Ceadfă del Ziu: Restoration of National Honour

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

The funny thing is I didn't say KR1 was a tyrant. Just made the point that even in Mximo's tradition, not all Kings are worthy of allegiance.

The technical term for how he operated would be "abusive bully and authoritarian". Imagine a country where the forms of multiparty democracy are intact, but the Head of State keeps up a constant stream of threatening invective and slander against opposition politicians, uses politicised investigations against them to drive them out of participation, and maintains a biased electoral system which gives his voting base proportionally unfair power.

Actually, if you're a US citizen, that shouldn't be hard to imagine LMAO.

[Françal I. Lux]

If we had a state religion (theoretically), I would think that the Archbishop of Abbavilla would have the right to suspend or depose the King/Queen based upon his actions, but that would seem too theocratic...

As a Buddhist myself, Christian theocracy is a big fat NO for me.

[Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be]

If we had a state religion (theoretically), I would think that the Archbishop of Abbavilla would have the right to suspend or depose the King/Queen based upon his actions, but that would seem too theocratic...

As a Buddhist myself, Christian theocracy is a big fat NO for me.

Unfortunately, your "Got What I Voted For" award is already in the mail.

[Françal I. Lux]

Unfortunately, your "Got What I Voted For" award is already in the mail.

How clever!

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

@Mximo Malt Once again speaking only as an individual MC I would support this bill assuming the former King acknowledged and assumed responsibility for the facts of what happened.

With that assumption, the return of the nation's founder could be an enormous positive. Generally, I support your efforts at reconciliation.

[Mximo Malt]

@Mximo Malt Once again speaking only as an individual MC I would support this bill assuming the former King acknowledged and assumed responsibility for the facts of what happened.

With that assumption, the return of Ben to the nation he founded could be an enormous positive. Generally, I support your efforts at reconciliation.

I have reached out to him, and have received no reply as of yet. I'll let him clarify his actions once he comes back, if at all.

+++ MISM +++


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[Mximo Malt]

Will this be added to the 1st Clark next month, [mention]Sir Lüc [/mention] ?

[Sir Lüc]

Will this be added to the 1st Clark next month, [mention]Sir Lüc [/mention] ?

The normal process is that a Call for Bills, in which members can put their bills forward to get a vote, is opened by me sometime around the 25th. I'm still waiting for the Túischac'h election to be resolved and for the CRL to then be back to a complete slate before doing that though.

One thing I can tell you already is that you should relabel this proposal, though, because by definition it cannot be called an "act" if it doesn't seek to create, amend or repeal legislation. This kind of nonbinding resolution is more accurately defined as a Sense of the Ziu (in your case, "Sense of the Ziu: Restoration of National Honour" or something similar)

[Mximo Malt]

Will this be added to the 1st Clark next month, [mention]Sir Lüc [/mention] ?

The normal process is that a Call for Bills, in which members can put their bills forward to get a vote, is opened by me sometime around the 25th. I'm still waiting for the Túischac'h election to be resolved and for the CRL to then be back to a complete slate before doing that though.

One thing I can tell you already is that you should relabel this proposal, though, because by definition it cannot be called an "act" if it doesn't seek to create, amend or repeal legislation. This kind of nonbinding resolution is more accurately defined as a Sense of the Ziu (in your case, "Sense of the Ziu: Restoration of National Honour" or something similar)

So how do I change the title to reflect that?

[Sir Lüc]

Will this be added to the 1st Clark next month, [mention]Sir Lüc [/mention] ?

The normal process is that a Call for Bills, in which members can put their bills forward to get a vote, is opened by me sometime around the 25th. I'm still waiting for the Túischac'h election to be resolved and for the CRL to then be back to a complete slate before doing that though.

One thing I can tell you already is that you should relabel this proposal, though, because by definition it cannot be called an "act" if it doesn't seek to create, amend or repeal legislation. This kind of nonbinding resolution is more accurately defined as a Sense of the Ziu (in your case, "Sense of the Ziu: Restoration of National Honour" or something similar)

So how do I change the title to reflect that?

You can edit the original post, and changing the title on that will change the title of the whole thread.

