The Big and Clever amendment

[Tierçéu Rôibeardescù]

WHEREAS, I the president of the royal society feel that the society I represent lacks much in the way of legalistic clarity and clear executive mandate in terms of detail, currently only making up 2 short paragraphs of the nations legal code.

WHEREAS I'm sure we could be delegated more powers and mandates over educational matters from our assigned ministry, and as civil servants we are less surseptable to political tides and engagement wims.

WHEREAS, the royal treasury has 7 sections plus 4 sub subsections which is makes our 1 plus subsection look less significant.

WHEREAS, plz gib us shiny rocks and more law and stuff to do to make us feel big and clever.

WHEREAS the following amendment... (TBD)

WHEREAS maybe there should be a more formal but public mechanism for civil servant to be able manner akin to a terpz

[Tierçéu Rôibeardescù]

I raise this to start the discussion and as is quite evident is intended to be modded to suit the outcome of said discussion

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

@Tierçéu Rôibeardescù I recall proposing some kind of ability for terps to be submitted directly to civil servants. I wonder if that effort could be picked up to further the idea you mention in the sixth whereas clause.

[Tierçéu Rôibeardescù]

@Tierçéu Rôibeardescù I recall proposing some kind of ability for terps to be submitted directly to civil servants. I wonder if that effort could be picked up to further the idea you mention in the sixth whereas clause.

the thing about this is possibly its need to be being a kept apart from the ziu/politics as technically we serve his majesty rather then the people?

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

WHEREAS maybe there should be a more formal but public mechanism for civil servant to be able manner akin to a terpz

What kind of help are you looking for?  If you're looking for direction, you can ask your supervising Government official (the Minister of Culture, @Françal I. Lux ).  If you'd like to establish more policies or guidelines, though, I think you should generally just do it.  Or you can do a public consultation if you're just not really sure.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

@Tierçéu Rôibeardescù I recall proposing some kind of ability for terps to be submitted directly to civil servants. I wonder if that effort could be picked up to further the idea you mention in the sixth whereas clause.

the thing about this is possibly its need to be being a kept apart from the ziu/politics as technically we serve his majesty rather then the people?

An excellent point, thank you. I think it would be wise to continue limiting the encroachment of political interests into the civil service. And I think the designing of some kind of facility to question civil servants is possible while considering that concern.

My primary concern in the past has been that we have de facto vacant civil service positions. Or that we have limited mechanisms for accountability for what are very powerful offices. We can see the former with the Permanent Secretary for Humanitarian Aid and International Development (no shade intended just observing the obvious).

Tierçéu, you've touched on an area that has been of interest for me for years. Perhaps at some point in the future I hope you might consider cooperating on this.

[Tierçéu Rôibeardescù]

WHEREAS maybe there should be a more formal but public mechanism for civil servant to be able manner akin to a terpz

What kind of help are you looking for?  If you're looking for direction, you can ask your supervising Government official (the Minister of Culture, @Françal I. Lux ).  If you'd like to establish more policies or guidelines, though, I think you should generally just do it.  Or you can do a public consultation if you're just not really sure.

for this particular point about civil service Terps, its more the point that there is few formal mechanisms for the civil service to be interacted with and  to intact with the state, for example we are unable to post in the ziu,  even to relevant changes in policy (SOS withstanding), there exists no mechanism for the civil service to seek a formal legal opinion thought the courts as I recently found out (AG withstanding). Finally There is no form of accountability or even freedom of information requests built in,  less in the way of needing help rather to be `summonedable` as well as to part of public record.

[Tierçéu Rôibeardescù]

Like i shouldn't have to propose an amendment to be able to flag up a need for structural change to get this put on public record

[Sir Ian Plätschisch]

The fact that this bill was submitted at all is representative of a problem that has plagued Talossa for years; that no one feels like they are allowed to do anything unless they are specifically authorized to do so by law.

President Rôibeardescù, take it to heart that you have authority to act for the King in regard to the Royal Society insofar as it does not contradict Organic or statute law. If you want to increase your educational activities, you are free to do so. If you want to ask His Majesty's government a question on behalf of the Society, you are free to do so (I suppose they wouldn't be obliged to answer although, at least in the current climate, I see no reason why they wouldn't).

