VOTING: The Ranked Choice Constitutional Referendum

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

3) would the Sénéchal of Cézembre be pledging eternal allegiance to John I, even if John I were removed by Organic Law amendment without bringing in the "limited term" - i.e. if he were replaced by another Monarch for Life?

I suppose a compromise could be achieved by a post-abdication or removal Ián Lupúl being nominated as Constable/Governor-General of Cézembre.

[GV]

Where in talossa.ca is this result?

On the Referendum ballot page. I've double-checked the SoS's calculations and they seem accurate.

Thank you.  My bad for not finding it. 

I do not question the SoS' calculations.  When an SoS calls a result 'provisional', I take it as such until a final result is published.

[xpb]

3) would the Sénéchal of Cézembre be pledging eternal allegiance to John I, even if John I were removed by Organic Law amendment without bringing in the "limited term" - i.e. if he were replaced by another Monarch for Life?

I suppose a compromise could be achieved by a post-abdication or removal Ián Lupúl being nominated as Constable/Governor-General of Cézembre.

That could be an additional title I suppose.  Ián Lupúl is already King of Cézembre.

[xpb]

On the subject of Cézembre:

1) when Australia was debating becoming a republic, there was debate on what would happen if individual States insisted on remaining monarchic.
2) what happens if Cézembre pledges allegiance to a different King than that chosen by the nation as a whole?
3) would the Sénéchal of Cézembre be pledging eternal allegiance to John I, even if John I were removed by Organic Law amendment without bringing in the "limited term" - i.e. if he were replaced by another Monarch for Life?

Sorry caught this comment in reverse order.

1) I will need to read up on the Australian debate.  Within the Commonwealth of Nations, Queen Elizabeth II is the head of state of 16 member states, known as the Commonwealth realms, while 33 other members are republics and 5 others have different monarchs.

2) As an example, there are at least a couple of different Popes if one refers to the the ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople by that title.  Hong Kong and Taiwan have different economic models than China but are claimed by some to be one county two systems.

3) King John, in my opinion, which can be overridden by a majority of Cézembreans that would choose to remove me from office, continues to be King of Cézembre until such time as he of his own volition abdicates or passes away.

Typing on my phone while on patrol sorry for any typos.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

3) King John, in my opinion, which can be overridden by a majority of Cézembreans that would choose to remove me from office, continues to be King of Cézembre until such time as he of his own volition abdicates or passes away.

I realise that this has nothing to do with the referendum result anymore, but are the titles of King of Talossa and King of Cézembre separate or is the King of Talossa automatically King of Cézembre ex officio? Was this ever brought up somewhere? In case that King John is forced to abdicate the Talossan throne, would the Cézembrean government then recognise two Kings (???) or would that violate the pledge of eternal allegiance to the Regipäts Talossan? But then again, would not doing so violate the pledge of eternal allegiance to the King?

...sorry for these wild tangents, everyone.

[xpb]

3) King John, in my opinion, which can be overridden by a majority of Cézembreans that would choose to remove me from office, continues to be King of Cézembre until such time as he of his own volition abdicates or passes away.

I realise that this has nothing to do with the referendum result anymore, but are the titles of King of Talossa and King of Cézembre separate or is the King of Talossa automatically King of Cézembre ex officio? Was this ever brought up somewhere? In case that King John is forced to abdicate the Talossan throne, would the Cézembrean government then recognise two Kings (???) or would that violate the pledge of eternal allegiance to the Regipäts Talossan? But then again, would not doing so violate the pledge of eternal allegiance to the King?

...sorry for these wild tangents, everyone.

My apologies as well as I should not continue to respond in this thread, even as it is tantalizing.

[Sir Txec dal Nordselvă, UrB]

Where in talossa.ca is this result?

On the Referendum ballot page. I've double-checked the SoS's calculations and they seem accurate.

Thank you.  My bad for not finding it. 

I do not question the SoS' calculations.  When an SoS calls a result 'provisional', I take it as such until a final result is published.

