Calling Council of Governors

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Maritiimi-Maxhestic:  @Sir Alexandreu Davinescu, am I correct to assume that as GGS of M-M you will be filling the M-M seat on this council?

What is the council for?  I don't know much about it.

LEX.D.9 has everything on the Council there is to know, which isn't much, admittedly.  The Interior Minister has a statutory obligation to call the Council to order by the first day of the first Clark and it is composed of the executive officer (be that a Governor, a Premier, a Seneschal, etc.) of each province.  LEX doesn't actually go as far as to say what it's actual purpose is or what it's mission is supposed to be, just that it needs to exist.  It can basically operate in whichever way it likes once it has formed, but I have generally assumed its remit is to discuss intra-provincial matters.

If you are the M-M executive then I would need for you to accept your seat by the end of this month, otherwise I have the power to name any M-M citizen to fill it in place of an absent executive.

Well then, I accept this great responsibility.

[Eðo Grischun]

Maritiimi-Maxhestic:  @Sir Alexandreu Davinescu, am I correct to assume that as GGS of M-M you will be filling the M-M seat on this council?

What is the council for?  I don't know much about it.

LEX.D.9 has everything on the Council there is to know, which isn't much, admittedly.  The Interior Minister has a statutory obligation to call the Council to order by the first day of the first Clark and it is composed of the executive officer (be that a Governor, a Premier, a Seneschal, etc.) of each province.  LEX doesn't actually go as far as to say what it's actual purpose is or what it's mission is supposed to be, just that it needs to exist.  It can basically operate in whichever way it likes once it has formed, but I have generally assumed its remit is to discuss intra-provincial matters.

If you are the M-M executive then I would need for you to accept your seat by the end of this month, otherwise I have the power to name any M-M citizen to fill it in place of an absent executive.

Well then, I accept this great responsibility.

Roll call updated.  Thanks.

So, it's just Cezembre outstanding then.  If the exec office hasn't been filled by the deadline then I guess I'll take a look through the sub-forum and just appoint whoever appears to be the most active Cezembrean on a provincial level.

[Eðo Grischun]

Following Cezembre's election of its Seneschal, we now have a full roster. 

We move to nominations for committee chair.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I do not second the motion, and offer a contrary one: I move that we adjourn.  The statutory obligation is met and there's no need to nominate and elect someone to do literally nothing.

[Eðo Grischun]

That's particularly defeatist.  How about we at least try? There are quite a few highly active people on the membership this term. It is possible that something fruitful ends up coming of it. 

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

I certainly hope that something does come from it and I oppose the suggestion from Maritiimi-Maxhestic. I have an allergy to "legal box-ticking exercises". That said, I wonder whether the Minister has any conception of what might come from it? Are we going to discuss mergers again, or anything like that?

[King Txec]

Maricopa seconds the motion to nominate a Committee Chair.

[Eðo Grischun]

I'm hoping that after we elect the Chair that we will then all have a chance to put suggestions forward for an agenda.

(but, aye.  I'm looking forward to a vigorous discussion on mergers, particularly Vuode and MM).

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Discussion of mergers between provinces would seem to be between those provinces. If two provinces want to merge, then what business is it of the others? No one from Vuode has approached the 18th Convocation about a merger, if that's something your province wants.

It seems like the only conceivable purpose for this body would be as a vehicle for provincial pushback against an encroachment of the Ziu, but that doesn't seem likely.

Barring that, if something is a national issue, why discuss it here rather than among the people elected to handle national matters in the Ziu?

Regardless, I withdraw my motion and the Government can proceed.

[Eðo Grischun]

Discussion of mergers between provinces would seem to be between those provinces. If two provinces want to merge, then what business is it of the others? No one from Vuode has approached the 18th Convocation about a merger, if that's something your province wants.

It seems like the only conceivable purpose for this body would be as a vehicle for provincial pushback against an encroachment of the Ziu, but that doesn't seem likely.

Barring that, if something is a national issue, why discuss it here rather than among the people elected to handle national matters in the Ziu?

Regardless, I withdraw my motion and the Government can proceed.

The government has nothing to do with this.  Yeah, "many hats" are at play, but let's not get the legal statuses confused here.  This is not a governmental project, nor is it a national initiative for the Ziu to get involved with. This is a meeting of the provincial executives (somewhat similar to COSLA (convention of local authorities), here in Scotland, but not exactly).

The purpose of this committee, as far as I gather, is that it acts as a think tank for inter-provincial matters and its members act as liaisons between their local assemblies and the other provinces and, if required, the national institutions.  I don't know...but, this seems like the perfect place for two provinces to begin discussions on mergers.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Discussion of mergers between provinces would seem to be between those provinces. If two provinces want to merge, then what business is it of the others? No one from Vuode has approached the 18th Convocation about a merger, if that's something your province wants.

