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Author Topic: Immigration Law Problems!  (Read 1665 times)

Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2020, 09:42:24 PM »
But they should also edit the Organic Law page to remove the phrase "and editing this to make my point again since no one's fixed this yet" from the preamble, which I added a couple of months ago when I was trying to draw attention

This is a dirty trick and completely counter-productive. Shame on you.
Repeatedly calling for the page to be moved and personally messaging GV didn't work, so I was trying something funny that I hoped would get attention.  Clutch our pearls, we might, but inserting a harmless clause into the non-binding preamble of a law doesn't seem like a moral horror to me.  Let's pump the brakes on our rapid descent into humorless pedantry.
Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
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Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2020, 09:53:50 PM »
Seriously, the question of who has what privileges on the Wiki will have to be decided by the Minister of STUFF and whatever Wiki Administration staff he decides to appoint once the new Government officially takes office.
I was offering advice for the Scribe, as you asked.  The fact that widening groups of people can edit the laws is a problem for the Scribery.  The Scribe may address it or not, as they wish.

 
It just remains to me to point out the deplorable bad faith required to point out how many people had scribe status when (a) AD actually gave most of those people the privileges which I just took away, and (b) he had no issue with the Wiki being a mess when the now-LCC leader was MinStuff and doing nothing with it.

I don't think I ever gave Scribe powers to anyone who wasn't officially in the Scribery when I was admin.  I do not know who has been the wiki admin in the time since I left, but they are probably to blame.  If it was Ian, then he is to blame.  If it was only Ian part of the time, then he is partly to blame.

It takes a very special kind of jerk to refuse to help the Scribe when the Scribe called for help - eg. over updating the Digest of Laws - but actually commiting vandalism to make the Scribe's job more difficult wasn't any problem at all. Such behaviour is positively un-Talossan, and shameful.
"Vandalism?"  lol ok.  Surely if I wanted to be difficult or make anything harder I would have done something at least remotely harmful and wouldn't have personally called it to your attention here or the Scribe's attention at the time (repeatedly).

Oh, and they should work with the wiki administrator to make sure that only the Scribe has access to that edit power on the wiki: currently there's a long list of ordinary citizens in the Scribe group

You see, AD has got us coming and going. When I first got admin rights on the Wiki a month ago, I noticed that big list of people with Scribe privileges, but deliberately didn't whittle it down because it contains people who are unfavorable to the current Government and the last thing I wanted was Scandal! Power-Mad Government Removes Citizen Rights on Wiki! in the next S'chintéia or whatever.

I believe this very much.
Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2020, 09:58:07 PM »
Quote
"Vandalism?"  lol ok.


That's the technical term.


Quote
On Wikipedia, vandalism is editing the project in a malicious manner that is intentionally disruptive. Vandalism includes any addition, removal, or modification that is humorous, nonsensical, a hoax, or otherwise degrading.


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Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2020, 10:03:36 PM »
Quote
"Vandalism?"  lol ok.


That's the technical term.


Quote
On Wikipedia, vandalism is editing the project in a malicious manner that is intentionally disruptive. Vandalism includes any addition, removal, or modification that is humorous, nonsensical, a hoax, or otherwise degrading.

Oh, goodness, you're right.

I mean, someone cynical might say that you're seizing on a flimsy pretext to get all huffy over just about the mildest joke imaginable because you're a little embarrassed, but that would be someone cynical.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 10:05:42 PM by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu »
Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2020, 10:05:48 PM »


« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 10:07:42 PM by Miestră Schivă, UrN »

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Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2020, 10:08:51 PM »

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Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2020, 10:11:45 PM »



This whole incident is all the funnier in light of your own speech a few years back on the patriotism of amusing civil disobedience in the public interest, by the way.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 10:15:01 PM by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu »
Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline Miestră Schivă, UrN

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2020, 10:17:35 PM »
If we can pause the hilarious meme war for a moment, I'm interested in the question of moving the 2017 OrgLaw to the Scribe's name space. Because I did that myself a few weeks ago when I got Wiki admin rights (of course I didn't see AD's vandalism), but I had never heard the issue being raised. In fact, I only had to learn about namespaces to protect the New Talossan History Project from vandalism. I must have just missed it when the

Quote
Repeatedly calling for the page to be moved

happened. Still, it's done now.

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Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2020, 10:21:50 PM »
I agree to the detente.

Yes, I saw you do it, which I thought was well-intentioned but not great.  The Seneschal shouldn't have the power to edit the laws at will.  I didn't raise a fuss because it didn't seem likely to result in any change and I thought you'd probably just say I was raising the issue to attack you rather than out of legitimate concerns.  The rights for user groups should be adjusted.  It's not hard to do, and it will prevent anyone not in the Scribery (and thus with the legal authority to maintain our laws) from doing this.  I set up Lawspace years ago when getting the wiki infrastructure together specifically as a preventative measure because I thought it would be pretty easy for someone unscrupulous to mess with things. You didn't mean any harm and didn't do any, but we shouldn't plan laws for only the well-intentioned.

Technically, by the way, the Seneschal or MinStuff or wiki admin could always just add themselves to the Scribe group and do it.  But that necessitates at least three log entries and will stand out more, making the misdeeds more likely to be noticed.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 10:31:30 PM by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu »
Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
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Offline Eðo Grischun

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2020, 10:35:40 PM »
You all know what's just happened here, right?

