Ziu Reform Possibilities

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Not directly related to what's going on here right now, but since it seems like we'll be going ahead with cyclical party lists, I've added cyclical tie-breaks to my SPAV tabulator. I have yet to hear anything about it... feel free to tell me if I should stop referencing it here.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

What kind of feedback were you looking for?  Should a bunch of us try it out?

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

What kind of feedback were you looking for?  Should a bunch of us try it out?

It's meant to illustrate how SPAV tabulation works in practice, in case my explanation of it in this thread was too abstract or anything. The example file provided is based on the most recent election, and the output is what this Cosă would've looked like under 20-seat SPAV, provided that all voters chose to vote along partisan lines.

The table shows total (weighted) vote counts per candidate (row) and round (column), and a winning candidate is highlighted in yellow.

EDIT: Then again, since it isn't really the focus of this thread right now, I might as well stop linking to it for now.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Not directly related to what's going on here right now, but since it seems like we'll be going ahead with cyclical party lists, I've added cyclical tie-breaks to my SPAV tabulator. I have yet to hear anything about it... feel free to tell me if I should stop referencing it here.

I checked it out but wasn't sure how to use it, Marcel.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

Not directly related to what's going on here right now, but since it seems like we'll be going ahead with cyclical party lists, I've added cyclical tie-breaks to my SPAV tabulator. I have yet to hear anything about it... feel free to tell me if I should stop referencing it here.

I checked it out but wasn't sure how to use it, Marcel.

Upload a ballot file -- you can download an example file based on the December 2025 election (I just noticed it was broken, I fixed it now), enter the turnout (last election's turnout was 105), select a tie-break method, and you should be getting the results.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Not directly related to what's going on here right now, but since it seems like we'll be going ahead with cyclical party lists, I've added cyclical tie-breaks to my SPAV tabulator. I have yet to hear anything about it... feel free to tell me if I should stop referencing it here.

I checked it out but wasn't sure how to use it, Marcel.

Upload a ballot file -- you can download an example file based on the December 2025 election (I just noticed it was broken, I fixed it now), enter the turnout (last election's turnout was 105), select a tie-break method, and you should be getting the results.

Excellent, thanks.

[Françal I. Lux]

Not directly related to what's going on here right now, but since it seems like we'll be going ahead with cyclical party lists, I've added cyclical tie-breaks to my SPAV tabulator. I have yet to hear anything about it... feel free to tell me if I should stop referencing it here.

I've had a chance to try the simulator as well and I'm intrigued. I'll look more into this as a serious alternative to our current system. I agree with Baron Davinescu that we probably will have to wait to implement this reform until the next term, but let's keep the idea alive until then.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

Okay, so if everyone's agreed that what we're looking for is a series of OrgLaw and Lexhatx amendments that:

a) will mandate that all Members of the Cosa will be candidates who stood at the election (given some relaxation of seat limits);
b) will allow either a closed-list or open-list system to be established by normal statutory law (by the 63rd Cosa onwards);

then I think we can press forward with this. But I just want to make sure we're all on the same page with this.

[Mic’haglh Autófil, O.Be]

Okay, so if everyone's agreed that what we're looking for is a series of OrgLaw and Lexhatx amendments that:

a) will mandate that all Members of the Cosa will be candidates who stood at the election (given some relaxation of seat limits);
b) will allow either a closed-list or open-list system to be established by normal statutory law (by the 63rd Cosa onwards);

then I think we can press forward with this. But I just want to make sure we're all on the same page with this.

I'm on board with this -- at least at first glance, it doesn't seem like the proposed changes would prohibit a more candidate-centric electoral method, whether that's the standard open-list system you and I have been advocating, or something like Sir Marcel's SPAV method. As long as the statute in question describes how the list is to be ordered for the purposes of awarding seats under the proposed Org.IV.2.2; maybe the proposed text should clarify that this list shall be ordered as determined by law? It mentions reaching the bottom of the list, going back to the top, etc., but does not clarify if the list is simply ordered as submitted, or assembled by the results of the election, or what. Explicitly having some flexibility there will ease the adoption of a new method, I think.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Here's an updated version of the bill, incorporating Tafi's notes.  Interested also to hear from Miestra or Mic'haglh.