I don't see anywhere where I declared the results provisional.

[Béneditsch Ardpresteir]

3) King John, in my opinion, which can be overridden by a majority of Cézembreans that would choose to remove me from office, continues to be King of Cézembre until such time as he of his own volition abdicates or passes away.

I realise that this has nothing to do with the referendum result anymore, but are the titles of King of Talossa and King of Cézembre separate or is the King of Talossa automatically King of Cézembre ex officio? Was this ever brought up somewhere? In case that King John is forced to abdicate the Talossan throne, would the Cézembrean government then recognise two Kings (???) or would that violate the pledge of eternal allegiance to the Regipäts Talossan? But then again, would not doing so violate the pledge of eternal allegiance to the King?

...sorry for these wild tangents, everyone.

A referendum of this magnitude should have ideally been carried out during the general election for greater participation and not immediately post the holiday season. One cannot deny that the participation was way lesser than the voter turnout than what was at the last few general elections. Anyone who is surprised by the result, shouldn't be. It serves us right for not being attentive to Talossan affairs.

The King of Cezembre is the King in the North ( ;) )... who also may/ may not be the King of the Regions (substituting 7 Kingdoms) sitting on the Iron Throne.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

Voting has now closed on the referendum. The results are as follows:




Option 1 - an elected head of state wins the referendum.



Dr. Txec dal Nordselvă,
Secretary of State

Acting on behalf of the crown, I wish to formally thank the Secretary of State in the name of King John for his efforts in conducting an election in the middle of the Cosa, which is often a tricky affair and which requires navigating some of the most complex aspects of our laws and traditions.  No one can fault any minor hiccups, particularly not when conducted in good faith and resolved with his usual alacrity.  Secretary of State Dr. Txec Róibeard dal Nordselvă, Esq., O.SPM, SMM should have all of our gratitude for these efforts.  C'estev'iensă tasc'hă ben fäts!

I am also exceedingly pleased with the outcome of the referendum.  Despite a 32% dropoff in turnout, the Talossan people have once again affirmed their preference for the continuation of the monarchy, although opinion remains divided as to the continued role of the monarch.  Since the time I have begun acting on behalf of our monarch, we have begun to see a revival of this aspect of Talossa, and I hope to see the long tradition of Talossan monarchy continue to grow and thrive -- and I hope, too, that His Majesty himself will be able to return to his duties soon.

It is time to further reflect on the many blessings that we have in our country.  A unique and beautiful language, long traditions and institutions that give us a singular place on the world stage, skilled and thoughtful leadership, and the varied and vigorous talents of our people... Talossa is a truly great place and we are so lucky to be here.  No matter our differences of opinion on governance or any other subject, we must always keep our good fortune and fellowship at the fore of our minds.

Long live Talossa, and long live good King John!

              —  Sir Alexandreu, Rexhaint d'Ian Regeu

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

I am also exceedingly pleased with the outcome of the referendum.  Despite a 32% dropoff in turnout, the Talossan people have once again affirmed their preference for the continuation of the monarchy, although opinion remains divided as to the continued role of the monarch.

Excuse me S:reu Rexhaint, but Option 1: "the King of Talossa shall be replaced by an elected Head of State" won the referendum.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

I am also exceedingly pleased with the outcome of the referendum.  Despite a 32% dropoff in turnout, the Talossan people have once again affirmed their preference for the continuation of the monarchy, although opinion remains divided as to the continued role of the monarch.

Excuse me S:reu Rexhaint, but Option 1: "the King of Talossa shall be replaced by an elected Head of State" won the referendum.

In the most direct sense, the most preferred option once others were eliminated was option 1, of course, narrowly beating out the status quo by 34-32.  But first preferences for a monarchy, either ceremonial or traditional, had a similar edge over first preferences for option 1!  I'm not sure how to interpret the addition of a second elected prince if we're breaking things down in this way, since it's a bit orthogonal to the other three options.

There's certainly not an overwhelming mandate for monarchy, but considering the fact that the last referendum which was conducted during a general balloting showed much stronger turnout and much stronger royalist results, I am very well-satisfied with these results.