This is just AD noticing that his access rights got reduced on the Wiki and is now just throwing a bit of a paddy (the rights got modified almost 6 weeks ago along with a whole load of other out-of-date rights from previous administrations).  The pretend problem that he claims he is highlighting to the nation on "swelling of access group membership" was fixed on August 7th.  We may have missed a couple of accounts at that time - I'll check and fix that later, but, a wholesale clear-out of old accounts on both the Wiki and the main website took place back in early August immediately after Ian P. handed over control. 

Today, something came up and AD went to look at the Wiki to see if he could build a gotcha and discovered that one of his sources of power had been removed from him.  This annoyed him and tickled his sensitivities.

And so, because he's a bit of a wrong'un, he's tried to embarrass the government by pulling out some crazy nonsense from way back in April; something bad that he did and tried to make it look like the fault of his political rivals.  I mean, how psycho is that?  Amaright?  But in the end, all he has done here is expose himself as a mischievous and Machiavellian vandal and a bit of a sad sack.   

But, I managed to write all this without calling him my favourite 4 letter word that I have for him, so, patting my myself on the back.


Genuinely.  Anybody that gives this clown another moment of their attention or energy is asking for the inevitable headache.

Everybody needs to just jog on now.  Especially you, AD. 

The Rt. Hon. Senator Éovart Grischun S.H.

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Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2020, 10:40:47 PM »
...what?  I haven't had any special edit rights on the wiki for years.  A quick glance at the log shows that I have been a member of the Citizen user group since 2015: http://wiki.talossa.com/index.php?title=Special:Log/rights&offset=&limit=500&type=rights&user=  I demoted myself, incidentally, when I was no longer in office ;)

So I guess your case is that I was suddenly seized by rage over my loss of power on the wiki five years ago (power to do what?) and I was just forced to point out legitimate problems just to cause trouble.  And even more malevolently, I sent messages to the person in charge of fixing the problem beforehand.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 10:45:30 PM by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu »
Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline Eðo Grischun

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2020, 10:46:42 PM »
...what?  I haven't had any special edit rights on the wiki for years.  A quick glance at the log shows that I have been a member of the Citizen user group since 2015.

So I guess your case is that I was all pepped up with righteous anger for the past five years.

My mistake.  Your admin rights were removed from the main website in August.  Fair enough.  Apologies.

That only changes whatever your motive was.  The rest still stands.  You planted some seed back in April and decide to use it now for... I have no earthly idea what for.   
The Rt. Hon. Senator Éovart Grischun S.H.

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Senator of Vuode

Offline Sir Alexandreu Davinescu

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2020, 10:50:30 PM »
...what?  I haven't had any special edit rights on the wiki for years.  A quick glance at the log shows that I have been a member of the Citizen user group since 2015.

So I guess your case is that I was all pepped up with righteous anger for the past five years.

My mistake.  Your admin rights were removed from the main website in August.  Fair enough.  Apologies.

That only changes whatever your motive was.  The rest still stands.  You planted some seed back in April and decide to use it now for... I have no earthly idea what for.   

lol, didn't even know you'd removed any rights from me on the website, sorry.  Go nuts with that, though -- follow your bliss.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 10:52:35 PM by Sir Alexandreu Davinescu »
Bitter struggles deform their participants in subtle, complicated ways. ― Zadie Smith
Revolution is an art that I pursue rather than a goal I expect to achieve. ― Robert Heinlein

Offline Eðo Grischun

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2020, 10:57:09 PM »
...what?  I haven't had any special edit rights on the wiki for years.  A quick glance at the log shows that I have been a member of the Citizen user group since 2015: http://wiki.talossa.com/index.php?title=Special:Log/rights&offset=&limit=500&type=rights&user=  I demoted myself, incidentally, when I was no longer in office ;)

So I guess your case is that I was suddenly seized by rage over my loss of power on the wiki five years ago (power to do what?) and I was just forced to point out legitimate problems just to cause trouble.  And even more malevolently, I sent messages to the person in charge of fixing the problem beforehand.

The "problem" was fixed before we even knew about cases of vandalism though...

You left an 'easter egg' back in April (who was looking after Wiki accounts then anyway? I'm not sure) prior to us sorting out the access memberships.
In August we sort out the access rights after the previous admin left.
In September you reveal your April trick and blame it on the access groups being bloated, which was fixed before you bogus complaint, but after your vandalism.

Actual LOL.

?!?!

(You claim you haven't had any special editing rights for 5 years.. yet you managed to make that edit to a protected page in April?  Am I missing something here?  How could that have happened?)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 11:04:30 PM by Eðo Grischun »
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Senator of Vuode

Offline Eðo Grischun

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Re: Immigration Law Problems!
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2020, 10:58:02 PM »
...what?  I haven't had any special edit rights on the wiki for years.  A quick glance at the log shows that I have been a member of the Citizen user group since 2015.

So I guess your case is that I was all pepped up with righteous anger for the past five years.

My mistake.  Your admin rights were removed from the main website in August.  Fair enough.  Apologies.

That only changes whatever your motive was.  The rest still stands.  You planted some seed back in April and decide to use it now for... I have no earthly idea what for.   

lol, didn't even know you'd removed any rights from me on the website, sorry.  Go nuts with that, though -- follow your bliss.

Calm your narcissism.  It was nothing about you.  Everyone that wasn't in the current cabinet was removed.
The Rt. Hon. Senator Éovart Grischun S.H.

Distain and Minister of STUFF
Senator of Vuode