The Democracy Act and Amendment

Whereas the Ziu believes in further perfecting our democracy, and accordingly wishes to better establish its belief that the outcome of a vote should match the will of the voters as much as possible, and that the people should be in charge of that outcome and not party bosses, and that there is room for parties of every size,

Part I: Ironclad Party Lists

THEREFORE, the second section of Article IV of the Organic Law, which currently reads:

Based on the final results of the General Election, the Secretary of State shall calculate the apportionment of seats among the parties, hereinafter referred to as "party seats".
    1. The party seats shall total 200, or another number which may be set by law, with the provisos that any such change will not take effect until the next election following the passage of a calendar year; and that this number may never be less than twice the number of Senators minus one.
    2. Each party shall receive a percentage of party seats as equal as possible to its percentage of the popular vote, but each party shall receive a whole number of seats, and in turn, each party shall assign these seats to individuals, in accordance with law. The Secretary of State shall employ whatever mathematical formulae and calculations in the apportionment of seats as are set by law, or, in the absence of such law, as will best reflect the intentions of this Organic Law. The Uppermost Cort shall be the final judge in case of mathematical disputes.
    3. Only registered political parties may obtain party seats. Parties which win votes but are not registered may not assume their seats in the Cosa until they register. The process to register a party shall be defined by law. The Secretary of State may request from all parties a registration fee, to be set by law, to cover the cost of the election. This fee shall be uniform for all parties.

shall be amended to read:

Based on the final results of the General Election, the Secretary of State shall calculate the apportionment of seats among the parties, hereinafter referred to as "party seats".
    1. The party seats shall total 200, or another number which may be set by law, with the provisos that any such change will not take effect until the next election following the passage of a calendar year; and that this number may never be less than twice the number of Senators minus one.
    2. Each party shall receive a percentage of party seats as equal as possible to its percentage of the popular vote, but each party shall receive a whole number of seats, and in turn, the Secretary of State shall assign these seats to a numerically-ordered list of candidates nominated by that party. The Secretary of State shall assign seats by assigning a seat to the first person on a party's list. If the party won more than one seat, then the Secretary of State will assign a seat to the next person on their list, and so on until the end of the party's list. The Secretary of State will then return to the top of the list, and continue in the same manner until all of the party's seats have been assigned.
    3. No person shall hold more seats in the Cosă than forty times the total number of seats in the Cosă divided by three times the number of ballots cast for the Cosa in the most recent General Election, rounded up to the next integer.
    4. Any seats which cannot be assigned under the procedure described in this section may be filled by the King according to his own best judgment, or left vacant.
    5. The Secretary of State shall employ whatever mathematical formulae and calculations in the apportionment of seats as are set by law, or, in the absence of such law, as will best reflect the intentions of this Organic Law. The Uppermost Cort shall be the final judge in case of mathematical disputes.
    6. Only registered political parties may obtain party seats. Parties which win votes but are not registered may not assume their seats in the Cosa until they register. The process to register a party shall be defined by law. The Secretary of State may request from all parties a registration fee, to be set by law, to cover the cost of the election. This fee shall be uniform for all parties.

FURTHERMORE, the third section of Article IV of the Organic Law, which currently reads:

In the case of vacant party seats occurring between elections, the Secretary of State shall inform the King and the leader of whatever party held the vacant seat. The King shall appoint a replacement to each vacancy. If the seat belonged to a party with a functioning party leader, the King must appoint as a replacement whichever person shall be so designated by that party's leader. If there is no functioning party leader, or if the party leader refuses to designate a replacement, the King shall appoint the replacement according to his own best judgment.

shall be amended to read:

In the case of vacant party seats occurring between elections, the Secretary of State shall inform the King and the leader of whatever party held the vacant seat. The Secretary of State shall redistribute all of that party's seats among the remaining eligible candidates on that party's list in the same manner described in the second section, above. If no eligible candidate remains on that party's list, whether by vacation, ineligibility, or the operation of the maximum seats provision, the King may assign the seat according to his own best judgment, or leave it vacant.

FURTHERMORE, there shall be a new second subsubsection of the third subsection of the second section of Title B of El Lexhatx, B.2.3.2, which shall read:

2.3.2. The Secretary of State shall confirm to their satisfaction that all citizens appearing on a party list consent to do so, prior to the printing or publication of the ballot. Only citizens so consenting shall be recognized as being on a party's list for the purposes of Lexh.B.2.3, and only said citizens will appear on the party's list as shown on the ballot.