"You can just do things" -Jay Yang

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

WHEREAS maybe there should be a more formal but public mechanism for civil servant to be able manner akin to a terpz

What kind of help are you looking for?  If you're looking for direction, you can ask your supervising Government official (the Minister of Culture, @Françal I. Lux ).  If you'd like to establish more policies or guidelines, though, I think you should generally just do it.  Or you can do a public consultation if you're just not really sure.

for this particular point about civil service Terps, its more the point that there is few formal mechanisms for the civil service to be interacted with and  to intact with the state, for example we are unable to post in the ziu,  even to relevant changes in policy (SOS withstanding), there exists no mechanism for the civil service to seek a formal legal opinion thought the courts as I recently found out (AG withstanding). Finally There is no form of accountability or even freedom of information requests built in,  less in the way of needing help rather to be `summonedable` as well as to part of public record.

You are the person in charge of the Royal Society, so you're the one who makes changes in policy.  If you want to make a policy requiring that the Royal Society abide by the rules of Lexh.D.7 for public records requests, then you can just do so.

If you're not sure about what you want to do, you can ask your supervisor, the Royal Society itself, or the nation at large.  But fundamentally you make policy for the Royal Society.  As an example: when I was Clerk of Corts, I was annoyed with the way the records were kept.  There was no way to find anything.  So I just announced a new system, set it up, and made it the rule.  I was the person in charge of cort records, and so I had the authority to do that.  You're in charge of the Royal Society, so you have the authority to do stuff, too.

I don't know why you would need legal advice, but if you did, you'd ask the person whose job it is to give legal advice to government offices: the Avocat-Xheneral (me right now).  If you needed someone appointed to help you specifically, we'd find a deputy and appoint them to the job to do that.

Just do the thing you want.  If you're not sure what you want to do, ask for feedback or suggestions.

[Breneir Tzaracomprada]

Tierçéu, I can share the bill I submitted in the past as an example for a policy concerning the terms question.

[Tierçéu Rôibeardescù]

Whoa there, compadres, I know what I can do and want to do. What I want is more structure. What if i wanted to fold the collage of arms and Büreu del Glheþ and Permanent Secretary of Cultural Development. Technically all have education as part of their mandate; some are more utilised than others; if at all, some are more importent then others. All could be construed as under the remit of advancing and preserving knowledge. Should the libabry of talossa be moved to our remit too? Could we start self-publishing Talossan works?

This is more I want the position to be considered as important and be reflected in law.

Even when we were the university and BEER we had very little oversight or presence, which was why it was so easy to fall out of use and be forgotten about... But should someone not have accidentally made a tit of themselves, assigning someone to BEER in exchange for withdrawal of a vote to remove it, it could have stayed as an institution in its own right and not later have been folded into the Royal Society. It's almost like there should be a formal mechanism for accountability but also clear powers and limitations of civil servants so they don't run wild and cause a scene... like checking if the changes they are making are constitutional before doing so?

Talossas never had an education secretary or minister, yet we talk about lack of knowledge and understanding of Talossa, history, language, unbenosnet changes to key details about ourselves (like is Taco Bell even our national restaurant any more?).

this bill is not asking for permition, its asking for movement, change, clarity. And more than 2 paragraphs.

I kinda dont even care what changes are made, I just want a improvement on our current assignment.

[Tierçéu Rôibeardescù]

Like, somehow we had a director of athletics at the university in the past, yet even the wiki doesn't mention it (I checked all previous versions), aside from Éovart Grischuns ÁrTal's page. Theres present for Sports to be folded in too?  At that point, maybe we could be a university again? Techically as you Say, I could do that and may even be my right to do so... the law would have to change to my wims?


21 June 1998/XIX – University of Talossa chartered... we even have the act of it too... yet not a charter itself actually exists (at least not any more)

[Tierçéu Rôibeardescù]

I don't know why you would need legal advice, but if you did, you'd ask the person whose job it is to give legal advice to government offices: the Avocat-Xheneral (me right now).  If you needed someone appointed to help you specifically, we'd find a deputy and appoint them to the job to do that.

