Who is the Official Opposition?

Started by Breneir Tzaracomprada, Yesterday at 08:21:00 PM

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Breneir Tzaracomprada

@Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP

Mr. Speaker, this is an honest curiosity that arises from the agreement by the URL to abstain on votes of confidence. I thought we had passed some kind of changes to the rules concerning the Official Opposition but it failed to pass the Senats. The last reference to an official definition I can find comes from 53RZ10 The Leader of the Opposition (Restoration) Bill authored by Miestra Schiva:

QuoteMembers of the Cosâ who (in a given session of the Cosa) have voted NON on the most recent Vote of Confidence, or intend to do so on the next Vote of Confidence, shall be known as El Contrapharti Fieir da Sieu Maxhestà, or "His Majesty's Loyal Opposition" in English, or in short "El Contrapharti / The Opposition". Unless and until the members of the Opposition decide otherwise by majority vote, the "Leader of the Opposition" shall be the leader of the party with the most Cosa seats assigned to MCs who voted NON on the last Vote of Confidence.

Most members of the URL abstained on the confidence vote last month while the Green Party voted entirely against confidence. Based on the law as defined by 53RZ10, until the majority vote by members of the Opposition to state otherwise (which I assume could be arranged quickly) does this mean that the Green Party is the official Opposition?
Leader, Green Party
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Joy is that leaky bucket that lets me sometimes carry half a song. But what I intend for us, our claim, that joy is the justice we must give ourselves. -J. Drew Lanham

Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP

It's not in my position to interpret the law, but in my unqualified layman's opinion that seems to be the case.

Personally I believe it would be more reasonable to define the Opposition as whoever has not voted ÜC or does not intend to vote ÜC on the VoC instead (i.e. everyone who isn't explicitly part of the Government; this would match my intuitive understanding of what "opposition" means in parliamentary contexts). Perhaps something that this Cosă should look into.
Editing posts is my thing. My bad.
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Breneir Tzaracomprada

Quote from: Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP on Yesterday at 09:15:02 PMIt's not in my position to interpret the law, but in my unqualified layman's opinion that seems to be the case.

Personally I believe it would be more reasonable to define the Opposition as whoever has not voted ÜC or does not intend to vote ÜC on the VoC instead (i.e. everyone who isn't explicitly part of the Government; this would match my intuitive understanding of what "opposition" means in parliamentary contexts). Perhaps something that this Cosă should look into.

Sincere respect for this response, Marcel. I agree there needs to be some reworking of that definition.

In the meantime, the Greens will do our best as HM Loyal Opposition.
Leader, Green Party
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Joy is that leaky bucket that lets me sometimes carry half a song. But what I intend for us, our claim, that joy is the justice we must give ourselves. -J. Drew Lanham

Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be

From my understanding, the precedent -- exemplified as recently as last term when Baron Davinescu consistently voted against confidence, while other members of his party would sometimes vote in favor -- was that because at least one part of the Progressive Alliance was part of the Opposition, they were the largest Opposition party, and therefore as their leader, S:reu Sant-Enogat was LOTO.

As Sir Marti-Pair voted Non on the last Clark, under the precedent, the URL qualifies as "the Opposition" for the moment still.

That being said, as someone who has authored legislation intended to make approximately the same change, I think it should be clear I think the current definition is bonkers, so yes, we should make a change.
"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to god." - Thomas Jefferson

"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, but your government only when it deserves it." - Mark Twain

"Democracy is not a tearing down; it is a building up. ... It does not destroy; it fulfills. It is the consummation of all theories of government, the spirit of which all the nations of the earth must yield. It is the great constructive course of the ages." - Calvin Coolidge

Breneir Tzaracomprada

Quote from: Mic'haglh Autófil, O.Be on Yesterday at 11:43:54 PMFrom my understanding, the precedent -- exemplified as recently as last term when Baron Davinescu consistently voted against confidence, while other members of his party would sometimes vote in favor -- was that because at least one part of the Progressive Alliance was part of the Opposition, they were the largest Opposition party, and therefore as their leader, S:reu Sant-Enogat was LOTO.

As Sir Marti-Pair voted Non on the last Clark, under the precedent, the URL qualifies as "the Opposition" for the moment still.

That being said, as someone who has authored legislation intended to make approximately the same change, I think it should be clear I think the current definition is bonkers, so yes, we should make a change.

As the current Opposition Leader under the current definition, as stated in actual law not precedent, I reiterate my support for changes that clarify the definition.
Leader, Green Party
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Joy is that leaky bucket that lets me sometimes carry half a song. But what I intend for us, our claim, that joy is the justice we must give ourselves. -J. Drew Lanham

Sir Lüc

I have marked S:r Tzaracomprada as LOTO on the Database, since by the letter of the law the Opposition is presently comprised of 28 Green seats and Sir MPF.

For the purposes of holding an early vote to select a different LOTO, the law says that the Opposition is also formed by MCs who "intend to [vote NON] on the next Vote of Confidence". I am ruling that means they must cast a NON vote either on the Database or on Wittenberg, but that it is not necessary to wait for the vote to close for them to be considered as members of the Opposition, as long as they do not change their VoC vote later.

Therefore, it would be enough for URL MCs holding 29 seats to vote NON on this month's VoC *now*, and that would make them eligible to select a different LOTO by holding a public vote on this board. That selection would be recognised immediately.
Sir Lüc da Schir, UrB
Secretary of State / Secretar d'Estat

Sir Lüc

Regarding S:r Autófil's observation, it is completely fair to point out that in the past term the Green Party would have outranked the Progressive Alliance among the Opposition in three VoCs out of six; however, that should not be taken as binding precedent, as there really is no grey area or empty space in the law as written.

Had the error been pointed out then, I would have ruled the same way, while instead, S:r Sant-Enogat was marked as LOTO from the get-go based on the election results, and I never noticed S:r Tzaracomprada should have taken over during the Second and Fifth Clark based on the results of the First and Fourth Clark VoCs respectively.

I would say I'll pay more attention in the future, but I imagine the law will be changed anwyay.
Sir Lüc da Schir, UrB
Secretary of State / Secretar d'Estat

Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC

If the URL are not actively attempting to bring the Government down - which we are not, by the terms of the current agreement - I'm not fussed if we no longer count as "the Opposition". Criticism and feedback from the crossbenches is not a problem.

¡LADINTSCHIÇETZ-VOI - rogetz-mhe cacsa!
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Breneir Tzaracomprada

Quote from: Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC on Today at 01:33:51 PMIf the URL are not actively attempting to bring the Government down - which we are not, by the terms of the current agreement - I'm not fussed if we no longer count as "the Opposition". Criticism and feedback from the crossbenches is not a problem.

Cool. @Sir Lüc would you be the correct person to update the Witt badge? It still shows Mic'haglh as the Opposition Leader.
Leader, Green Party
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Joy is that leaky bucket that lets me sometimes carry half a song. But what I intend for us, our claim, that joy is the justice we must give ourselves. -J. Drew Lanham