FURTHERMORE, the first subsection of the fourth section of Title H of El Lexhatx, H.4.1, which currently reads

4.1. No person shall hold more seats in the Cosa than ten times the total number of seats in the Cosa divided by the number of ballots cast for the Cosa in the most recent General Election, rounded up to the next integer.
4.1.1. The total number of party seats is twenty.

shall be amended to read

4.1. The total number of party seats is twenty.

FURTHERMORE, the first subsubsubsection of the first subsubsection of the third subsection of the second section of Title B of El Lexhatx, B.2.3.1.1, which currently reads

2.3.1.1. The party leader may assign seats to any eligible citizen(s) they see fit, so long as the following criteria are met:
2.3.1.1.1. The party's internal procedures are followed
2.3.1.1.2. No one who was not named on the list is assigned more seats than any eligible citizen who was named on the list
2.3.1.1.3. The total number of seats awarded to those not on the list does not exceed 1/3 of all seats won by the party
2.3.1.1.4. No person occupies more than the maximum legal number of seats.

shall be deleted in its entirety.

FURTHERMORE, the third subsection of the second section of Title B of El Lexhatx, B.2.3, which currently reads,

2.3 The ballot must also include, for each party contesting the election, a 50-word (or less) statement of the general aims and views of the party, and a list of citizens to whom the party intends to award Cosa seats. If a party does not submit a candidate list to the Secretary of State before the election, the party leader is assigned all seats won, and seats which cannot be held by the Party Leader are forfeited.

shall be amended to read

2.3 The ballot must also include, for each party contesting the election, a 50-word (or less) statement of the general aims and views of the party, and a list in numerical order of citizens to whom the party intends to award Cosa seats. If a party does not submit a candidate list to the Secretary of State before the election, the party leader is assigned all seats won, and any seats which cannot be held by the Party Leader may be filled by the King according to his own best judgment, or left vacant.

FURTHERMORE, the third subsection of the second section of Title B of El Lexhatx, B.2.3.1, which currently reads

2.3.1. Before the conclusion of the first Clark, each party leader must submit to the Secretary of State a report containing the distribution of the seats won in the election.

shall be amended to read

2.3.1. Before the conclusion of the first Clark, the Secretary of State shall publish the distribution of seats among the candidates of each party, as calculated under the procedure described in Article IV of the Organic Law.

FURTHERMORE, subsection 2.3.1.2 of the third subsection of the second section of Title B of El Lexhatx, B.2.3.1.2, which currently reads

2.3.1.2. Any person assigned a seat as above may decline to take their seats in which case they will be reallocated according to the criteria of B.2.3.1.1.

shall be amended to read

2.3.1.2. Any person assigned a seat may decline to take their seats, in which case the Secretary of State shall redistribute that party's seats among the remaining candidates on the party's list in the manner described in the Organic Law.

FURTHERMORE, subsection 2.3.1.3 of the third subsection of the second section of Title B of El Lexhatx, B.2.3.1.3, which currently reads

2.3.1.3. If a party cannot assign all of their seats under the criteria of B.2.3.1.1., the additional seats are forfeited.

shall be deleted in its entirety.

Part II: Standards of the Cosa

FURTHERMORE, the fourth section of Article IV of the Organic Law, which currently reads:

1. In addition to the seats apportioned between parties after a General Election, the Secretary of State shall assign one Cosa seat to any citizen who becomes eligible to vote after the most recent Election Deadline but before the dissolution of the Cosa, upon the request of such citizen, up to a maximum number as this Organic Law might provide. Any additional seat so assigned shall cease to exist should its holder vacate or be removed from the seat and shall not be subject to the procedures for filling vacancies in the Cosa, and shall also cease to exist upon the dissolution of the Cosa.
2. The maximum number of seats that may be assigned to new citizens between general elections shall be 7.5% of the seats apportioned between parties, rounded up to a whole number of seats.

shall be amended to read

The Cosa may impeach any of its members from the Chamber with a two-thirds majority vote and with the approval of the King. Following impeachment, a replacement will be chosen according to the third section of this article, and the impeached member shall not be eligible for reassignment of seats under the terms of this article. Following a failed impeachment, the accused Member of the Cosa may not again be impeached for the same offence, pursuant to the Seventh Covenant of the Covenant of Rights and Freedoms. The former Member of the Cosa is not barred from running for office in future elections as long as the former Member of the Cosa maintains citizenship.

if and only if the vote for ratification of the referendum for 62RZ14 - The Broosking Swing Mitigation Amendment (Reconsideration) fails.  Should the referendum for 62RZ14 - The Broosking Swing Mitigation Amendment (Reconsideration) succeed in ratification by the people, then the new text shall be added to the end of the article as a new section, instead.

