Future of the Chancery

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

So essentially the database is one giant complicated system, and our main problem is that we can't really manipulate it to do what we want.  This means that we are increasingly using kludges and occasionally ask for emergency help from someone without enough time to really get involved that much.  To anyone familiar with government software, this is actually a very familiar story!

Now, I propose we engage in a traditional approach from many governments:
1. First, a fact-finding panel composed of twenty-three people in various interest groups, split fairly closely by partisan lean, who will travel to Gstaad for a two-week retreat in order to come up with the process by which we will decide on the next steps for the

Well, actually, let's start by breaking down the use of the database:

• Records
• Voting
• Legislating

The immediate problem is that it's really hard to design a whole new system to do these things without a ton of technical knowledge, and even if we did do that, we'd just be stuck with another giant complicated system that will get gummed-up in short order.  There's no way to make a big complicated thing that isn't big and complicated.

The solution is that we shouldn't be trying to do everything all with the same system.  We should be using different systems for each task.

The obvious objection is that this would make the Chancery an incredibly difficult and exhausting position that no one would ever want.  But aside from the fact that this is already true right now, it's also not correct.  Since even though we have different systems, we can still use the same simple tools to make it work: spreadsheets.

Spreadsheets are essentially just very accessible databases, available to everyone.  They're incredibly low-maintenance, incredibly transparent, and incredibly versatile.  You can pipe the information from a spreadsheet to all kinds of fancy purposes, including glitzy front-ends to present the data in a pretty way.  And if we use a few tricks, we can make them work for these purposes.

Now, obviously we don't want the Chancery in charge of just manually updating everything all of the time.  That'd get very onerous.  I'd suggest that using different implementations of Google Forms is the best approach.  Google Forms can be embedded into webpages, so that we can have a Chancery webpage for Ziu votes.  A member of the Ziu is issued a code for their votes, and then when they want to vote on the Clark, they go to a page and enter their votes for each bill, and then enter their code.  The spreadsheet is programmed with any of a number of relatively simple formulas to match codes up (or reject them) and the results are automatically tabulated on the sheet, and simultaneously automatically transcribed elsewhere for display.

The devil will be in the details, but I think that this will be a system that anyone can learn to manage and most could learn to modify and improve.  And what's more, this would be something that others could make even better -- I'm just a teacher, and so think about what someone who knows more about spreadsheets could do! -- and could build on.

So right now, that's where I'm at.  One big word: "spreadsheets," with hours of thinking and figuring to do.  But updating Infotecă with all of its information takes only about a minute per month... I bet a clever system of automated spreadsheets and forms would at least take no longer than we currently spend on this stuff.

[Carlüs Éovart Vilaçafat]

This is a good idea in principal. Spreadsheets are much more accessible to the average person. But when it comes to automating tasks, most cloud platforms that I'm aware of have limited support for anything less than SQL databases.

I haven't dabbled with Google Forms or anything like that though, so that may help mitigate the manual effort.

[Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB]

I actually at one point started creation of a Google Form and a spreadsheet to do just his. I'll take a look and see if I can find it.

This is the spreadsheet I began working on. It's obviously not accurate as it was just a test but it may be a starting point.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j_xuM5jjRAAwiO_3Ny7fjjHXhenMSZ0gSaj9Flp6cJQ/edit#gid=0

[Sir Lüc]

Oh boy do I have opinions, not all of them positive I'm afraid. (One being that this thread should really be titled "Future of the Database" of course :p)

I hope to have more time to type those out in short order.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Great that this cross-party discussion is happening BEFORE the election, on a matter on which there seems to be cross-party consensus. I don't have anything to offer but I'll be watching with interest.

[Mic’haglh Autófil, SMC EiP]

I actually at one point started creation of a Google Form and a spreadsheet to do just his. I'll take a look and see if I can find it.

This is the spreadsheet I began working on. It's obviously not accurate as it was just a test but it may be a starting point.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j_xuM5jjRAAwiO_3Ny7fjjHXhenMSZ0gSaj9Flp6cJQ/edit#gid=0

I was actually just thinking the other day on how easy it would be to implement something like this as a set of Google Sheets. It would be a lot less centralized, to be sure, and we would likely lose some degree of functionality as a result, but the tradeoff is accessibility for both the SoS as the primary user and anyone who assists in maintaining things. Could also write some macros as well to automate certain tasks, I'm pretty good with that.

It would be a transition that works best in stages, but it can be done. Ideally we find the biggest pain points first.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

This is a good idea in principal. Spreadsheets are much more accessible to the average person. But when it comes to automating tasks, most cloud platforms that I'm aware of have limited support for anything less than SQL databases.

I haven't dabbled with Google Forms or anything like that though, so that may help mitigate the manual effort.

I don't think we'd need to do anything like SQL or the like... the automation I was thinking was more just macros that would process data entered via Forms or directly.

