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Author Topic: SIGN rules  (Read 2326 times)

Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2020, 05:57:23 PM »
I have a question from the incoming Cultural Development Secretary. What is the SIGN process for formally adopting new Talossan words into the lexicon/Overstéir/Treisour?

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Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2020, 11:37:44 AM »
I have a question from the incoming Cultural Development Secretary. What is the SIGN process for formally adopting new Talossan words into the lexicon/Overstéir/Treisour?

I can think of two approaches:
  • We could sift through recently published Talossan texts and check if they contain any new words that have become popular. We'd then vote on whether to add them in an upcoming Pienamaintsch.
  • We could have a form where Ladintschen send us suggestions for new words and where the word comes from (as in the etymology for it), and then we'd vote on those suggestions as explained above.

This isn't a question of either/or, we could do both.
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2020, 03:24:54 PM »
Here's the direct quote from the PermSecCultDev:

Quote
Suppose I have created some new Talossan words. (Which I have.) Is there any approval system for getting new words entered into the Treisour and L'Oversteier? Like, SIGN having a committee of Talossan language experts who will review submitted words, see if they are Talossanically correct, and if so, into the official Talossan lexicon they go? (Talossan already has a fantastic vocabulary for a constructed language, but even so, I've found the need to make up new words.) (I was going to add, any citizen who creates five new words that are approved by the SIGN committee gets to move up a rank in the Zouaves, but since AD is going to be gone for awhile,I guess we'll have to scrap that idea.) (I know we should probably be more concerned about people actually learning Talossan than worrying about gaps in the vocabulary, but...I just like words! I use L'Oversteier almost every day.)

We really need that Pienamaintsch for the Provisional Rules so we can update l'Oversteir and older translations, btw.

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"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan
"It probably would be a bit helpful if you resigned and became inactive..." - Sir A. Davinescù

Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2020, 09:39:12 PM »
Let's see if this works.

Please let me know if I forgot about something. I tried to get this document up as quick as possible and its currently 4:40 AM...

EDIT: Considering how similar the Provisional Standard seems to be to the 2007-2019 CÚG spelling, honestly I'm surprised that you were so on board with it.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 09:49:08 PM by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial »
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2020, 10:27:06 PM »
My priority is some consensus, any consensus, which allows us to move forward. My entire philosophy of Talossa is that I much prefer that something happen and someone take responsibility, even if it's something I don't like, than we just whine and cry and argue and wonder why people aren't interested in Talossa anymore.

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"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan
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Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2020, 10:06:11 AM »
So assuming the Pienamaintsch is acceptable like this: what happens next?
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2020, 08:30:57 PM »
So assuming the Pienamaintsch is acceptable like this: what happens next?

Considering that almost all Talossan-speakers use l'Översteir for translations: update l'Översteir in accordance with this Pienamaintsch.

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"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan
"It probably would be a bit helpful if you resigned and became inactive..." - Sir A. Davinescù

Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2020, 02:33:50 AM »
So assuming the Pienamaintsch is acceptable like this: what happens next?

Considering that almost all Talossan-speakers use l'Översteir for translations: update l'Översteir in accordance with this Pienamaintsch.

Sorry, I just realised that that sounded like I was expecting you to do it all yourself, lol. :)

Should we actually:
1) get the Treisour database and divide it into sections;
2) call for volunteers to "update" those sections?

Could this be done by anyone with a basic knowledge of the language?

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"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan
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Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2020, 05:36:59 AM »
Points 3 and 5 will definitely be the most tedious to implement because they affect a large part of the vocabulary, can't be automated and require some amount of technical knowledge.

The other points are so trivial (point 4 is just one search-and-replace command) that I could do them myself in 10 minutes tops.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 06:04:26 AM by Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial »
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<Recommendations on the Talossan Language (WIP grammar)>
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2020, 08:15:08 PM »
I'm exhausted right now, but what I think I want to do is create a "Super-Pienamaintsch" which enables us to apply a single set of rules to the KR1-era Treisour, which might be easier than "rolling back" some of the changes that have happened (eg stress marking)

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"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2020, 02:48:00 AM »
All right. Am I right that your Pienamaintsch could be rephrased in its entirety as:

Quote
1. Restore the letter å as it appeared in the pre-2007 Treisour.
2. Restore the digraph äi as it appeared in the pre-2007 Treisour.
3. All words ending in â in the pre-2007 Treisour are restored, with the final letter replaced by ă, although a is also acceptable. Replace word-final indamint with indămint.
4. Replace rh with r throughout.
5. Go through the entire lexicon, re-stressmarking according to the Stress Rule in the provisional spelling whererever necessary. This includes replacing stress marks with tremata wherever their only purpose is to mark a hiatus (e.g. actíu -> actïu).
6. Respell the word Civian “Kevin” as Chivian, correcting an earlier mistake when applying the 2007 Pienamaintsch.

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"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan
"It probably would be a bit helpful if you resigned and became inactive..." - Sir A. Davinescù

Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2020, 04:13:22 AM »
All right. Am I right that your Pienamaintsch could be rephrased in its entirety as:

Quote
[...]
3. All words ending in â in the pre-2007 Treisour are restored, with the final letter replaced by ă, although a is also acceptable. Replace word-final indamint with indămint.
[...]

Not quite. Prepositions that arent derivations of feminine nouns or adjectives (like contrâ or proftâ) don't get their  back (--> contra, profta), but some words that never had  under Ben's rules (like Rußïa, Tzaratütsch) do (--> Rußïă, Tzarătütsch).
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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2020, 02:16:37 PM »
Great, so:

Quote
1. Restore the letter å as it appeared in the pre-2007 Treisour.
2. Restore the digraph äi as it appeared in the pre-2007 Treisour.
3. Replace word-final unstressed a or â of feminine nouns and adjectives, their compounds (e.g. Tzaranhoua “Newfoundland”) and derivations with ă, except in Talossa. Replace word-final indamint with indămint. A is an acceptable substitute for ă throughout.
4. Replace rh with r throughout.
5. Go through the entire lexicon, re-stressmarking according to the Stress Rule in the provisional spelling whererever necessary. This includes replacing stress marks with tremata wherever their only purpose is to mark a hiatus (e.g. actíu -> actïu).
6. Respell the word Civian “Kevin” as Chivian, correcting an earlier mistake when applying the 2007 Pienamaintsch.

Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Talossa. Ask me anything.

"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan
"It probably would be a bit helpful if you resigned and became inactive..." - Sir A. Davinescù

Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2020, 03:05:02 PM »
While I'm on the subject, why did the adjective Talossán lose its final-syllable stress in the 2007-2014 language? And can we have it back?

Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Talossa. Ask me anything.

"IS INACTIVITY BAD? I THINK NOT!" - Lord Hooligan
"It probably would be a bit helpful if you resigned and became inactive..." - Sir A. Davinescù

Offline Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial

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Re: SIGN rules
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2020, 04:49:09 PM »
While I'm on the subject, why did the adjective Talossán lose its final-syllable stress in the 2007-2014 language? And can we have it back?

It didn't. Talossan is pronounced with ultimate stress according to the stress rule.
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