Immigration: the people deserve a Government that cares

Started by Baron Alexandreu Davinescu, June 24, 2025, 08:03:43 PM

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Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

Immigration: the people deserve a Government with priorities

Over the past year, Talossa has shrunk in size.  Too many people have lost their citizenship, and too few have immigrated.  In fact, over the last year, the immigration rate has dropped by an astonishing 50%.

Fewer new citizens means that we're missing out on those who would be active and engaged, with new ideas and new energy.  It means fewer people to play games, run for office, write new poems, or just chat.  The necessary work and old institutions are divided up among a dwindling number of Talossans -- or worse, simply discarded.  It means that the same people stay in power, month after month, year after year.

According to the Seneschal, "the Government is not sure why immigration has dried up," but she notes that application numbers have been steady.  In other words, people seem just as interested, but they don't stay interested.  She suggests that "that Talossa is right now unattractive to newcomers," and that advertising wouldn't help.  On this point, she states, "I am convinced that you can't create a marketing campaign for a pile of garbage."  It's a problem with Talossa itself: she thinks that perhaps people just don't want to be here, and so they don't immigrate.

There's a serious crisis.  What should the Government be doing?  If this was a priority, what would we expect our Government to do?

Draw attention to the problem.  One of the most fundamental parts of leadership is helping to direct attention.  Since this is a serious crisis, and the Government has admitted they are at a loss, they should be shouting to the rooftops for help.  We have many citizens who pay only intermittent attention: perhaps one of them might have an idea.  Maybe you, reading this now have an idea.

Try new things.  The Government's signature policy on immigration was to make it harder to immigrate by barring any applicants with an essay of low quality.  This approach has rightfully been abandoned, but what has replaced it?  If we can't just advertise our "pile of garbage," then there must be other ideas.

We should be trying lots of things, since if we try nothing, we're certain to achieve exactly that: nothing.  Maybe we focus on our strengths with heraldry, and appeal to the online heraldic community?  Maybe we incentivize recruiting with awards, and publicize those awards with recorded video speeches?  Maybe we explore reaching out to former Old Growthers to invite them back?  Maybe we offer prizes for Talossan language writing, and then advertise those prizes on conlang forums?

Set goals.  The immigration rate has nearly halved during this Government's time in office.  Faced with that problem, a Government that was serious would set a goal for recovery.  An actual goal would demonstrate accountability.  It's much better than simply accepting decline.

The Avant Government is not doing any of these things, since solving this crisis is not one of their main priorities.  That's not good for the country.

The Progressive Alliance will prioritize immigration, the lifeblood of our country, by working to publicize the issue, trying lots of new ideas, and setting reasonable goals.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan

                   

Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC

You can do a lot of that stuff from opposition, you know

¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"They proved me right, they proved me wrong, but they could never last this long"

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

That's true!  And I am doing my best by trying to focus national interest on this topic through public speeches and parliamentary questions.

When the immigration rate dropped down to zero because the application was broken, it was the Opposition that started loudly demanding answers.  And when help was needed, I personally pitched in to fix the problem.

And now that it's been months and months with only meagre improvement, we are again trying to force the Government to actually do something to fix the problem.  We want to make this crisis very public and very widely-known, so that you guys will be embarrassed enough to try some new things.

The Progressive Alliance works hard to participate in positive aspects of civil life to improve our country.  The leader of the Progressive Alliance runs our social media, and he does so in a positive and fun way.  I have led and fought hard to reduce the toxicity in our country with the summit -- I wrote the bill coming up for a vote and I have been organizing the whole effort, as you know.  I also am the author of some cultural efforts to promote our language, working with the Government to make them a reality.

And of course, we work to help matters in another way: we are campaigning to replace this Government.  The Progressive Alliance does a lot from the Opposition, but we will be able to do even more if we return to lead and put things right.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan

                   

Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC

See, I'm not the one who should be embarassed, because you know there is no magic lever that the Government could pull to turn more prospectives into citizens. To hope that you can win an election by making people believe there is, and you're going to pull it, is pretty dishonest.

¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"They proved me right, they proved me wrong, but they could never last this long"

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

I think the "stop making it harder to immigrate" lever would work great.  Also, I'd pull the "try some different things like the things I suggested" lever.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan

                   

Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC

Nothing the Government has done has made it harder to make an immigration application, you just made that up

BTW, can I have some indication from the Progressive Alliance's actual leader, @þerxh Sant-Enogat , that this really is the policy perspective of his party?

¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"They proved me right, they proved me wrong, but they could never last this long"

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

As you might recall, the phrase that you used, D:na Seneschal, was "quality over quantity."  You said you wanted to "raise the bar" for applicants.  It's unclear how much effect the policy change of rejecting some applicants due to their essays might have had, since it was applied under considerable scrutiny and abandoned after a couple of months, but it doesn't seem to have helped at all.  And just recently, you signaled the Government's intent to institute a test for citizens.  This is the wrong direction for the country.

I also think there's questions of management -- a cheerful and colorful public image, along with actually trying things like looking at the process.  The immigration form has something like thirty steps, including boxes to be expanded and questions and checkboxes and an essay -- have we looked at this and seen if it can be improved?  Have we looked at our websites and seen if they can be made more welcoming?  What exactly has even been attempted?

Usually, this question might be muddled.  Usually, there's no clear and obvious lever to pull.  But for the upcoming election, the choice is between "we don't know what's wrong with this pile of garbage" and "let's try some things."
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan

                   

Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC

I just realised that this debate is happening on your Party's forum. Sorry, I didn't realise, I usually wouldn't go into someone's house and tell them they're talking nonsense. I'm going to respond, but feel free to tell me to move it elsewhere if it's not appropriate.

But the central point remains: you know perfectly well, though you are using rhetorical trickery to bury it, that Talossa is getting more than enough citizenship applications. If we acknowledge that Government policy is currently suceeding in this regard, the next question is twofold:

- how to turn applicants into citizens?
- how to attract good quality applicants, who are actually interested in becoming active citizens?

It's clear that you actually understand the real problem, in that you're talking about reaching out to specific communities who might be interested in participating Talossan life. You give the example of heraldry nerds. So you agree that there are a specific *kind* of person we should be looking for. Fine. The Government has its own ideas on that regard. Opening the Landing Pier to broad micronational society is part of that.

The Government's interest in putting an end to spam applications which use ChatGPT essays is entirely of a piece with that. Face facts - no-one, not never who has produced an essay written with ChatGPT or whatever has ever gone on to successfully become a citizen. Not one. Because use of ChatGPT shows that they're not really interested in becoming part of our Talossan community. You really seem to think that we should let all kinds of spam entries through because spammers might decide to become citizens after participating. I disagree.

¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"They proved me right, they proved me wrong, but they could never last this long"

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

#8
Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC on June 28, 2025, 08:09:23 PMI just realised that this debate is happening on your Party's forum. Sorry, I didn't realise, I usually wouldn't go into someone's house and tell them they're talking nonsense. I'm going to respond, but feel free to tell me to move it elsewhere if it's not appropriate.

It's okay, since we're already discussing, but I appreciate the thought :)  Typically discussing it elsewhere would be my preference, but also I'm happy to post a clean version of this policy page in the future.  Not a big deal.

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC on June 28, 2025, 08:09:23 PMBut the central point remains: you know perfectly well, though you are using rhetorical trickery to bury it, that Talossa is getting more than enough citizenship applications. If we acknowledge that Government policy is currently suceeding in this regard, the next question is twofold:

- how to turn applicants into citizens?
- how to attract good quality applicants, who are actually interested in becoming active citizens?

It's clear that you actually understand the real problem, in that you're talking about reaching out to specific communities who might be interested in participating Talossan life. You give the example of heraldry nerds. So you agree that there are a specific *kind* of person we should be looking for. Fine. The Government has its own ideas on that regard. Opening the Landing Pier to broad micronational society is part of that.

The Government's interest in putting an end to spam applications which use ChatGPT essays is entirely of a piece with that. Face facts - no-one, not never who has produced an essay written with ChatGPT or whatever has ever gone on to successfully become a citizen. Not one. Because use of ChatGPT shows that they're not really interested in becoming part of our Talossan community. You really seem to think that we should let all kinds of spam entries through because spammers might decide to become citizens after participating. I disagree.

