Legal Question: Party Lists

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

This is a fairly easy question, but I find myself stumped.  Can anyone point me to the legal provisions governing how many seats an MC can hold?

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

This is a fairly easy question, but I find myself stumped.  Can anyone point me to the legal provisions governing how many seats an MC can hold?

El Lexhatx H.4.1:

4.1. No person shall hold more seats in the Cosă than ten times the total number of seats in the Cosă divided by the number of ballots cast for the Cosa in the most recent General Election, rounded up to the next integer.

So that's 2000/95 rounded up = 22

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Thank you -- yeah, that does seem to be the only thing.  I'll consult with my party leader about what he thinks, but I think that it might be time to challenge whether or not this provision is Organic.  There used to be an Organic provision that allowed for this specifically, but it was removed some time ago, and I can't find any kind of equivalent.  There's something saying that seats must be assigned "in accordance with law," but I think the clear Organic language stating that seats must match the vote as much as possible will override any statute.  I think this statute is probably not going to hold up when challenged.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I would draw your attention to El Lexhatx B.2.3.1.1:

2.3.1.1. The party leader may assign seats to any eligible citizen(s) they see fit, so long as the following criteria are met:

        2.3.1.1.1. The party's internal procedures are followed
        2.3.1.1.2. No one who was not named on the list is assigned more seats than any eligible citizen who was named on the list
        2.3.1.1.3. The total number of seats awarded to those not on the list does not exceed 1/3 of all seats won by the party
        2.3.1.1.4. No person occupies more than the maximum legal number of seats.[112]

There is in short nothing to stop the Progressive Alliance filling all their seats. A party which got 26 votes should not have any trouble finding at least one person willing to hold up to 19 seats.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

We can, yes, but I just wonder if we should. It might be time to challenge that provision. But again, my party leader might not agree. Just thinking.

[King Txec]

We can, yes, but I just wonder if we should. It might be time to challenge that provision. But again, my party leader might not agree. Just thinking.

I believe you are completely wrong and the statute is organic. OrgLaw 4.2.2 states " Each party shall receive a percentage of party seats as equal as possible to its percentage of the popular vote, but each party shall receive a whole number of seats, and in turn, each party shall assign these seats to individuals, in accordance with law." the law here is El Lex 2.3.1.1.

OrgLaw leaves the assigning of seats up to statutory law, and our statutory law defines that process.

-Txec R

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Yes, that's the part I was referencing before, and I just don't think that it can have this effect. That would allow the Ziu - a body which is not in fact empowered to make laws about how our elections are conducted at all - to make a law with majority support saying that seats cannot be assigned to individuals based on all kinds of arbitrary and undemocratic ideas. I think the multiple explicit and clear places where the OrgLaw says that the outcome should match the vote and there aren't restrictions on becoming an MC and so on would control. If I can figure out a scenario for a test case that would also end the party list rule, this might be worth doing.

Actually, as I write that, I do have to reflect that I don't think I have the bandwidth for it right now when I'm trying to focus on language lessons. Maybe it will suffice to say that I think the whole thing is inOrganic and if it ever prevents a party from holding seats, I am happy to offer my services pro bono to argue the case.

[King Txec]

This is where we disagree. I don't see the assigning of seats has anything at all to do with elections but with the moderation of the house itself. Nevertheless, we have bigger issues in the kingdom we should focus on, and I firmly believe the lack of use of Talossan is a huge issue.

-Txec R

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I do not think that the Ziu's power to regulate how it does business extends to overruling the outcome of an election in order to decide who gets to sit in the legislature.

After all, the OrgLaw usually clearly states when the Ziu is able to write statutes on a matter.  Party registration fees are "to be set by law," the number of seats "may be set by law," the apportioning of seats are "set by law," party registration is "defined by law," and so on.

If a simple majority of the Ziu has statutory power to set any rule they wish regarding who is allowed to get seats, then a simple majority -- or the Seneschal and sovereign in themselves -- is actually in control of elections.  I think that's probably wrong and inOrganic.

However, for now I do think I'll just offer, open-ended and without prejudice to person or party, to represent anyone in the future who wishes to challenge these provisions.

[King Txec]

This is a fairly easy question, but I find myself stumped.  Can anyone point me to the legal provisions governing how many seats an MC can hold?

El Lexhatx H.4.1:

4.1. No person shall hold more seats in the Cosă than ten times the total number of seats in the Cosă divided by the number of ballots cast for the Cosa in the most recent General Election, rounded up to the next integer.

So that's 2000/95 rounded up = 22

I always had trouble finding this provision as well!


-Txec R

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I look forward to RETVRNing to the glory days of the blank cheque ballot, where a party which won a majority could assign all its seats to one person and he would effectively be the Cosa for that term, taking Cosa votes on his own and informing everyone of the result later.

[mximo]

Azul,

Before the real cosa with 20 seats , I think the maximum was 35 seats.
They always have been a limit.

Mximo Carbonèl

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Yeah, Mximo's right. I don't think that's ever been the case. I would expect it would still continue to not be the case. There's a huge number of practical reasons to spread seats around.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Before the real cosa with 20 seats , I think the maximum was 35 seats.
They always have been a limit.

Not always. The following quote from the "Big Thick History", page 145:

After all these crises, King Robert decided to take another well-deserved
vacation. His trip to Canada during June and early July (1985) inspired him; a visit
to the Canadian Parliament on Ottawa convinced him that the democratic system
had to be preserved, strengthened and extended in Talossa. On 25 June the
Cosâ (which, since he controlled 70% of it, followed the King wherever he
went), meeting in Toronto, passed an inane resolution condemning terrorism...

[mximo]

Doesnt means he keep 70% of the seats for himself...

But well...



Mximo