I noticed one additional thing in the meantime - your signature on the proposal is usually written in Talossan, using the word "Ureu q'estadra så" (or "Noi urent..." if you get any cosponsors), with every sponsor listed underneath in the format Name Surname (MC-Party abbr.) or Name Surname (Senator-Provincial abbr.) as appropriate.

In your case, therefore:

Ureu q'estadra så,



Mximo Malt (MC-IDT)

(But I generally take care of formatting sponsors myself when making the Clark, if there are any issues)

[Mximo Malt]

Will this be added to the 1st Clark next month, [mention]Sir Lüc [/mention] ?

The normal process is that a Call for Bills, in which members can put their bills forward to get a vote, is opened by me sometime around the 25th. I'm still waiting for the Túischac'h election to be resolved and for the CRL to then be back to a complete slate before doing that though.

One thing I can tell you already is that you should relabel this proposal, though, because by definition it cannot be called an "act" if it doesn't seek to create, amend or repeal legislation. This kind of nonbinding resolution is more accurately defined as a Sense of the Ziu (in your case, "Sense of the Ziu: Restoration of National Honour" or something similar)

So how do I change the title to reflect that?

You can edit the original post, and changing the title on that will change the title of the whole thread.

I noticed one additional thing in the meantime - your signature on the proposal is usually written in Talossan, using the word "Ureu q'estadra så" (or "Noi urent..." if you get any cosponsors), with every sponsor listed underneath in the format Name Surname (MC-Party abbr.) or Name Surname (Senator-Provincial abbr.) as appropriate.

In your case, therefore:

Ureu q'estadra så,



Mximo Malt (MC-IDT)

(But I generally take care of formatting sponsors myself when making the Clark, if there are any issues)

All done! It should be good for the Clericus/Clark now!


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[Xheralt Del’Encradeir]

I think probably a first step would be re-opening a conversation with the former king, and asking if this is something he's still interested in.  When he broached the subject a couple of years ago, people were mostly only open to his return if he was willing to take some accountability for his behavior.  But he might be ready to do that to some degree, and re-enter our community as a citizen.  He's 60 years old and still alive, so he's already defied the prophecy that said he would die at 59.  Maybe that's when he'll be ready to talk about it.

Over the years, a lot of people have accepted responsibility for their role in past events.  For example, His Grace, Duke John, made a speech about how the Kingdom should have reached out more to the Republic in the time of schism and worked to close that breach earlier, and apologizing on behalf of the country for how former King Robert treated them while they were citizens.  And Marti-Pair and Ieremiah apologized for taking control of the Talossan webspaces when founding the Republic.  The Seneschal has publicly apologized for her attitude and treatment of others prior to her election as senator.  I have apologized for my treatment of a former citizen.

Former King Robert did everything possible to try to usurp control from the people when they started to drift away from him.  When he lost, he tried to bring Talossa to the ground.  Maybe he's ready to talk about that.

I disagree with your use of the word "usurp", because, from his standpoint, it was other people trying to usurp control of his creation from him! Can we kindly use less charged language?  Each side has much to apologize for, demanding apology while giving none in return is NOT the way to go.  Call it a wash and move on.  It's all relative, anyway; one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Following the Independence Day lunch with Mic'hel and all-too-brief meeting of Mximo, I telephoned Ben.  He stated that he has no intent or desire to "force his way back in", but that if invited he would be interested in coming back.  I am naturally willing to act as intermediary.  This legislation, or something like it, would serve as an excellent gauge to the Regipat's willingness to allow this.

Though maybe it does need to be reframed a little.  I'm mulling over my thoughts.

His concern of course is to not be subjected to an overtly hostile environment, there being easily a half dozen Quator Astor citizens still at least semi-active here who despise him viscerally; his impression from his last attempt at reconciliation was that those people were still "in charge" and absolutely blacklisting him.  I think this "Ship of Theseus" has changed enough planks to be different enough, while of course maintaining the same overall shape. 

Let's at least resolve to be civil.

[Mximo Malt]

I think probably a first step would be re-opening a conversation with the former king, and asking if this is something he's still interested in.  When he broached the subject a couple of years ago, people were mostly only open to his return if he was willing to take some accountability for his behavior.  But he might be ready to do that to some degree, and re-enter our community as a citizen.  He's 60 years old and still alive, so he's already defied the prophecy that said he would die at 59.  Maybe that's when he'll be ready to talk about it.

