Ziu Reform Possibilities

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

I know that we keep citizenship eligibility at 14 for historical reasons but we should consider a minimum age limit for being an MZ. I would suggest 18 or 21 (if this does not run afoul of the OrgLaw). If we are serious about making  structural improvements to the Ziu then it might be worth considering whether 14 or 16 is generally just too young to effectively participate in national decision-making.

ADDED: I mean no offense to our youngest citizens but wanted to broach the topic.

In my humble opinion, this would be terrible.

I totally get why we might not want to have minors here at all (even though it would be unfortunate given our founding), but assuming they are here, why would we not want them to participate in the thing most people find the most interesting? The stakes of "national decision making" are, all things considered, much to low to allow for that.

First, thanks for responding Ian.

I actually do support a higher minimum age for citizenship, I do suspect though, for some, it is a non-starter. But there are other ways for our youngest citizens to be involved...political parties could still accept them as members, etc. Honestly, the proposal comes from observing recent events as I think the actions of a few of our younger members of national politics have been motivated by immaturity. A period for participation as an observer for those between the ages of 14 and 16 or 18 would allow for some learning and maturation before entry into the nation's parliament. I do not think it is a good idea to throw 14 years (especially) into a nation's political fray as soon as they are citizens.

[Mximo Malt]

When did we start doing this?

When did we start doing what, exactly?

Reduced Cosă seats

It is not a good look for potential voters that you apparently didn't have a good look at 62RZ11 before you voted on it

Then I just won't seek a second term, and I'd bet you'd loooooooooooove that! How bout them apples!?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

We use RCV for the Senats, but I don't know how you have parliamentary democracy without party politics.  Also that might be a bridge too far for right now.  I don't know, though?

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

We use RCV for the Senats, but I don't know how you have parliamentary democracy without party politics.  Also that might be a bridge too far for right now.  I don't know, though?

Parties will always exist, but I guess it's a matter of how institutionalised they are.

With the current closed party list voting system, parties are strongly institutionalised, and ultimate power ultimately rests with party leadership.

With a more open and direct voting system, hopefully power would be transfered to the voters and the MZs they elect, regardless of party affiliation (if any). I've spent several years researching proportional voting systems that do not require strongly institutionalised parties to function, and I feel like they might bring a positive change to the current culture.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

We have seen in recent elections that many Talossans are confused or offended by ranked-choice voting for single seats (in the Senäts). Ranked-choice voting for multiple seats - while a great system in many ways - is far harder to explain to a hostile nation, especially its counting system.

The other problem with STV at a Talossan level is that either you'd have to divide the country into 3 or 4 voting districts (making gerrymandering possible), or elect 20 MCs at large, which would mean a "tablecloth ballot".

A possible simpler candidate-focused system would be that used in Kosovo, where you vote for a party and also for one person on that party list. So the seats are proportionate between parties but if a party gets X seats, they go to the top X individual vote winners

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Then I just won't seek a second term, and I'd bet you'd loooooooooooove that! How bout them apples!?

Tell you what, Max, why don't you join the URL. We can mentor you.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

From my (limited) research, though, it seems like the overhang can get pretty bad.

Not in the NZ system. I think this parliament we've had the biggest overhang ever (3 seats out of 120), because Te Pāti Māori won 6 of the Māori districts with 3% of the national list vote.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

BTW, I am actively offended by the idea of depriving younger citizens of political rights. Talossa started as a child's fantasy endeavour, and it is repugnant for adults to try to eliminate kids from something they started because adults can't be trusted.

But I'm in favour of age limits for being an MC, though. An upper age limit. We can't be like the "Boomers who won't let go", I think that once you hit 40 or something you should only be able to run for a Senäts seat

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

BTW, I am actively offended by the idea of depriving younger citizens of political rights. Talossa started as a child's fantasy endeavour, and it is repugnant for adults to try to eliminate kids from something they started because adults can't be trusted.

But I'm in favour of age limits for being an MC, though. An upper age limit. We can't be like the "Boomers who won't let go", I think that once you hit 40 or something you should only be able to run for a Senäts seat

I don't see any arguments against a lower age limit while supporting an upper age limit being logically consistent. I support both, we have recent experience that demonstrates why allowing some time for observation and maturation would be beneficial. With an eye on US Politics (I am thinking of Diane Feinstein, Ruth Bader Ginsberg, and Thomas Keane among other examples) I am sympathetic to a characterizing of the problem of gerontocratic leadership as "Boomers won't let go" though.

[King Txec]

One of the things that makes Talossa fun and unique is the fact that new citizens can just jump on in and legislate or do practically anything they want to without worrying that someone is going to say "hey, you're too young." I would not be in favor of disallowing our younger citizens the opportunity to join the Cosa, just like I'm not really in favor of an upper age limit also. We should be encouraging people, not limiting based on an arbitrary number like age.

-Txec R

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

We should be encouraging people, not limiting based on an arbitrary number like age.

Of course you'd say that, Methuselah

(for legal reasons, this is a joke, Txec is pretty much my age)

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Lol, that was a good one, Miestra.

I have mentioned this in responding to Ian. Serving in the Ziu is just one way of participation among many many other opportunities for involvement in politics. I have criticized it in the past but one benefit of our politics-heavy culture is the widespread opportunities for participation. Parliamentary service should call for a higher standard.

[King Txec]

We should be encouraging people, not limiting based on an arbitrary number like age.

Of course you'd say that, Methuselah

(for legal reasons, this is a joke, Txec is pretty much my age)

-Txec R

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Lol, that was a good one, Miestra.

I have mentioned this in responding to Ian. Serving in the Ziu is just one way of participation among many many other opportunities for involvement in politics. I have criticized it in the past but one benefit of our politics-heavy culture is the widespread opportunities for participation. Parliamentary service should call for a higher standard.

I agree, although not about the age thing.  It's certainly possible that we should have ethical standards.