Say, where should the lines be drawn around ethical study? Ai usege in essays ect? there is such thing as too much knolage as indeed Lexh.D.7 does state.

I would argue/question that this is intended to apply "The government of the Kingdom of Talossa has the duty and responsibility to make public information about and held by the government's cabinet ministries and sub offices within the guidelines set below," which the civil service would possibly find a ajaysecent but not necessarily beholden to such requrst, at least as read in this secton alone. we are not considered sub-offices so much as separate entities with ministerial supervison.

I raise this as a example to do with the civil service as a whole also, not just the RS. 

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Whoa there, compadres, I know what I can do and want to do. What I want is more structure.

Right, but we're saying that if you want that, you can just create structure.  Or if you want advice from someone else, you can either ask your supervisor @Françal I. Lux or just open up for public comment.

What if i wanted to fold the collage of arms and Büreu del Glheþ and Permanent Secretary of Cultural Development. Technically all have education as part of their mandate; some are more utilised than others; if at all, some are more importent then others. All could be construed as under the remit of advancing and preserving knowledge.

No.  Those are separate entities established by statute with their own governing bodies.  Your charge is the Royal Society.

Should the libabry of talossa be moved to our remit too?

That's again a question for @Françal I. Lux or possibly me.  I'd want to know what that would mean, why you'd want that, and what you'd do differently or improve.  Right now the Library is a part of the wiki, owned by the Government and administered by a ministry.

Could we start self-publishing Talossan works?

Sure!

I kinda dont even care what changes are made, I just want a improvement on our current assignment.

That's just it: you don't have an assignment.  You're the boss.  If you want to start publishing stuff or making structure, you can do it.

If that degree of power makes you uncomfortable, that's okay, and you can ask for guidance or public comment.  But the power is yours... you're in charge of the Royal Society.

Like, somehow we had a director of athletics at the university in the past, yet even the wiki doesn't mention it (I checked all previous versions), aside from Éovart Grischuns ÁrTal's page.

The wiki only has the information people add to it.  It would certainly be worthwhile to hunt down those details and improve the wiki by adding in the relevant information, and you'd even get to ask for a Day of Observance for such a feat.

Theres present for Sports to be folded in too?  At that point, maybe we could be a university again? Techically as you Say, I could do that and may even be my right to do so... the law would have to change to my wims?

No, the law doesn't accommodate your whims.  But not everything needs to be authorized or directed by the law.  Do stuff that's within your demesne as the Royal Society, to "to conduct and promote research and academic study in all areas of human endeavour."

I don't know why you would need legal advice, but if you did, you'd ask the person whose job it is to give legal advice to government offices: the Avocat-Xheneral (me right now).  If you needed someone appointed to help you specifically, we'd find a deputy and appoint them to the job to do that.

Say, where should the lines be drawn around ethical study? Ai usege in essays ect?

The laws don't have a lot to say around that, except inasmuch as the Covenants might apply.  If you want to establish guidelines for ethical study or the use of AI, then you have a free hand to do so.

I would argue/question that this is intended to apply "The government of the Kingdom of Talossa has the duty and responsibility to make public information about and held by the government's cabinet ministries and sub offices within the guidelines set below," which the civil service would possibly find a ajaysecent but not necessarily beholden to such requrst, at least as read in this secton alone. we are not considered sub-offices so much as separate entities with ministerial supervison.

The Royal Civil Service, of which the Royal Society is a part, is not a cabinet ministry or sub-office.  If you want to voluntarily set official policy for the Royal Society saying that they will nonetheless abide by those same rules, that seems fine to me.  Or to set different ones.

I would love to see the Royal Society become active once more, and I will be very happy to help however I can.  I have plenty of suggestions if you're looking for something to do, but I don't want to step on your toes.  You're empowered to create your own vision of the Society.  Make it into what you think it should be.  I'll be happy to help, either in large ways or just by providing legal advice or promotion your work.