Over the years, a lot of people have accepted responsibility for their role in past events.  For example, His Grace, Duke John, made a speech about how the Kingdom should have reached out more to the Republic in the time of schism and worked to close that breach earlier, and apologizing on behalf of the country for how former King Robert treated them while they were citizens.  And Marti-Pair and Ieremiah apologized for taking control of the Talossan webspaces when founding the Republic.  The Seneschal has publicly apologized for her attitude and treatment of others prior to her election as senator.  I have apologized for my treatment of a former citizen.

Former King Robert did everything possible to try to usurp control from the people when they started to drift away from him.  When he lost, he tried to bring Talossa to the ground.  Maybe he's ready to talk about that.

I disagree with your use of the word "usurp", because, from his standpoint, it was other people trying to usurp control of his creation from him! Can we kindly use less charged language?  Each side has much to apologize for, demanding apology while giving none in return is NOT the way to go.  Call it a wash and move on.  It's all relative, anyway; one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Following the Independence Day lunch with Mic'hel and all-too-brief meeting of Mximo, I telephoned Ben.  He stated that he has no intent or desire to "force his way back in", but that if invited he would be interested in coming back.  I am naturally willing to act as intermediary.  This legislation, or something like it, would serve as an excellent gauge to the Regipat's willingness to allow this.

Though maybe it does need to be reframed a little.  I'm mulling over my thoughts.

His concern of course is to not be subjected to an overtly hostile environment, there being easily a half dozen Quator Astor citizens still at least semi-active here who despise him viscerally; his impression from his last attempt at reconciliation was that those people were still "in charge" and absolutely blacklisting him.  I think this "Ship of Theseus" has changed enough planks to be different enough, while of course maintaining the same overall shape. 

Let's at least resolve to be civil.

Well said, S:reu Conă. Well said.

- MM

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Following the Independence Day lunch with Mic'hel and all-too-brief meeting of Mximo, I telephoned Ben.  He stated that he has no intent or desire to "force his way back in", but that if invited he would be interested in coming back.  I am naturally willing to act as intermediary.  This legislation, or something like it, would serve as an excellent gauge to the Regipat's willingness to allow this.

Thank you Xheralt for reaching out to him. Based on this very early but apparent positive interest by Ben in coming back I would like to ask @Mximo Malt if I could be a co-sponsor (for myself and not as official Green Party). Ben's return and reconciliation with his creation would be a positive in my opinion and I'd be pleased to assist.

[Mximo Malt]

Following the Independence Day lunch with Mic'hel and all-too-brief meeting of Mximo, I telephoned Ben.  He stated that he has no intent or desire to "force his way back in", but that if invited he would be interested in coming back.  I am naturally willing to act as intermediary.  This legislation, or something like it, would serve as an excellent gauge to the Regipat's willingness to allow this.

Thank you Xheralt for reaching out to him. Based on this very early but apparent positive interest by Ben in coming back I would like to ask @Mximo Malt if I could be a co-sponsor (for myself and not as official Green Party). Ben's return and reconciliation with his creation would be a positive in my opinion and I'd be pleased to assist.

That's very awesome! I'll tweak it to reflect this.

- MM

[King Txec]

An interesting development on Independence Day.

-Txec R

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Given that Talossa's transgender community is now large and prominent in public life, perhaps someone should ask Ben Madison whether he still holds to the absolute contempt he expressed for that community in previous decades.

[Béneditsch Ardpresteir]

In fact, I'd like to co-sponsor the Bill, if possible.

Further, in the future I'd like to moot a bill wherein former Rulers are automatically granted a Dukedom.

-BenArd

[King Txec]

I would veto any bill that required me to grant any title of nobility to anyone. The granting of honors is a royal perogative. Even if Ben were to return, he will not receive any honors just because of who he once was.

-Txec R

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I am reluctant to jump right into this with both feet, since I think there's still a lot of raw feelings on both sides. However, maybe this is the start of something?

Personally, I would really rather we had another conversation with him before we got right to voting. I would be happy to authorize an account for him if he would be willing to come chat with us.