I actually at one point started creation of a Google Form and a spreadsheet to do just his. I'll take a look and see if I can find it.

This is the spreadsheet I began working on. It's obviously not accurate as it was just a test but it may be a starting point.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j_xuM5jjRAAwiO_3Ny7fjjHXhenMSZ0gSaj9Flp6cJQ/edit#gid=0

This is a great start!  I'd actually envisioned something simpler on the back-end, with just rows for votes and whatnot, and then a front-end that presents the data in a nicer way.  But honestly this would also be a completely fine way to do this, if we decide that it's the best path forward.

Oh boy do I have opinions, not all of them positive I'm afraid. (One being that this thread should really be titled "Future of the Database" of course :p)

I hope to have more time to type those out in short order.

No, future of the Chancery is correct.  We're going to input Txec into the spreadsheet too, like TRON.

I actually at one point started creation of a Google Form and a spreadsheet to do just his. I'll take a look and see if I can find it.

This is the spreadsheet I began working on. It's obviously not accurate as it was just a test but it may be a starting point.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j_xuM5jjRAAwiO_3Ny7fjjHXhenMSZ0gSaj9Flp6cJQ/edit#gid=0

I was actually just thinking the other day on how easy it would be to implement something like this as a set of Google Sheets. It would be a lot less centralized, to be sure, and we would likely lose some degree of functionality as a result, but the tradeoff is accessibility for both the SoS as the primary user and anyone who assists in maintaining things. Could also write some macros as well to automate certain tasks, I'm pretty good with that.

It would be a transition that works best in stages, but it can be done. Ideally we find the biggest pain points first.

Yeah, I think we'd probably go through at least one full cycle all the way through, soup to nuts, before we even think about getting rid of the database.  I'm sure we'd love to have your help -- and maybe you can think of stuff to do with Infoteca to make it fancier, too!

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

We're going to input Txec into the spreadsheet too, like TRON.

Featuring a digitized MPF as Master Control

[Mic’haglh Autófil, SMC EiP]

I was actually just thinking the other day on how easy it would be to implement something like this as a set of Google Sheets. It would be a lot less centralized, to be sure, and we would likely lose some degree of functionality as a result, but the tradeoff is accessibility for both the SoS as the primary user and anyone who assists in maintaining things. Could also write some macros as well to automate certain tasks, I'm pretty good with that.

It would be a transition that works best in stages, but it can be done. Ideally we find the biggest pain points first.

Yeah, I think we'd probably go through at least one full cycle all the way through, soup to nuts, before we even think about getting rid of the database.  I'm sure we'd love to have your help -- and maybe you can think of stuff to do with Infoteca to make it fancier, too!

At that point I'm sure we could find a way to integrate it to Infoteca -- creating a data output to match Infoteca's input format, effectively. Might not necessarily make Infoteca fancier, but more automated / less tedious, at least.

We're going to input Txec into the spreadsheet too, like TRON.

Featuring a digitized MPF as Master Control

Alright, but if Daft Punk isn't doing the soundtrack to Talossa Database 2: e-Txec Boogaloo, I don't want any part of it.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

Daft Punk isn't doing the soundtrack to Talossa Database 2: e-Txec Boogaloo, I don't want any part of it.

Wendy Fucking Carlos or GTFO

[Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB]

Yeah I'm not all that excited about becoming Talossa's version of Tron.

[Dame Litz Cjantscheir, UrN]

Yeah I'm not all that excited about becoming Talossa's version of Tron.

I'm sure it'll be fine, what could possibly go wrong 😄


Whilst most of this is above my knowledge base, it's good to see that this discussion has started and the groundwork of some ideas being laid!

[Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB]

I've created a sample Google Form which links to a spreadsheet. The spreadsheet right now uses unique voter id codes to validate each vote.

Here is the sample Form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSemxVuxo5-HOHIUd4uaaXkRSQ7DZ-0ygk-FoveVfGpkUSnyVA/viewform

here is the sample Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19qYcR17_8hZqe4SfZ9IqN9N7JZGVIKavhWc-cnQDVXs/edit?usp=sharing

This was all done thanks to ChatGPT and some time debugging, again thanks to ChatGPT.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

The response validation can also be automated, so no one needs to check to see if their vote was counted.  Forms allows for the use of regular expressions, so you can set up a voting page like this:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdAiEwYmpQwe6MMp76yLrT4NfV0bChL_0Po6CGLXJi4Ozk8vQ/viewform

Notice that it just won't accept answers that don't match the preset security codes I added.  And the form can be set to automatically confirm submitted votes with the respondent.  This is poor security since it can defeated, though -- might need to find better ways.

[Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB]

I can't see how you did that. My attempt does email with a verification of the vote and also emails if the security code is not accepted. It's also more secure because the spreadsheet can be kept private.