[Miestră Schivă, UrN]

In the most direct sense, the most preferred option once others were eliminated was option 1, of course, narrowly beating out the status quo by 34-32.  But first preferences for a monarchy, either ceremonial or traditional, had a similar edge over first preferences for option 1!

... and a change from the status quo had a 2-to-1 majority over the status quo.  ;D

Instead of trying to "spin" the numbers - something which the Leader of the Opposition has correctly identified as being a "sore loser" - Talossan monarchists would be well served to try to reach some kind of compromise with those who want an Elected Head of State.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

In the most direct sense, the most preferred option once others were eliminated was option 1, of course, narrowly beating out the status quo by 34-32.  But first preferences for a monarchy, either ceremonial or traditional, had a similar edge over first preferences for option 1!

... and a change from the status quo had a 2-to-1 majority over the status quo.  ;D

Instead of trying to "spin" the numbers - something which the Leader of the Opposition has correctly identified as being a "sore loser" - Talossan monarchists would be well served to try to reach some kind of compromise with those who want an Elected Head of State.

As far as I can see, no one's mind has changed from the last time this question was offered to the nation, three years ago.  The format of the question has changed and fewer votes were cast, but the answer remains the same: most Talossans prefer the monarchy in some form.  I am glad of it.  I believe this fact would be even more clear if the referendum were asked on a general ballot, rather than a midterm one, but time and time again we arrive at the same answer.

I cannot claim to speak for any political group, but I will certainly observe any ideas offered by the Ziu with avid interest.  I have seen some suggestions which amount to adoption of the form of government of the Republic, with a change only in extending the term of their elected president; I am not sure that I could consent to such a proposal, since helping to destroy the monarchy would seem to directly contravene my duty to steward the monarchy which has served our nation so well.  I'd be especially hesitant to destroy the monarchy on the basis of a 51.5% majority!

I have also seen the suggestion to add an additional elected figure to the governmental structure to provide another check against the increasingly centralized power of the Government, which is of interest to me -- the "co-prince" mentioned in the referendum; this seems like an intriguing possibility, although the devil is very much in the details.

Ideally, this will only be the beginning of a discussion and in-depth conversation about possibilities for the future of our shared country.

[Marcel Eðo Pairescu Tafial, UrGP]

most Talossans prefer the monarchy in some form.  [...]  I'd be especially hesitant to destroy the monarchy on the basis of a 51.5% majority!

The whole point of using STV this time is that you cant expect everyone who supports a purely ceremonial monarchy to also support the status quo monarchy. As the voting results have shown, a third of those people would rather have an elected head of state than the status quo. The monarchy as it stands now does not enjoy majority support no matter how you look at the numbers.

Tallying up option 3 and option 4 voters and pretending they form one block is either naive or disingenuous.

[Baron Alexandreu Davinescu]

most Talossans prefer the monarchy in some form.  [...]  I'd be especially hesitant to destroy the monarchy on the basis of a 51.5% majority!

The whole point of using STV this time is that you cant expect everyone who supports a purely ceremonial monarchy to also support the status quo monarchy. As the voting results have shown, a third of those people would rather have an elected head of state than the status quo. The monarchy as it stands now does not enjoy majority support no matter how you look at the numbers.

Tallying up option 3 and option 4 voters and pretending they form one block is either naive or disingenuous.

Indeed, sorting out preferences and ranking them yields a much more granular result and shows 51.5% of respondents to this midterm referendum support a presidency as their preferred outcome versus the status quo when all other other options are eliminated, but also that a majority of respondents prefer as their highest preference that some form of monarchy continue, either in its current form or with emergency/crisis powers.  But further, as the Seneschal points out, a large majority prefers some change as their first preference even as they disagree dramatically about what that change should be.  I wish there were a clear mandate in favor of the monarchy beyond overall topline preference that we continue to be a Kingdom of Talossa, but the topline result is about as sharply divided as one could imagine.