It seems like the only conceivable purpose for this body would be as a vehicle for provincial pushback against an encroachment of the Ziu, but that doesn't seem likely.

Barring that, if something is a national issue, why discuss it here rather than among the people elected to handle national matters in the Ziu?

Regardless, I withdraw my motion and the Government can proceed.

The government has nothing to do with this.  Yeah, "many hats" are at play, but let's not get the legal statuses confused here.  This is not a governmental project, nor is it a national initiative for the Ziu to get involved with. This is a meeting of the provincial executives (somewhat similar to COSLA (convention of local authorities), here in Scotland, but not exactly).

The purpose of this committee, as far as I gather, is that it acts as a think tank for inter-provincial matters and its members act as liaisons between their local assemblies and the other provinces and, if required, the national institutions.  I don't know...but, this seems like the perfect place for two provinces to begin discussions on mergers.

Well, S:reu Distain, I gather that yourself and the Seneschal are both interested in discussing provincial mergers within this body.  That initiative is a component of the Government programme.  I'm not saying that you folks are legally acting as the Government here, but I don't see much point in pretending not to notice the obvious.  There's nothing wrong with this, by the way!

Glancing back at the origin of the Council, it was intended as a way for the provinces to "work together for mutual interest," "giving the provinces a united voice when addressing the government of Talossa."  This matches what seems evident from its very nature: it's intended as an institution to allow the provinces to co-ordinate and push back on the Government or Ziu when necessary.  I mean, honestly, does it even make sense otherwise?  If two provinces want to do stuff together, then it makes sense for them to talk to each other.  If people are interested in doing something spanning across the rest of the country on a national level, then they work through the national legislature.  We don't have a very federalized system, so nothing else really makes sense.

But I will cede the point since it really doesn't matter very much, and I am not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing.  Maybe this will jumpstart something, or... I don't know?  Worth a shot, I guess.

I will support the motion to move to nominations for Governor-General, which leaves the measure one vote short of passing by acclaim (four out of eight currently).  I suggest we leave a week for any contrary voices or additional support, and then move to a week-long vote on the motion.

[Eðo Grischun]

Discussion of mergers between provinces would seem to be between those provinces. If two provinces want to merge, then what business is it of the others? No one from Vuode has approached the 18th Convocation about a merger, if that's something your province wants.

It seems like the only conceivable purpose for this body would be as a vehicle for provincial pushback against an encroachment of the Ziu, but that doesn't seem likely.

Barring that, if something is a national issue, why discuss it here rather than among the people elected to handle national matters in the Ziu?

Regardless, I withdraw my motion and the Government can proceed.

The government has nothing to do with this.  Yeah, "many hats" are at play, but let's not get the legal statuses confused here.  This is not a governmental project, nor is it a national initiative for the Ziu to get involved with. This is a meeting of the provincial executives (somewhat similar to COSLA (convention of local authorities), here in Scotland, but not exactly).

The purpose of this committee, as far as I gather, is that it acts as a think tank for inter-provincial matters and its members act as liaisons between their local assemblies and the other provinces and, if required, the national institutions.  I don't know...but, this seems like the perfect place for two provinces to begin discussions on mergers.

Well, S:reu Distain, I gather that yourself and the Seneschal are both interested in discussing provincial mergers within this body.  That initiative is a component of the Government programme.  I'm not saying that you folks are legally acting as the Government here, but I don't see much point in pretending not to notice the obvious.

Glancing back at the origin of the Council, it was intended as a way for the provinces to "work together for mutual interest," "giving the provinces a united voice when addressing the government of Talossa."  This matches what seems evident from its very nature: it's intended as an institution to allow the provinces to co-ordinate and push back on the Government or Ziu when necessary.  I mean, honestly, does it even make sense otherwise?  If two provinces want to do stuff together, then it makes sense for them to talk to each other.  If people are interested in doing something spanning across the rest of the country on a national level, then they work through the national legislature.  We don't have a very federalized system, so nothing else really makes sense.

But I will cede the point since it really doesn't matter very much, and I am not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing.  I will support the motion to move to nominations for Governor-General, which leaves the measure one vote short of passing by acclaim (four out of eight currently).  I suggest we leave a week for any contrary voices or additional support, and then move to a week-long vote on the motion.

No, we don't need a week long vote just to decide if we are going to open nominations or not.  LEX.9.3 says a Governor-General exists and shall be chosen by majority.  Nominate a name so we can just get on with things.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Discussion of mergers between provinces would seem to be between those provinces. If two provinces want to merge, then what business is it of the others? No one from Vuode has approached the 18th Convocation about a merger, if that's something your province wants.

It seems like the only conceivable purpose for this body would be as a vehicle for provincial pushback against an encroachment of the Ziu, but that doesn't seem likely.

Barring that, if something is a national issue, why discuss it here rather than among the people elected to handle national matters in the Ziu?