FURTHERMORE, the fifth section of Article IV of the Organic Law, which currently reads:

Each person holding one or more seats is a representative known as a "Member of the Cosa" (MC). MCs may not be removed from office except by a two-thirds vote by the Cosa and approval by the King. An MC vacates his seats if he fails to vote on two consecutive Clarks, or if he resigns from office or dies. The seats of any MC who is removed or vacates shall be reassigned according to Section 4, above.

shall be amended to read

Each person holding one or more seats is a representative known as a "Member of the Cosa" (MC). An MC vacates his seats if they fail to vote on two consecutive Clarks, if they resign from office, or if they die. The seats of any MC who is removed or vacates shall be re-assigned according to the third section, above.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN-GC]

This looks like good work. Only quibble here is:

2. Each party shall receive a percentage of party seats as equal as possible to its percentage of the popular vote, but each party shall receive a whole number of seats, and in turn, the Secretary of State shall assign these seats to a numerically-ordered list of candidates nominated by that party. The Secretary of State shall assign seats by assigning a seat to the first person on a party's list. If the party won more than one seat, then the Secretary of State will assign a seat to the next person on their list, and so on until the end of the party's list. The Secretary of State will then return to the top of the list, and continue in the same manner until all of the party's seats have been assigned.

The party list being ranked is a pretty important detail. Consequent amendment to El Lexh 2.3 also:

2.3 The ballot must also include, for each party contesting the election, a 50-word (or less) statement of the general aims and views of the party, and a list in numerical order of citizens to whom the party intends to award Cosa seats. If a party does not submit a candidate list to the Secretary of State before the election, the party leader is assigned all seats won, and seats which cannot be held by the Party Leader are forfeited.

I *think*, given this wording, it would be possible for a future Cosă to bring in an open-list system (although not a fully candidate-based system) by statute. The very simplest form would be to add an additional question to each ballot for each voter to choose one (or more) preferred candidates (either restricted to their preferred party, or otherwise), and for the Secretary of State to reorder each party's list to rank candidates in order of their personal vote. But, @Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP , do you think this would authorise SPAV to be brought in by statute as well?

Finally, is there any appetite for adding something to El Lexh 2.3.2 which states that a party's internal processes for naming their candidates must allow and reflect the democratic input of members, and members have standing to sue in default of this?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

This looks like good work. Only quibble here is:

2. Each party shall receive a percentage of party seats as equal as possible to its percentage of the popular vote, but each party shall receive a whole number of seats, and in turn, the Secretary of State shall assign these seats to a numerically-ordered list of candidates nominated by that party. The Secretary of State shall assign seats by assigning a seat to the first person on a party's list. If the party won more than one seat, then the Secretary of State will assign a seat to the next person on their list, and so on until the end of the party's list. The Secretary of State will then return to the top of the list, and continue in the same manner until all of the party's seats have been assigned.

The party list being ranked is a pretty important detail. Consequent amendment to El Lexh 2.3 also:

2.3 The ballot must also include, for each party contesting the election, a 50-word (or less) statement of the general aims and views of the party, and a list in numerical order of citizens to whom the party intends to award Cosa seats. If a party does not submit a candidate list to the Secretary of State before the election, the party leader is assigned all seats won, and seats which cannot be held by the Party Leader are forfeited.

Thank you!  It was a lot of work, since this change touches on a lot of things.

I have made the suggested changes, as well as adding the notations for any bit of statute being changed to make it easier to read.

Finally, is there any appetite for adding something to El Lexh 2.3.2 which states that a party's internal processes for naming their candidates must allow and reflect the democratic input of members, and members have standing to sue in default of this?

I think that makes sense, but I just haven't had a chance to even begin to think about that.  I think it might surprisingly be one of the trickier things to do.  It's probably going to need to be an Organic change, since if we give free leave for laws that govern how parties work, then we'll need it to not be subject to easy change (since that would effectively make it a lot easier for a majority party to mess with their competition).  Maybe a specific list of standards that are necessary in party processes?

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

But, @Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP , do you think this would authorise SPAV to be brought in by statute as well?

It would not. The phrasings used throughout make it clear that the system has to feature voting for and assigning seats to party lists in some capacity, which SPAV (as well as STV and other candidate-based systems) lacks. I'm generally pretty skeptical of enshrining the minutia of the voting system into the Organic Law directly, rather than deferring these details to statute.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I thought about leaving more of it to statute, but the problem with a difficult compromise bill like this one is that we're each going to have parts that aren't our ideal, and it's important to put them out of reach of statute for it to be credible.

We also do big bills like this very regularly -- the OrgLaw just isn't that hard to modify if there's a real consensus behind the change.