, but it's just good governance not to trust anyone so much.

The Succession Amendment and Decree

Whereas, the monarchy is a central pillar of the country and its survival depends on its planned future as well as its activity, and

Whereas, this allows for democratic confirmations without becoming wholesale elections,

THEREFORE, the Ziu directs that Article II of the Organic Law, which currently read:

shall be amended to read as follows:

FURTHERMORE, the Ziu decrees, effective thirty days from the ratification of this amendment by the people, that the throne is vacant as though King John I had abdicated, and King John I is once more an ordinary citizen, with all of the rights and privileges of the same, released from his office and his duties with the nation's gratitude for his long service. The Secretary of State is directed to begin immediate preparations for a convocation of succession.

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu · April 22, 2024, 08:37:30 AM

Oh and also I don't care that I can't sponsor it. It is fine with me if you want to do so, or another MC has also offered to do so.

Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB · April 22, 2024, 03:02:51 PM

Sure, the process should be collaborative. I have some thoughts on the rules, but they aren't fully formed yet.

As for who monitors the votes, why not use the Electoral Commission? We could simply stipulate in the bill that the most recently seated EC are the proctors or some other term overseeing the ballots.

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[PASSED] The Vacant Throne (We Really Mean Business Now) Amendment