Regardless, I withdraw my motion and the Government can proceed.

The government has nothing to do with this.  Yeah, "many hats" are at play, but let's not get the legal statuses confused here.  This is not a governmental project, nor is it a national initiative for the Ziu to get involved with. This is a meeting of the provincial executives (somewhat similar to COSLA (convention of local authorities), here in Scotland, but not exactly).

The purpose of this committee, as far as I gather, is that it acts as a think tank for inter-provincial matters and its members act as liaisons between their local assemblies and the other provinces and, if required, the national institutions.  I don't know...but, this seems like the perfect place for two provinces to begin discussions on mergers.

Well, S:reu Distain, I gather that yourself and the Seneschal are both interested in discussing provincial mergers within this body.  That initiative is a component of the Government programme.  I'm not saying that you folks are legally acting as the Government here, but I don't see much point in pretending not to notice the obvious.

Glancing back at the origin of the Council, it was intended as a way for the provinces to "work together for mutual interest," "giving the provinces a united voice when addressing the government of Talossa."  This matches what seems evident from its very nature: it's intended as an institution to allow the provinces to co-ordinate and push back on the Government or Ziu when necessary.  I mean, honestly, does it even make sense otherwise?  If two provinces want to do stuff together, then it makes sense for them to talk to each other.  If people are interested in doing something spanning across the rest of the country on a national level, then they work through the national legislature.  We don't have a very federalized system, so nothing else really makes sense.

But I will cede the point since it really doesn't matter very much, and I am not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing.  I will support the motion to move to nominations for Governor-General, which leaves the measure one vote short of passing by acclaim (four out of eight currently).  I suggest we leave a week for any contrary voices or additional support, and then move to a week-long vote on the motion.

No, we don't need a week long vote just to decide if we are going to open nominations or not.  LEX.9.3 says a Governor-General exists and shall be chosen by majority.  Nominate a name so we can just get on with things.

Okay, clearly you have a pretty distinct vision of what you want to accomplish and how, so I'm just going to step back and let you get to it, S:reu Distain. Didn't mean to be a wrench in the works. Carry on.

[Eðo Grischun]

I just don't see the need to start inventing unnecessary hurdles that take up even more time.  *shrug*

Convince four of the other members to go full-on Robert's Rules and you got it though.

[Eðo Grischun]

I nominate XPB for the role of Gov-Gen.

[Adam Grigoriu]

I have been informed that it is now my role as Interior Minister to organize this Council. The roll has been called, all necessary seats filled, and a chair nominated, so I believe a vote is required. Past that, El Lex is very unclear is to what role, if any the Interior Minster is to play in the functioning of the Council, so unless my involvement is required I shall watch from the sidelines.

[Eðo Grischun]

I repeat my nomination.

[xpb]

Point of order - it would seem that one could not be both Cézembre Sénéchal and Governor-General.  As per the CAG: Chapter VI- Distribution of Power

Article 18. So that no conflict of interest may occur, and no hostile attempt to take over the province may succeed, no citizen may simultaneously hold the post of Sénéchal or Lord Warden alongside the post of Governor-General without a resolution of l'Etats expressly permitting this combination. The posts of Sénéchal and Lord Warden may be held simultaneously.

One reason for this is listed in Chapter IV- The Governor-General

Article 16. The Governor-General is the representative of the King of Talossa, and as such, shall have veto power over all laws of l'Etats. This veto may be overturned by a two third vote of l'Etats. The Governor-General is appointed by the King pursuant to the Organic Law.

Thus if one were to be Sénéchal and Governor-General -- even if allowed by l'Etats -- that person could double-dip if they were opposed to legislation both on the floor of l'Etats and via a subsequent veto power (as noted, this would not apply to the Lord Warden who is the Senator at the level of the Realm).

[Adam Grigoriu]

Given that situation, I reopen the floor for nominations.

That said, given the text of El Lex and the Cézembrian constitution, something doesn't match up here. El Lex states that the Governor-General, in this context, is the leader of the Council elected by the rest of the Council. The Cézembrian constitution refers to a Governor-General appointed by the King under a provision of the OrgLaw that I cannot find. I'm not a lawyer, and especially not the lawyer for the Government, but that doesn't make much sense.

[Eðo Grischun]

Point of order.

It doesn't make much sense because the Governor-General of Cézembre and the Governor-General of this council are two different things.  Cézembre's Governor-General is the Crown's Cunstaval while this council's Governor-General is the chairman of this council.  El Lexhatx also explains that the council is composed of provincial Executives (ie: Cézembre's Sénéchal) whether called Governor or not. 

If S:r Briga is elected to serve as this council's Governor-General, Sir Siervicül would still be Cezembre's Governor-General (the Cunstaval).

A conflict doesn't exist.

I repeat my nomination of XPB for Governor-General (chairman of this council). :)