Immigration Discussion

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

On one hand: به ملت کوچک ما خوش آمدید.

On the other hand: ChatGPT is getting out of hand to the point where the immigration essay is rapidly becoming pointless.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Marcel points out to me that there are such things as AI detectors, but exactly how can we write their possible use into law? In any case it's usually pretty damn obvious when an immigration essay comes out of one of those

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

I'd support removing the essay and allowing the two-week Witt discussion period serve the same purpose. Maybe we should replace the essay with a set of five basic questions about Talossa? They could still answer these with AI but at least they would learn something basic about the Kingdom as a part of their application. And an 80% required score on those questions would be an objective standard.

Btw @a_afzali azul and welcome, when did you submit your application?

[Barclamïu da Miéletz]

On the other hand: ChatGPT is getting out of hand to the point where the immigration essay is rapidly becoming pointless.

I say that we keep the essay, but, entries made by AI will be denied.

[Barclamïu da Miéletz]

a set of five basic questions about Talossa

This should be included in the future as well.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

On the other hand: ChatGPT is getting out of hand to the point where the immigration essay is rapidly becoming pointless.

I say that we keep the essay, but, entries made by AI will be denied.

Do you think that's possible to do so under the wording of the current legislation? Because the opposition are *very* upset about me using that legislation even as written

[Zilect Uómbat Firă]

On the other hand: ChatGPT is getting out of hand to the point where the immigration essay is rapidly becoming pointless.

I say that we keep the essay, but, entries made by AI will be denied.

Keep in mind that AI detectors think that the US Declaration of Independence (and many other historical documents) were written by AI.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Keep in mind that AI detectors think that the US Declaration of Independence (and many other historical documents) were written by AI.

You tried to write a Talossan poem with AI, didn't you :D Seriously, I'd like a citation for that; but it doesn't surprise me considering AI detectors would be trained on historical documents, so not really relevant

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Keep in mind that AI detectors think that the US Declaration of Independence (and many other historical documents) were written by AI.

You tried to write a Talossan poem with AI, didn't you :D Seriously, I'd like a citation for that; but it doesn't surprise me considering AI detectors would be trained on historical documents, so not really relevant

That much is true.

[Zilect Uómbat Firă]

I'd like a citation for that

https://decrypt.co/286121/ai-detectors-fail-reliability-risks

[Barclamïu da Miéletz]

On the other hand: ChatGPT is getting out of hand to the point where the immigration essay is rapidly becoming pointless.

I say that we keep the essay, but, entries made by AI will be denied.

Do you think that's possible to do so under the wording of the current legislation? Because the opposition are *very* upset about me using that legislation even as written

Not exactly sure.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

To be honest, the idea of replacing the essay requirement with a very brief, 10-point multi-choice "civics quiz" which you can pass just by reading the front page of talossa.com is growing on me. Something that couldn't be easily brute-forced by a spambot.

[mximo]

Azul,

We should go back to a vote in both chambers, Cosa and Senate, like in the good old days. People had to network to get the support of parliamentarians. Personally, I often use Google Translate and Chat GPT to translate my texts from French to English. For me, the goal of making immigration more complex is simply to avoid having more people who do not participate. Our goal should be to have people ready to show us their desire to participate in the improvement of the kingdom; our immigration laws should reflect this.

Mximo

[Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be]

To be honest, the idea of replacing the essay requirement with a very brief, 10-point multi-choice "civics quiz" which you can pass just by reading the front page of talossa.com is growing on me. Something that couldn't be easily brute-forced by a spambot.

I'd support this.
- Tests are unbiased (well, less so anyway) compared to essay questions.
- As you say, spambots can't really force their way through (nor can you really ChatGPT your way through, lol)
- If you can't be bothered to take a ten-question quiz to demonstrate the faintest interest in Talossa, with all due respect, what brings you here? This is like the bare minimum.
- The "two sponsor" method now in use should stay, IMO.

Azul,

We should go back to a vote in both chambers, Cosa and Senate, like in the good old days. People had to network to get the support of parliamentarians. Personally, I often use Google Translate and Chat GPT to translate my texts from French to English. For me, the goal of making immigration more complex is simply to avoid having more people who do not participate. Our goal should be to have people ready to show us their desire to participate in the improvement of the kingdom; our immigration laws should reflect this.

Mximo

I can't say I'm in favor of citizenship votes. That basically means the Government of the day actually has a much easier path than they do now of filtering prospective citizens based on political alignment. I could maybe see an argument that the two petitioners must be one MC and one Senator, maybe, because at least then all you need is one, not 50%+1.

[mximo]

Azul,

The vote should be on participation level.

This is a protection against fraud just like the old days of the first cyber era.

Now our border are open to fake application.
This is the report from immigration minister, not mine.

We must take action to protect the Realm.

Mximo

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

To be honest, the idea of replacing the essay requirement with a very brief, 10-point multi-choice "civics quiz" which you can pass just by reading the front page of talossa.com is growing on me. Something that couldn't be easily brute-forced by a spambot.

I'd support this.
- Tests are unbiased (well, less so anyway) compared to essay questions.
- As you say, spambots can't really force their way through (nor can you really ChatGPT your way through, lol)
- If you can't be bothered to take a ten-question quiz to demonstrate the faintest interest in Talossa, with all due respect, what brings you here? This is like the bare minimum.
- The "two sponsor" method now in use should stay, IMO.

Azul,

We should go back to a vote in both chambers, Cosa and Senate, like in the good old days. People had to network to get the support of parliamentarians. Personally, I often use Google Translate and Chat GPT to translate my texts from French to English. For me, the goal of making immigration more complex is simply to avoid having more people who do not participate. Our goal should be to have people ready to show us their desire to participate in the improvement of the kingdom; our immigration laws should reflect this.

Mximo

I can't say I'm in favor of citizenship votes. That basically means the Government of the day actually has a much easier path than they do now of filtering prospective citizens based on political alignment. I could maybe see an argument that the two petitioners must be one MC and one Senator, maybe, because at least then all you need is one, not 50%+1.

Glad to see the idea for a basic civics quiz, as a less subjective approach, has multipartisan support. Hopefully this can be a co-sponsored bill. And that we can move past the essay.

[King Txec]

The discussion was de-railing the immigration thread so I moved it out into a thread of its own.

[owenedwards]

If you want to avoid AI, make it handwritten. (This will not be adopted, I understand. I'm just telling you that between that and actual invigilated exams, those are the only reasonable methods we have against AI cheating academically - and even they are only "very good", not perfect.)

[King Txec]

If you want to avoid AI, make it handwritten. (This will not be adopted, I understand. I'm just telling you that between that and actual invigilated exams, those are the only reasonable methods we have against AI cheating academically - and even they are only "very good", not perfect.)

Too bad we couldn't figure out how to do video essays or something.

-Txec R

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

The solution is to stop trying to screen essays for whether a person is acceptable, and instead just focus on whether or not they're engaging and making any connections.  I frankly do not care if someone uses AI as a communication tool -- it's a pretty great tool, and it's only going to happen if we keep on scrutinizing essays in this way.

We should welcome people who want to be Talossans, including those who have a learning disability or are still learning English as a second language.