The central point is that immigration has plunged by almost 50% under this Government.  And while I suppose we might argue about whether policing essays made things worse, it kind of seems besides the point, since we still have the problem!

If a wall in our house is crumbling, then it might not have made any difference when the construction crew hung some shelves on it.  Doesn't make any sense to me to do that, but okay... in the end, does it really matter?  "We probably didn't make it worse" isn't much to brag about, and we still have a crumbling wall!

You're in charge, and you've dropped the ball: immigration levels have plummeted by almost half.

The people of Talossa deserve a government that sets this as a major priority, not one that has to be forced into thinking about the topic.  As I explained initially:  If this was a priority, what would we expect our Government to do?

Draw attention to the problem.  One of the most fundamental parts of leadership is helping to direct attention.  Since this is a serious crisis, and the Government has admitted they are at a loss, they should be shouting to the rooftops for help.  We have many citizens who pay only intermittent attention: perhaps one of them might have an idea.

Try new things.  The Government's signature policy on immigration was to make it harder to immigrate by barring any applicants with an essay of low quality.  This approach has rightfully been abandoned, but what has replaced it?  If we can't just advertise our "pile of garbage," then there must be other ideas.

We should be trying lots of things, since if we try nothing, we're certain to achieve exactly that: nothing.  Maybe we focus on our strengths with heraldry, and appeal to the online heraldic community?  Maybe we incentivize recruiting with awards, and publicize those awards with recorded video speeches?  Maybe we explore reaching out to former Old Growthers to invite them back?  Maybe we offer prizes for Talossan language writing, and then advertise those prizes on conlang forums?

Set goals.  The immigration rate has nearly halved during this Government's time in office.  Faced with that problem, a Government that was serious would set a goal for recovery.  An actual goal would demonstrate accountability.  It's much better than simply accepting decline.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan

                   

Tric'hard Lenxheir

I will say one thing and leave this discussion to the experts. Many people in Talossa (including Miestra and the Baron) have condemned the current leadership of our big brother nation surrounding most of Talossa for making immigration difficult to nearly impossible, requiring new citizens to show they will be useful citizens among other things. Then I see our leadership attempt to impose the very same things. Essays and tests to prove you will be "useful" citizens. I have said before that if I had been required to type out an essay I likely never would have been admitted as a citizen, I may not have even made the effort. Furthermore I have never tested well, there is a reason I am a truck driver in real life, I am not smart enough to have achieved a college degree, hell I barely graduated from high school and the reason for this is that I have never done well at tests. I don't know the answer to creating a better, more active citizenry but I don't think making it more difficult is the right answer. Then again perhaps some citizens here would rather the dumb old truck driver wasn't a citizen and wishes I could have been blocked.
Tric'hard Lenxheir

Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC

Quote from: Tric'hard Lenxheir on Today at 08:34:58 AMThen I see our leadership attempt to impose the very same things. Essays and tests to prove you will be "useful" citizens.

The bill which I just proposed to the Ziu *removes* the need for a new citizen to write an essay. The Baron has sworn to *oppose* that bill, to require every citizen to keep writing an essay, no matter if it's ChatGPT. You might want to ask him why he's doing that.

The problem comes when people use rhetoric which says one thing as an excuse for action to do the opposite.

¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
"They proved me right, they proved me wrong, but they could never last this long"

Baron Alexandreu Davinescu

#11
Until this Government, the accepted practice was for pretty much anything to be admissible as the essay, even if it wasn't an "essay" in the classical sense. And now your proposed bill suggests instead a "test of basic knowledge about Talossa."

This is just a further step in the wrong direction. The decision to make it harder to immigrate by "raising the bar" has been a failure.

The facts are bitter and indisputable: the immigration rate has dropped by nearly half. We need a new approach.
Alexandreu Davinescu, Baron Davinescu del Vilatx Freiric del Vilatx Freiric es Guaír del Sabor Talossan